A last some decent Journalism

siochain

on todays Independent.ie a bit long but well worth a read!

What have we become?
"I see great things ahead for you young O'Gara," says the stranger. "You will play for Ireland and the Lions. You will win three Triple Crowns with Ireland and a European Cup, a competition which has not yet been invented, with Munster. You will become one of the most popular sportsmen in the country and make a number of cheesy but lucrative advertisements. And, while we're at it, your friend Peter Stringer can be scrum half for all those triumphs."

"Cool," says O'Gara, "But I know this story. Where's the catch? Don't I have to sign over my soul or something?" The Devil shakes his head. "That is soooo last century, dude. We do these things differently now. All you have to do is let your private life become public property. Where's the harm in that?" Where indeed? Maybe young O'Gara would have signed up under those conditions, confident that nothing he would ever do off the pitch would interest the general public.

Unfortunately, as is usual in morality tales of this ilk, the Devil would have had the last laugh. Wonderful and all as the Irish out half's career has been, at this moment he must be wondering if it's all been worth it. A man who has given huge pleasure to the sports fans of this country has been shamefully hounded to the point where he has been become an object of pity rather than admiration. And, to some extent, we are all guilty.

Let's dispense with the hypocrisy. We can not blame the French media for this one. Months ago I heard that tabloid newspapers based in this country were sniffing around O'Gara's private life. In fact I planned to write a column about this kind of intrusion back then. But I didn't, for fear of being accused of doing the very kind of thing the Irish media have been at over the past week, airing the allegations under the guise of concern.

Because, unless there are a lot of undeclared L'Equipe readers out there, the precise nature of O'Gara's alleged difficulties would have remained mysterious in this country had the Irish papers not repeated them. The relief was palpable. Your newspapers could give you the gossip by pretending they were merely repeating the outrageous calumnies perpetrated by the cheese-eating slander monkeys. It was the kind of subterfuge a five-year-old could see through.

I've met Ronan O'Gara a couple of times. I've also met his father, a man from Collooney and a Sligo Rovers fan who has bequeathed to his son a Sligo accent unshakeable by Cork birth and education. For these parochial reasons I've always taken a special interest in O'Gara Junior (Look, Sligo is a small and largely unsuccessful county, we'll take our heroes where we can get them).

His emergence onto the Irish team coincided almost exactly with our journey out of the doldrums in which we had languished from the mid-1980s to the mid-'90s. He seemed, in many ways, emblematic of the way in which Munster became the country's first mass appeal rugby team. His very appearance suggested the kind of innocence which lay at the heart of the province's foreign adventures.

That innocence is no more. Ronan O'Gara has become yet another victim of the contemporary notion that everyone's business is everyone else's business. A society which seems to think that soap operas are in some way real has now developed the notion that real people can be treated as though they were soap opera characters.

I'm not even going to speculate about whether the O'Gara rumours are true or not. Because it's none of my ****ing business. And it's none of your's either. And neither are any of the other rumours which have been floating around about well-known Irish sportsmen. I don't care if A is gay, if B went berserk and smashed up his local pub, if C switched counties because he was having an affair, if D was banging his clubmate's wife, if E's loss of form is due to a drink problem. Honestly I don't.

I am interested in A, B, C, D and E because of what they do on the pitch. Their lives don't interest me because I have one of my own. Which is more than you can say for the anonymous hit-and-run internet merchants who post rumours and allegations on their miserable blogs and websites as though the players involved were figures in just one more reality television show.

At some stage we seem to have lost sight of the fact that sportsmen are human beings. Look at the way professional soccer players are treated. Every two-bit columnist and pub bore feels free to berate David and Victoria Beckham for their "showbiz marriage" and suggest that the couple have stayed together for the sake of their public image. I'm always intrigued as to where these great investigators get their information. Perhaps they're just employing their profound knowledge of human psychology, the kind gleaned from slumping on the couch watching Big Brother for several hours on the end.

It is a media commonplace too that many soccer WAGs are just in it for the money and prestige. Again, how do the journalists who write this prurient rubbish come by their knowledge? Who knows the real story of anyone else's marriage? Who knows what the footballer and the WAG are like when they get home, close the door and sigh with relief at the absence of the cameras? Ronan O'Gara's plight has attracted a lot of sympathy because he is one of our own. But Wayne Rooney and Coleen McLoughlin, a woman who can't buy a handbag without attracting some derogatory comment, are no less entitled to their privacy.

