Penalty points!!!!!!!!!

lifebook

Hey all

Just got to the six mark with the penalty points and getting worried.

I have applied for a scottish license to avoid getting more points. Someone told me yesterday that the points carry across now and I wont be able to escape

Can anyone verify this one way or another ?

drdre

No point in applying elsewhere as they come onto your irish licence.Also best solution is slow down and dont get caught again.I have been through that stage and have been VERY close to getting put off the road.

Our man in Havana

No they don't. The scots licence would be clean.
It will be many years before the EU gets up off its' arse and harmonise the points systems EU wide.

But you may open yourself up for fraud if you get caught out.

unkel

drdre wrote:

I have been through that stage and have been VERY close to getting put off the road.

You got away with it. Great news for ya! I'm sure you've learnt your lesson by now. Maybe now it's time you should convince your father that he really shouldn't hold onto several driving licenses issued by a few EU and perhaps other countries too. You both know it's illegal. I just hope you will rectify the situation yourselves resulting in a lenient slap on the wrist, rather than somebody reading this post reporting your fraud. Get on with it.

biko

I was caught speeding and got 80e fine plus 2 points on the licence I produced from another EU country.

Our man in Havana

biko wrote:

I was caught speeding and got 80e fine plus 2 points on the licence I produced from another EU country.

They create ghost licences and store the points on there until the harmonisation of EU points happens.

lifebook

There seems to be conflicting info here

Biko - How did they issue points on to a European license ?

I actually own an apartment in Stirling so I would be considered a resident of sorts there as I spend 100+ days a year there and have done for years.

Jumpy

lifebook wrote:

There seems to be conflicting info here

Biko - How did they issue points on to a European license ?

I actually own an apartment in Stirling so I would be considered a resident of sorts there as I spend 100+ days a year there and have done for years.

See the post above yours.

seamus

Bond-007 wrote:

They create ghost licences and store the points on there until the harmonisation of EU points happens.

That's pretty much it.

The points don't disappear into nothingness. Better still, if you don't hold an Irish licence, any points you get don't expire. The three-year period only begins as soon as the points get applied to your actual licence.

I'm not sure what the story is when you get 12 points applied to your "Ghost" licence, but I imagine you get hauled in front of a court and banned anyway. I don't think it'll be long before we find out.

What is it with Irish people refusing to put their hands up and accept their mistakes, instead trying to find every angle they can to weasel out of their failures?

gyppo

seamus wrote:

What is it with Irish people refusing to put their hands up and accept their mistakes, instead trying to find every angle they can to weasel out of their failures?

That seems to be the underlying reason for nearly half the threads started on here.

peasant

You would be informed of the fact that they just tacked some points onto your "ghost" license though, wouldn't you?

I am not aware of any points on my "ghost" licence, I'm pretty convinced that I didn't do anything to deserve points either, I just want to be sure that I would have been told and that there aren't any sneaky points lurking anywhere that I'm not aware of.

lifebook

seamus wrote:

What is it with Irish people refusing to put their hands up and accept their mistakes, instead trying to find every angle they can to weasel out of their failures?

It aint just us, This would be the same in all countries. Half the UK guys I work with have Irish licenses the other half have their windscreens full of scanners and radar detectors.

godtabh

lifebook wrote:

It aint just us, This would be the same in all countries. Half the UK guys I work with have Irish licenses the other half have their windscreens full of scanners and radar detectors.

If Johnny jumped off a cliff would you?

Just becasue they do it doesnt mean its right or legal

TwoShedsJackson

lifebook wrote:

Hey all

Just got to the six mark with the penalty points and getting worried.

I have applied for a scottish license to avoid getting more points. Someone told me yesterday that the points carry across now and I wont be able to escape

Can anyone verify this one way or another ?

I suppose you could 'escape' by ceasing to do whatever it is you did that caused you to get the points in the first place.

lifebook

Hey Kearnsr

If only I had asked who the moral conscious of boards was, then your reply would mean something but alas I didn't. I didnt say it was right or legal. I simply stated a fact.

In fact everyone forget I asked the question. Kearnsr has made me see the error of speeding law breaking ways and I am determined to never break the speed limit again

Thanks Kearnsr ..........ya right

TwoShedsJackson

lifebook wrote:

Hey Kearnsr

If only I had asked who the moral conscious of boards was, then your reply would mean something but alas I didn't. I didnt say it was right or legal. I simply stated a fact.

