Is Leinster the weakest football province?

poker_face

I'm posting this question to fellow boardsters to see whether they consider leinster the weakest footballing province. Leinster football is over hyped by the media and have been seriously under acheiving of late. The last time a county from leinster have won the all ireland senior title was back in 1999 and since then they've only had one all ireland finalist (Meath in 2001). In the mean time the other three provinces have had all ireland champions and a number of all ireland finalists. The only province that was not represented ay this year's all ireland was leinster with the minor finalists being Galway and Derry. I'll concede that maybe Connaught football is on par with Leinster at the moment but I think any unbiased football critic will agree with me that Leinster football is by far and away the poorest province per capita, since Connaught's population is a small fraction of Leinster's.

On all levels Connaught football has been more successful then Leinster's in the last decade. In under-age competitions Connaught teams have performed well with the last two minor All Ireland champions being from Connaught. The club all ireland competition have been dominated by Connaught clubs with 6 (at least) different connaught all ireland champions in the past 11 years. This is unlike Crossmaglen Rangers dominance in Ulster which shows that there is greater depth of strength at club level in Connaught. Despite Connaught having a bad season at all ireland level, Sligo still put up a better fight against a good cork team then a much talked about and over hyped Meath team.

Anyways I posted this thread to find out your opinions on this matter. I'd be particularly interested to hear if you believe there's a media biased towards Leinster teams and against Connaught teams.

K-9

poker_face wrote:

I'm posting this question to fellow boardsters to see whether they consider leinster the weakest footballing province. Leinster football is over hyped by the media and have been seriously under acheiving of late. The last time a county from leinster have won the all ireland senior title was back in 1999 and since then they've only had one all ireland finalist (Meath in 2001). In the mean time the other three provinces have had all ireland champions and a number of all ireland finalists. The only province that was not represented ay this year's all ireland was leinster with the minor finalists being Galway and Derry. I'll concede that maybe Connaught football is on par with Leinster at the moment but I think any unbiased football critic will agree with me that Leinster football is by far and away the poorest province per capita, since Connaught's population is a small fraction of Leinster's.

On all levels Connaught football has been more successful then Leinster's in the last decade. In under-age competitions Connaught teams have performed well with the last two minor All Ireland champions being from Connaught. The club all ireland competition have been dominated by Connaught clubs with 6 (at least) different connaught all ireland champions in the past 11 years. This is unlike Crossmaglen Rangers dominance in Ulster which shows that there is greater depth of strength at club level in Connaught. Despite Connaught having a bad season at all ireland level, Sligo still put up a better fight against a good cork team then a much talked about and over hyped Meath team.

Anyways I posted this thread to find out your opinions on this matter. I'd be particularly interested to hear if you believe there's a media biased towards Leinster teams and against Connaught teams.

You've a point to certain extent. Connacht teams , like Munster have an unfair advantage in the Qualifiers though.

Yavvy

what most of us Dubs are sick of is the media bias discussion. just half the country live in dublin and the surrounding areas. and saying lesinster is the poorest province per captia is a little unfair as you could also make the comment is the most diverse provience per capita. Does cannaught and ulster have a higher ratio of gaelic games to other sports...yes it does.

Also the fact that dublin is the captial means that our clubs are full of non dublin players...not an issue for Mayo huh ? does this stop dublin players not developing at the highest level ? I would think a little.

As a Dublin fan I expect and hope for the best and there isnt as much of a challenge in leinster as we would like (hopefully Meath, Kildare, wexford, laois and Westmeath can prove me wrong next year)

having said all that I see Leinster as MUCH stronger than Connaught, apart form a Mayo team that was good for 3 years connaught teams are always the team every other team hope's for.

PS im not really buying into the underage measure... doesnt seem to provide the follow like it used to.

Nalced_irl

I would agree that if you take Mayo out of Connaght, any other county would love to meet any of the rest. Take Dublin out of Leinster and you are still left with some strong teams that are growing stronger every year. Leinster have been the least successful provence of recent times, but certainly not the weakest imo. Also, per capita makes absolutely no difference imo

blackbelt

Nalced_irl wrote:

I would agree that if you take Mayo out of Connaght, any other county would love to meet any of the rest. Take Dublin out of Leinster and you are still left with some strong teams that are growing stronger every year. Leinster have been the least successful provence of recent times, but certainly not the weakest imo. Also, per capita makes absolutely no difference imo

My sentiments exactly.I wouldn't have been one bit worried if we had to play Galway or Sligo but Mayo are a different proposition.I strongly believe they'll be back next year but Connaught has declined and now so is Ulster.Now the Ulster teams are finding it hard to get past the quarter final stages.Last years semis had two Munster,one Connaught and one Leinster.This year we had 2 Munster and 2 Leinster.I think the success of Leinster and Munster is indicative that they are prevailing as the stronger provinces.

I don't think Leinster is the weakest province.Actually, I think Leinster is the strongest province.Yes you read it here.Furhtermore to looking at the different counties that compete in the provinces,why don't we look at the more representative M Donnelly/Old Railway Cup?