Back in the 18th century the keepers of mental asylums used to charge a few bob to members of the public who wanted to gawp at the unfortunate lunatics. We're beyond that these days. The tabloids, and increasingly the broadsheets, charge us a few bob and let us gawp at the celebrities. This is the modern-day freak show and unfortunately sportsmen, and sportswomen -- though not nearly as often -- have been caught up in it.

Some people would have you believe that this obsession with the intimate minutiae of other people's lives is merely the expression of a natural and healthy human hunger for gossip. But, in a week when some posh bimbo appeared on ITV to offer the opinion that there's no difference between call girls and footballers' wives, it might be time to consider the more sinister implications of the way we treat our public figures.

I have a confession to make. When I was 20 I emigrated to England and worked with a news agency which supplied stories to the British tabloid press. I worked there for a week. Why such a short time? Well, the first six days were your normal round of car crashes, political resignations and court cases. But on the seventh day I was dispatched to Islington with a photographer, our mission to wait outside the home of a popular soap star of the time (OK then, Nick Berry, Wicksy from Eastenders and later Constable something or other in Heartbeat) in an effort to catch him bringing a woman home. We hung around in the shadows for half an hour at which point something snapped and I told the photographer I was going for a pint. Thus ended a promising career in the gutter press.

The reason I'm telling you this story is that even a week in that environment led me to draw a surprising conclusion. The various hacks and snappers chasing down the London celebs weren't just doing it because it was a job. In many cases they harboured a genuine animus against the pop stars, soap actors and footballers who were their quarry. It makes sense really. You couldn't do a job like that unless you were personally driven. And the driving force is jealousy, the kind of jealousy which fuels hatred.

There is nothing harmless about treating people the way Ronan O'Gara and his wife have been treated in the past week. There is a real hatred there and a desire to see the man cut down to size.

But it's not just the papers, if you've bought one of those papers or gossiped about the rumours in the pub then you're

part of the problem too. Because the media doesn't cover things for pure pig iron's sake. The excuse of every sleazy tabloid is that they're giving the public what they want. And maybe that's true.

It's sad. I can't help thinking that today there are talented 16-year-olds kicking around on the nation's pitches, teenagers who will one day become national heroes by making the most of their God-given gifts, who don't realise the danger they will be putting themselves in. Just by scoring that vital goal, try or point, they may be giving away any right to a private life. That is an unacceptable position to put anyone in.

I wish Ronan O'Gara and his family well. And it would be nice to think that this kind of thing won't happen again. Nice but foolish. I'm writing this column from Longford where the local paper, the Longford Leader, has an editorial bemoaning the behaviour of newspapers -- Irish newspapers, not French ones -- which have hounded the family of a woman recently murdered in the town. Even at the funeral the family could not be left in peace.

What have we become?

EdgarAllenPoo

Who wrote that?

zAbbo

Exactly the kind of trash that you'd expect from the Sindo, they had no problem stoking the fire on ROG's personal life over the last few weeks.

padser

He actually misses one crucial point.

When someone cashes in on their 'fame' and celebrity status I think they basically lose the right to privacy.

He uses the example of the Beckhams, a couple who have built up a fortune through media management and publicity stunts - I couldn't care less what they do - but I don't accept that they are left with any right to 'privacy' after the extent to which they have 'sold' their private lives.

The best example I can actually think of this is Paul Scholes. He has been a top player for Man U and England (formerly) for over a decade and has NEVER courted media attention during that time. I am sure he signed some endorsement deals during that time but I have basically never seen him advertising things. He has forgone serious money to protect his private life and keep it 'private' - and I think he deserves privacy because of this. But when people 'sell' their private lives I think they need to accept that you can't sell 'bits' of your privacy - you either sell it all, or you keep it private. THere is no middle ground.

[Jackass]

At the same time though, I'd hardly consider ROG a publicity whore either...Other than the odd Lucozade Sport add I don't think he's tried to cash in on his "fame" thus justifying, in your eyes, being slated in the press.

I can honestly say I don't even know what these rumours are about ROG bar the one off comment said to me, but I didn't really ask for clarification because I genuinely don't care.