In fact everyone forget I asked the question. Kearnsr has made me see the error of speeding law breaking ways and I am determined to never break the speed limit again

Thanks Kearnsr ..........ya right

Wow with a burn that brilliant I wouldn't be surprised if Kearnsr was the one who jumped off a cliff :rolleyes:

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

lifebook wrote:

In fact everyone forget I asked the question. Kearnsr has made me see the error of speeding law breaking ways and I am determined to never break the speed limit again

Thanks Kearnsr ..........ya right

That's seems to be the typical sarcastic tone here from people who just want to find ways around paying penalties or facing up to the fact that they are breaking the law. Why not honestly put your hands up, pay the fine and keep below the speed limit in future?

MrPudding

Paityn Spicy Winery wrote:

That's seems to be the typical sarcastic tone here from people who just want to find ways around paying penalties or facing up to the fact that they are breaking the law. Why not honestly put your hands up, pay the fine and keep below the speed limit in future?

Or use the Irish Speedtraps website and avoid them.:rolleyes:

MrP

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Aaah! It just didn't feel the same without a dig from MrP today. Thanks:p

testicle

Perhaps you should just slow down.

Our man in Havana

Never fear the moral majority are here. Do you need breathing apparatus up there so high?

MrPudding

Paityn Spicy Winery wrote:

Aaah! It just didn't feel the same without a dig from MrP today. Thanks:p

You're welcom.

MrP

testicle

Bond-007 wrote:

Never fear the moral majority are here. Do you need breathing apparatus up there so high?

Ah here now. That's my line. I just said it because no one else seemed to have done so, and this would be boards.ie without it...

mick.fr

Why is there so many people who are always trying to give lessons to others here ?
"Lesson learned" etc...
Alright there are rules, laws, etc...but we are just humans after all, we are not programs.
In one hand you have got the authorities telling you not speeding, and in the other hand you have a car that has 192HP.
And when you have got a ticket, this goes to the PD, which gets an extra 35.000 euro bonus for 2007 tax free.

The real problem here is not "US" for god sake, this is the Irish government.
Anything else that Nissan Micra should be banned in the country.

Let's give the example to the other countries.
Let's buy nissan micra.

Brainpower

What a load of nonsense about penalty point. First of all there is no such thing as ghosting because that would imply that this database would be European wide, because technically as a European citizen, I can exchange a license in whatever state I'm resident in, moreover it is mandatory in the UK that if you are or intend living there over 12 month you have to change your license.

Retrospective application of points is nonsense because point are not harmonised between the 2 state (UK & Ireland) 3 point for speeding in the UK and only 2 point in Ireland-- how do you apply the model

In short if you have a UK license and you happen to have a copy of your Irish license, you can use your license in Ireland with a Nil point effect.

Our man in Havana

Ghosting is very much happening. I have seen letters sent to UK licence holders explaining that their 2 points are going to be held until such time as they can be applied to their licence.

Bond-007

Bond-007 wrote:

Ghosting is very much happening. I have seen letters sent to UK licence holders explaining that their 2 points are going to be held until such time as they can be applied to their licence.

If this is the case just dont change over the licence then they cant apply the points. Im driving in the uk on an irish licence and they can set up all the ghost licences they want cos I wont be changing to a uk licence. Well until im moving home then I mite change to a uk one alright

lifebook

first of all I have never seen so many high horses. Its only human nature to break the rules a little bit for gods sake stop being such a load of old farts.

Im sure you guy wonder north of the speed limit from time to time.

I always thought there was a 10% tolerance on the speed limits but I was caught doing 54KMH in a 50 zone so i dont know.

Do they calibrate those radars? at the end of the day they are measurement devices!!!!!!!!!!

Im not trying to drive like a lunatic or anything like that but i desperately need my car for work and when you do huge mileage its much easier to drift a little bit over the limit.

WhiteWashMan

lifebook wrote:

first of all I have never seen so many high horses. Its only human nature to break the rules a little bit for gods sake stop being such a load of old farts.

Im sure you guy wonder north of the speed limit from time to time.

I always thought there was a 10% tolerance on the speed limits but I was caught doing 54KMH in a 50 zone so i dont know.

Do they calibrate those radars? at the end of the day they are measurement devices!!!!!!!!!!

Im not trying to drive like a lunatic or anything like that but i desperately need my car for work and when you do huge mileage its much easier to drift a little bit over the limit.

if your car is that important to you, you wouldnt break the law.

there is no 'tolerance'.
otherwise, theyd just up the speed limit by 10%, wouldnt they?

yes, they calibrate the radars, they dont just wave their fingure in the air and pull figures out of their arse.

you were caught doing 54k according to your car. do you calibrate it every day?

Boards.ie tends to err on the side of caution when it comes to finding ways to getting around breaking the law. whether or not many people here complain about people being on a moral high ground, the fact of the matter is that I dont want this type of conversation going on.

consider this a warning, and any mods here, feel free to close this thread at any time.

i do consider the discussion of this ghost licence etc valid, so i am leaving it open. mods, its in your hands.