The only thing about ROG that concerns me is that I hope he can pull it together tonight and finally deliver the performance he is capable of and help inspire us, as he has done so many times for Munster, into making miracles happen.

jayteecork

Some decent journalism was exhibited after the game by the female TV3 reporter. She asked Eddie O'sullivan straight to his face is he going to resign, twice!!! The look on his face when he was asked first was priceless.

sickpuppy

Asking him would he resign the classless bitch,what else you expect from the thrash channel.
He should have give her a slap and get her back to the kitchen.
Women sports commentators worse than women comedians.

Snickers Man

Small error of fact. O'Gara was born in California, not Cork.

jayteecork

sickpuppy wrote:

He should have give her a slap and get her back to the kitchen.
Women sports commentators worse than women comedians.

Reported.

RuggieBear

sickpuppy banned

moe_sizlak

sickpuppy wrote:

Asking him would he resign the classless bitch,what else you expect from the thrash channel.
He should have give her a slap and get her back to the kitchen.
Women sports commentators worse than women comedians.

fair play to her for asking a question her male counterparts dont have the stones to
she makes a welcome change from the soft ball interviews we see on setanta
that guy on the sideline who is not irish is a joke

raven136

moe_sizlak wrote:

fair play to her for asking a question her male counterparts dont have the stones to
she makes a welcome change from the soft ball interviews we see on setanta
that guy on the sideline who is not irish is a joke

does he not work for the organisers and just gets the one question.setanta's is asked by the norn irish commentator i think.could be wrong

oobydooby

That's a very interesting (and ironic) article. I consider the Sunday Independent to be guilty of the same sin that the author accuses the tabloid press. I wish we had a decent Irish Sunday newspaper. I don't buy the assertion that we are all guilty of this gossiping if we speak of it in the pub or buy or read a rag of a paper (as the OP must have done).

The media (including this journalist I imagine) have overhyped these young men and stoked public expectations to an unreasonable extent just to sell copies. The coverage was similar to the English Premier League, vastly over-inflated. They gained. Then they scold us for reading their tripe.

There should be strict media laws here about libel, or invasion of privacy. If a paper shows a photo of Wayne Rooney walking around with some girl (Colleen or not) without his consent he should be able to sue them. If they write of his personal life when it's irrelevant, he should sue them. Sue them big. It's not in the public interest, it's nobody's business. For Rooney, please insert any high-profile figure doing any kind of private activity. (I would except inappropriate behaviour from teachers, priests, politicians, gardai, doctors or anyone in a position of responsibility in society, but this is probably in the public interest).

I wish as punters we were as appalled by gossip and the boring spreaders of gossip as we are by racists or sexist idiots like that banned poster above.
This hypocrisy from journalists sickens me. Good article though.

Aquos76

Fair play the the female reporter on TV3 for asking him was he going to resign. The look on his face was priceless. I'll upload it to youtube later on.

Here it is

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3CHGY6lEjQQ

old boy

she made one mistake, she should have asked him to name the date he was going

Hugh_C

siochain wrote:

Because it's none of my ****ing business. And it's none of your's either.

Crap grammar indicative of shoddy journalism (or transcription), no journalist worth her salt would put in that apostrophe.

Oilrig

Coming from someone who has been stuffed by so called "Journalists" in the past... and don't get me going on the "Sindo"... f***ing rag. I have to admit I was pleased that the TV3 girl asked Eddie the question, half the country were talking about the issue of his contract etc. so why not ask? at least his reply was on video so print hacks are somewhat limited in how they can twist it.

Bottom line, we entered this World Cup with our best players (holding their own in NH competitions) seemingly unlimited funds for preparation, etc. Our assault on this competition fell flat on its face.

We need a decent Postmortem to find out where we went wrong.

Don't take it out on the players, staff etc until we know what went wrong. Then we move on. Growing pains...

Trotter

Aquos76 wrote:

Fair play the the female reporter on TV3 for asking him was he going to resign. The look on his face was priceless. I'll upload it to youtube later on.

Here it is

Interesting quote from Glennon... "She's not looking for a career in sports reporting"..

He must think he's the only one with the credentials to criticise Eddie. His little comment showed that the golden circle of rugger buggers think they can shut out a journalist, or blacklist them. I think it was a bit of a tabloid question to ask, but thats TV3 for ya. Glennon did himself no favours with that little remark though.

jayteecork

Yeah that comment from Glennon really annoyed me.
In fact, he did nothing but annoy me every time he opened his stupid mouth.
"It was me who gave Denis Hickie his first cap at Leinster" etc. ****ing tool.

mental07

I can't listen to Eddie O'Sullivan anymore these days without thinking of Gift Grub - Mario Rosenstock has him spot on

About that article, I noticed a couple of grammatical errors. I'm sorry, but I can't take articles with grammatical errors seriously...plus, it's the Sindo.

Doubs

if i was to guess from the writing style i'd say its vincent hogan. some good bits & some bad, didnt like the paragraph where he repeated some of the rumours though

jmayo

Fair dues to Sinead Cissane (spelling ??).
At least she has exhibited more balls than the rest of the sports journos put together.
Sadly Glennon is right, I can't ever see her replacing Garth Crooks on the BBC.

Regarding ROG, he lost any right to privacy when he started his advertising blitz.
We have him advertising mastercard or something, lucozade sport (the kiss of death ad - look at Duff's career), tesco and it's spears (should be O'Driscoll he knows more about spears).
As poster mentioned about Scholes, a sports person loses right to privacy when they start cashing in on their celebrity, they can't have it both ways.

I tune out when I hear O'Gara drawl on about chasing sliverware, I always think it should be changed to something else (don't worry mods I won't say here). BTW I don't mean balls (he doesn't know what to do with them at the moment).

cavedave

padser
But when people 'sell' their private lives I think they need to accept that you can't sell 'bits' of your privacy - you either sell it all, or you keep it private. THere is no middle ground

I believe this to be false. No matter how many ads or hello magazine spreads someone does you do not have the right to hound them. Do you think we have the right to view medical procedures carried out on someone? To hound their wife/friend/family? Force them to reveal details of their religious beliefs?
There are numerous human privacy rights that cannot be handed over with a dodgy ad for big screen tv's.

Wickie

If I had a 16 year old who had worshipped O'Gara since he was a nipper and treked around europe after him I'd be pretty pissed off at O'Gara.
Especially since Its my buying the tickets to see him play that has him earing his living.

O'Gara et al have a responsibilty to behave himself as he is a role Model. Ok he may not have asked to be a role model but It comes with the territory.

Same Goes for the Pundits on the Telly. They need to say it as it is. Brennan is the only one who is willing to put the boot in but he does hold the odd grudge

Fallschirmjager

jmayo wrote:

Fair dues to Sinead Cissane (spelling ??).
At least she has exhibited more balls than the rest of the sports journos put together.
Sadly Glennon is right, I can't ever see her replacing Garth Crooks on the BBC.

Regarding ROG, he lost any right to privacy when he started his advertising blitz.
We have him advertising mastercard or something, lucozade sport (the kiss of death ad - look at Duff's career), tesco and it's spears (should be O'Driscoll he knows more about spears).
As poster mentioned about Scholes, a sports person loses right to privacy when they start cashing in on their celebrity, they can't have it both ways.

I tune out when I hear O'Gara drawl on about chasing sliverware, I always think it should be changed to something else (don't worry mods I won't say here). BTW I don't mean balls (he doesn't know what to do with them at the moment).

dont forget the dreadful 'im converted' samsung phone ads...jeeze i nearly crashed my car at dublin airport when i saw that....poor guy has to see it on his way out on the bus as well...jeasus some things really come back to haunt you.

cavedave

Wickie
If I had a 16 year old who had worshipped O'Gara since he was a nipper and treked around europe after him I'd be pretty pissed off at O'Gara.
Especially since Its my buying the tickets to see him play that has him earing his living.

Having wandered round France I am pretty pissed off at the team. That does not mean I have the right to a front row seat at their next prostate exam though. (I know you are not saying ROG has no right to privacy but some people here are saying that)

Wickie
O'Gara et al have a responsibilty to behave himself as he is a role Model. Ok he may not have asked to be a role model but It comes with the territory.

I must have missed where he got ordained and agreed to live life by a certain moral code. I thought playing for Ireland meant doing various things will an oval ball. The criteria for an irish player is not whether they offend our morals but how the do on the pitch.

parliament

padser wrote:

...