_Kaiser_

I think the original idea is pointless anyway as if they are creating "Ghost" licenses, they'll just apply the points to WHATEVER license you hold if and when the system is eventually harmonised. There won't BE a way "around it" anymore, and some people may find themselves instantly off the road when their arrears are applied.

If the new speed cameras that are on the way are the UK-style "average speed" ones that'll be another points/revenue bonanza. If these are sited properly with safety in mind (which of course they WON'T be) this would be a far more effective deterrant, AND actually make a difference on road fatalities.

However, getting done at 54 in a 50 (especially if an older MPH based car) is harsh, and yes the general consensus would seem to be that most Gardai give a 10% tolerance in light of this (but again, as with everything else in this country - it depends who you get! :mad:)

As usual though this thread has quickly descended into the usual argument between the "slow down and take your medicine" brigade, and those of us who believe it's far more important to be aware of the surrounding conditions, road quality etc and driving at an APPROPRIATE speed (which on Irish roads is often slower than the posted "safe" limit), than driving with your eyes glued to the speedo. :rolleyes:

MrPudding

WhiteWashMan wrote:

i
yes, they calibrate the radars, they dont just wave their fingure in the air and pull figures out of their arse.

Really? And how do you know this? The reason I ask is that, after several cases were thrown out because the gardai could not prove the devices were calibrated, the law was changed and now the gardai are under no obligation to show a device is or has ever been calibrated or indeed even prove that it is actually in working order.

MrP

DonJose

Bond-007 wrote:

Never fear the moral majority are here. Do you need breathing apparatus up there so high?

Do you need breathing apparatus down there in the sewers?

Wossack

Odin Lemon Wildfire wrote:

If this is the case just dont change over the licence then they cant apply the points. Im driving in the uk on an irish licence and they can set up all the ghost licences they want cos I wont be changing to a uk licence. Well until im moving home then I mite change to a uk one alright

well I guess eventually there might be some sort of cross-border points application (irish->english, or vice versa), and if your ghost license has enough shrapnel on it, it could mean a straight disqualification when the system gets put in place

10 years down the line you could be in for a shock

godtabh

lifebook wrote:

Its only human nature to break the rules a little bit for gods sake stop being such a load of old farts.

You've broken them more than once or does a "little bit" have a different meaning for you?

Our man in Havana

DonJose wrote:

Do you need breathing apparatus down there in the sewers?

Who said I was in the sewers? I am on the level ground leaning in neither direction. Air quality is good here!

godtabh

Bond-007 wrote:

Air quality is good here!

You sure? Lot of extra fumes form all them speeding drivers

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Ah, but the view is brilliant from up here. I can see my house!:p

cormie

Does anyone know the definite situation here with these ghost points?

I drive quite a bit in the UK/Europe and I do go above the posted limits, because personally I believe it's safe to go 130kmph in a 3 lane motorway at 3am in the morning.

I don't know if I've been flashed by any cameras, perhaps... but if so, what's the story?

Our man in Havana

You can only get ghost points if they actually catch you. So if you are flashed on Irish plates in the UK/Europe nothing will happen as they have no access to the Irish databases.

If you are in a hire car, the hire company will pass your details onto the police and they may chase you, very unlikely in my experiences.

If you are pulled over by the cops they will fine you and take your licence details and from these they will create a ghost record for you. I know that the DVLA do this in the UK for Irish/EU licence holders as do the Dept of transport here for UK/EU licences.

Seth Brundle

cormie wrote:

I don't know if I've been flashed by any cameras, perhaps... but if so, what's the story?

Whilst on holidays in France over the years, I used to give a nice big smile for these - it felt great!

jimmycrackcorm

I know someone with points who exchanged for a N.I. licence. He then exchanged back to an Irish licence later but at a different address. The original points disappeared. It might be a fluke though as generally they are tracked through the licence numbers.

Pete4779

seamus wrote:

What is it with Irish people refusing to put their hands up and accept their mistakes, instead trying to find every angle they can to weasel out of their failures?

No need to single out Irish people which is just racist I think. Speed cameras are a money making exercise. It's not "failures" either.

Getting 2 points for doing 104kph on a 100kph empty dual carriagway does not mean that magically you are more dangerous than somebody doing the 80kph limit on a tiny country lane. I don't think it's fair to pass judgement on someone elses driving ability if the requirements to be banned are not based on driving ability, conditions, the car or the time of the month for the police (i.e., the end of the month).

If it was the intention to have reduced road-related deaths and have safer drivers, then the government would have significantly accelerated the road development for motorways and enforced the already existing laws regarding non-fully licensed drivers.

Getting two points for creeping a few kph above a speed limit on an empty road several months after the incidence doesn't make you learn that speeding is dangerous - because it wasn't at all in the circumstance. So the only other purpose is to give you free reign to go out and do it again, by stealth be caught, and give more money to the government.

Fixed cameras are being shown already in the UK to not be the answer, and some boroughs are no longer funding them.

WhiteWashMan

Pete4779 wrote:

Getting 2 points for doing 104kph on a 100kph empty dual carriagway does not mean that magically you are more dangerous than somebody doing the 80kph limit on a tiny country lane.

you are right. it says nothing about their ability as a driver.

however, people who keep getting caught show how supremely stupid they are to.

i mean, get caught once, shame.
get caught twice, you should know better.
get caught enough times to loose your licence? blame everyone else, get angry with people who tell you what you already know (that you shouldnt be speeding) and then try and weasle out of it by finding some dodgey loophole.


no. nothing wrong with their driving. but stupid? definately.

then again, i =ve only ever had 3 points for doing 92 mph on a 70mph motorway.
ive managed to spend the last 7 years of my life not getting done, by obeying the speed limit.



and this isnt a high horse moral compass type post. im just fed up of people coming on here and complaining about their own **** ups and then.. well, read above.

WhiteWashMan

oh, and if there is no more to say on ghost licences, then i suggest the mods close this thread.
there is little left in it worth talking about.

Esel

cormie wrote:

I drive quite a bit in the UK/Europe and I do go above the posted limits, because personally I believe it's safe to go 130kmph in a 3 lane motorway at 3am in the morning.

Poetic licence there, cormie? As your entire motoring history is posted on boards, we are only aware of one trip outside the country (to the UK), in which you got stung by a large parking fine. Pray enliven our boring lives with tales of your many European motoring exploits.

seamus

Pete4779 wrote:

No need to single out Irish people which is just racist I think.

Racism is unfounded prejudice against a race. The Irish as a race have always been "cute hoors" and "chancers". My 25 years as an Irishman allows me to make blanket statements about them

Speed cameras are a money making exercise. It's not "failures" either.

Regardless, if you're caught breaking the law, the you were breaking the law. There is no argument. I went through the M50 camera last night at around 70kph. I don't think it flashed, but if a fine arrives in the post, I'll stick my hands up. Yes it's a stupid place for a camera and yes it's a money-making exercise, but if I was caught then it wasn't unfair - I was breaking the law. Hands up, accepted.

Getting 2 points for doing 104kph on a 100kph empty dual carriagway does not mean that magically you are more dangerous than somebody doing the 80kph limit on a tiny country lane. I don't think it's fair to pass judgement on someone elses driving ability if the requirements to be banned are not based on driving ability, conditions, the car or the time of the month for the police (i.e., the end of the month).

As WWM points out, continually getting points *does* say something about the driver in question. Getting two points is bad luck. Getting four points is verging on sloppy. Any more than that and you have to examine your driving. Even if you're getting shot in a barrel, you have to examine why you allow yourself to be caught - you're clearly not paying attention to the road.

unkel

Cormie had this all typed up before the close and he would like to add it to this thread:

Cormie wrote:

esel wrote:

Poetic licence there, cormie? As your entire motoring history is posted on boards, we are only aware of one trip outside the country (to the UK), in which you got stung by a large parking fine. Pray enliven our boring lives with tales of your many European motoring exploits.

lol, I was wondering if someone would question that, by quite a bit, I meant mileage wise and I'll be going to France in less than 2 weeks and will be doing quite a bit of mileage there aswell;) So by quite a bit, I mean I've driven quite a few hours above the speed limit.

WWM, the OP drives for a living, it's a lot easier to keep to the limits when you don't have to rely on your car/traffic to get you there on time. Plus, when you do huge mileage, as he says he does, it's also very easy to rack up points unknowingly with our system. If I get caught by the same well hidden camera 6 times in the space of a few weeks, that's my license gone, without me knowing I've even got caught once. Defies the purpose of the point system.

Providing you're an experienced and capable driver, 92MPH on a lot of the 70MPH motorways I've been on in the UK (I'm guessing you're talking about the UK since 3 points and MPH?) is perfectly safe. It all depends on the conditions. Going 74MPH on an empty 3 lane motorway in the UK at 3am, although breaking the limit is a lot safer than going 75MPH on a 2 lane Irish motorway at peak times. One is breaking the law, one is not, but the one breaking the law is safer.

7 years without getting done is different for a lot of people, that could be 35,000 miles for some and 350,000 for others.

Of course, if you knowingly have 6+ points, it's a different story, you should really keep to the limits, not for safetys sake, but for fear of the hammer! It doesn't mean the 6 points are always justified however.