When someone cashes in on their 'fame' and celebrity status I think they basically lose the right to privacy.

This is the excuse people use to justify their depraved obsessions with celebrity!

Fair enough if he is out and about in public and somebody asks for his autograph or asks to have a quick photo taken with him but that is as far as it should go.

You cant seriously believe that because he plays rugby YOU have the right to know all his personal affairs.

Wickie

cavedave wrote:

I must have missed where he got ordained and agreed to live life by a certain moral code. I thought playing for Ireland meant doing various things will an oval ball. The criteria for an irish player is not whether they offend our morals but how the do on the pitch.

The Game of rugby has Rules, beyond that its has what might be termed a code of conduct, things you should and should not do while on the Pitch. If we turn a blind eye to what Players do off the Pitch then where will the future of rugby be.

What kind of grit and sense of purpose will our future Players have if they grow up watching the best players living it up off the pitch. They will be complete pussies on the pitch with no backbone. Living the high life is not in the manual any more.

jdivision

Kissane was just doing her job. Having said that if there was more of it then the standard of sports journalism would be much higher in this country. Most of them (and you only have to look at Des Cahill to see it) are too busy inflating players egoes to ask proper questions.

marco_polo

Wickie wrote:

. Brennan is the only one who is willing to put the boot in but he does hold the odd grudge

Oh so Trevor Brennan is the type of role model you admire.

Wickie wrote:

The Game of rugby has Rules, beyond that its has what might be termed a code of conduct, things you should and should not do while on the Pitch. If we turn a blind eye to what Players do off the Pitch then where will the future of rugby be.

That my friend is complete BS. I can't even tell if there is supposed to be a point in there somewhere. It is absolutely nobodys business what anyone gets up to off the field of play. Could you possibly be any more melodramatic. All you were missing there was the line "Won't somebody think of the children" :rolleyes:

Wickie wrote:

What kind of grit and sense of purpose will our future Players have if they grow up watching the best players living it up off the pitch. They will be complete pussies on the pitch with no backbone. Living the high life is not in the manual any more.

This is another example of the nasty attitude I have seen developing towards the Irish rugby players, this notionthat they are vastly overpaid prima donnas, which is simply not true. While rugby players make a decent living for a while, it is not a patch on what other top sports people make. It is not like they make so much money in their relatively short careers as to never have to work again for rest of their days.

jacool

The funniest thing I saw in all the ads was that on billboards ROG was promoting Newbridge Silverware, but on the radio he says that he's found something better than silverware, platinum. I bet that has cheesed off the Newbridge boys !

Ulstermell0

Fallschirmjager wrote:

dont forget the dreadful 'im converted' samsung phone ads...jeeze i nearly crashed my car at dublin airport when i saw that....poor guy has to see it on his way out on the bus as well...jeasus some things really come back to haunt you.

would make a great photo if you could get the lads looking all miserable underneath one of those billboards.

one point with this article - if its all about jealous journalists taking down people once they starty to do well, how come BOD has escaped this kind of treatment?

Wickie

marco_polo wrote:

Oh so Trevor Brennan is the type of role model you admire.

You quote me out of Context. I was refering to his punditing. Most of the Pundits are afraid of offending anyone be saying such and such played a shocker, whereas Brennan seems to me to call a spade a spade.

marco_polo wrote:

That my friend is complete BS. I can't even tell if there is supposed to be a point in there somewhere. It is absolutely nobodys business what anyone gets up to off the field of play. Could you possibly be any more melodramatic. All you were missing there was the line "Won't somebody think of the children" :rolleyes:

You seem to BE pretty good at the melodrama yourself

marco_polo wrote:

This is another example of the nasty attitude I have seen developing towards the Irish rugby players, this notionthat they are vastly overpaid prima donnas, which is simply not true. While rugby players make a decent living for a while, it is not a patch on what other top sports people make. It is not like they make so much money in their relatively short careers as to never have to work again for rest of their days.

You again seem to be putting words in my mouth.
Whatever they are Paid its a Lot More than the Namabians they played recently. My Point is that they are loosing focus. They don't seem interested in playing rugby based on the lacklustre performances lately.

jmayo

Wickie wrote:

You quote me out of Context. I was refering to his punditing. Most of the Pundits are afraid of offending anyone be saying such and such played a shocker, whereas Brennan seems to me to call a spade a spade.

You again seem to be putting words in my mouth.
Whatever they are Paid its a Lot More than the Namabians they played recently. My Point is that they are loosing focus. They don't seem interested in playing rugby based on the lacklustre performances lately.

Brennan does have an axe to grind and as I have stated in other threads I think rightly so. BTW I do not think he is a role model for kids.
But you have to admit he has said it out straight, unlike for instance Cheika who appears afraid to say anything contradictory, on chance it might offend the folks in Lansdowne road.

Regarding advertising we have suffered O'Gara drawling on the radio and his face appearing on either TV or from side of road.
Then suddenly his life is nobody's business. Well then fine, but don't dare appear advertising any shi** again in the media.
You can't have it both ways.
People chose to milk the system for what they can get and then get all high any mighty when the media, as they always do, bite back first chance they get.

moe_sizlak

ive been admiring sinead kissane throughout this tournament , shes a spikey little thing
i read an article about her before the world cup , her father was a well known gaelic footballer from which county i cant remember , she grew up as an only girl with several brothers and is by her own admission a bit of a tom boy

matt wiliams reaction to what she said on setanta was much more hostile than jim glennons , he lambasted her , just because shes not a kiss ass like williams , as i said in previous posts , were ireland to have lost every match by 100 points , williams would have been still talking about the possitives

jayteecork

Matt Williams is a joke. Failed with Leinster, failed with Scotland.
So is Jim Glennon for that matter, won a meagre 6 caps for Ireland, and failed at being a politician.
it's always the guys like that who spout the most crap.

Poncherello

would ya

moe_sizlak

would i not

moe_sizlak

Poncherello wrote:

would ya

would i not

RuggieBear

rugby, gentlemen...?

Snickers Man

Ah Ruggie,

If a couple of lads can't have a good lecherous conversation about some crumpet, what is the game coming to?

You'll be telling me next that the current generation of rugby players don't know the words to Dinah, Dinah and won't have a clue what a dicky-di-do is.

A rich girl has a limousine
A poor girl has a truck..............

moe_sizlak

Snickers Man wrote:

Ah Ruggie,

If a couple of lads can't have a good lecherous conversation about some crumpet, what is the game coming to?

You'll be telling me next that the current generation of rugby players don't know the words to Dinah, Dinah and won't have a clue what a dicky-di-do is.

A rich girl has a limousine
A poor girl has a truck..............

i think you mean a couple of goys

marco_polo

Wickie wrote:

You quote me out of Context. I was refering to his punditing. Most of the Pundits are afraid of offending anyone be saying such and such played a shocker, whereas Brennan seems to me to call a spade a spade.



You seem to BE pretty good at the melodrama yourself



You again seem to be putting words in my mouth.
Whatever they are Paid its a Lot More than the Namabians they played recently. My Point is that they are loosing focus. They don't seem interested in playing rugby based on the lacklustre performances lately.

Brennan has an axe to grind with alot of people in Irish rugby, sometimes it is hard to know what parts of his analysis are his honest opinion and which parts are his own personal agenda.

I don't disagree that the team have lost focus and get paid more than Namibia.

However you have failed to address your main point in a previous post which is why rugby players should be expected to uphold higher moral standard off the pitch than the average person, and also why that should be anybody elses business?

Wickie

marco_polo wrote: »

Brennan has an axe to grind with alot of people in Irish rugby, sometimes it is hard to know what parts of his analysis are his honest opinion and which parts are his own personal agenda.

Agreed.

marco_polo wrote: »

I don't disagree that the team have lost focus and get paid more than Namibia.

Ok. But I'll go further and say that Its because there getting paid so much now that they are loosing the focus.

marco_polo wrote: »

However you have failed to address your main point in a previous post which is why rugby players should be expected to uphold higher moral standard off the pitch than the average person, and also why that should be anybody elses business?

I don't believe I was saying that rugby players should be expected to uphold HIGHER moral standards than joe soap.
If you didn't get my point from my earlier posts then you probably won't if I reitterate them.
But I'm not saying that Players should have to suffer abuse or invasion of privacy just because they Play rugby.