Leinster has always fared really good in that and lifted the trophy last year.Its certainly a cup I hope stays around.I find the football very entertaining.Maybe it could be argued that the best players are in Leinster but I think the Championship trend along with the M Donnelly Cup is indicative of how Leinster is NOT the weakest province.

K-9

blackbelt wrote:

I strongly believe they'll be back next year but Connaught has declined and now so is Ulster.Now the Ulster teams are finding it hard to get past the quarter final stages.Last years semis had two Munster,one Connaught and one Leinster.This year we had 2 Munster and 2 Leinster.I think the success of Leinster and Munster is indicative that they are prevailing as the stronger provinces.

That's understating Monaghans performance and overstating Meaths'. Tyrone, if in any way on form, would have taken Meath. Meath deserved it on the day. Monaghan where a kick of the ball away.

I'd say Ulster has 5 teams with a realistic chance of a SF appearence next year, Leinster doesn't. 5 Ulster teams have reached QF's in the last 2 years. The Ulster Council aim is to have 5/8 Quarter Finalists. Very achievable for Ulster, but not other provinces. We also had Armagh V. Derry and Donegal V. Monaghan Qualifiers so realistically 3 QF's out of 7 teams wasn't bad.

blackbelt wrote:

I don't think Leinster is the weakest province.Actually, I think Leinster is the strongest province.Yes you read it here.Furhtermore to looking at the different counties that compete in the provinces,why don't we look at the more representative M Donnelly/Old Railway Cup?

Leinster has always fared really good in that and lifted the trophy last year.Its certainly a cup I hope stays around.I find the football very entertaining.Maybe it could be argued that the best players are in Leinster but I think the Championship trend along with the M Donnelly Cup is indicative of how Leinster is NOT the weakest province.

Leinster and Ulster fare well.

Probably what settles this one is, who do Kerry treat as their main threats next year? Dublin and Tyrone!

Will Tyrone get out of Ulster, maybe? Will Dublin get out of Leinster, probably! Meath have to prove they wheren't a flash in the plan.

Waylander

I agree with Sean, I think Ulster is still stronger then Leinster, but I do think the gap is closing. I think Connaught are a good bit behind to be honest. Even when Mayo made the final last year I thought they were an overrated team, I thought Dublin should have been able to put them away in the semi, and think that their comeback was more to do with Dublin weakness than Mayo strength. They are an average team, and to my mind this years performance is more indicitave of their standing than last years. I know there are plenty who will disagree with that, but it is my opinion.

I still think Kery will treat Tyrone as their main rivals next year with Dublin as the next serious threat. The Meath result against Tyrone this year, was a one off for me, and those those teams player 10 times, I think Tyrone would win 7 of the 10 meetings, Meath just were better on the day in question.

DublinDes

No, it would have to be Connacht - only 5 teams. Galway are the only ones who have won a senior All Ireland in the last 60 years !

blackbelt

No,thats incorrect.Mayo have won All Irelands in 1950 and 1951.

MGrah

This question is totally unanswerable unless you set down some criteria as to how you're going to measure 'strength' and 'weakness' and what period of time indicates the current weakest/strongest.

Is it in terms of a team from that province winning all irelands?
A team reaching all irelands?
Several teams reaching semi/quarter finals?
Diversity of teams reaching finals/semi/quarter?
Only this year? Over 2 years, 5 years?

If you look only at All Ireland success over a short period of time then Munster/Ulster are strongest and Leinster/Connaught are weakest.

But if you look at strength in depth by looking at number of teams reaching semi finals over the past 2 years, Munster is strongest with 2 each year, Leinster 2nd with 1 then 2 and Connaught 3rd with 1. Change that to 1/4 finals and it changes completely, change it to 5 years rather than 2 and it changes completely again.

The discussions here are pointless in a way because no one is measuring on the same criteria. If you can agree the criteria then the answer explains itself.

kevmy

While the above poster has a point I still think there is a general trend over the years about which provinces are weak and which are strong.

Up until the last year or two I would have said that Leinster were the weakest. Very average teams were winning Leinster titles. Laois, Westmeath, Dublin(initially). However Dublin have come on a lot in the last 2 years and Meath stuck their hand up this year. Maybe judging over the last 2 years Connaught are the weakest.

However for the 4 or 5 years preceding that Leinster were definitely weaker. Galway got to a final(and replay) in 00 and won it in 01 and Mayo got to a final in 04, Sligo were also causing waves back then with a better team than they have now.

Personally I think Ulster's period of dominance is over and it's unlikely Armagh will rise again and Tyrone will have it tough, they are suffering from bad luck with injuries and a lack of fresh blood and ideas.

It will be extremely difficult for Kerry to come again next year. That would mean 5 finals in a row and 3 titles in a row. They benefited this year from the paupacy of the opposition but teams will improve between this year and next

K-9

MGrah wrote:

The discussions here are pointless in a way because no one is measuring on the same criteria. If you can agree the criteria then the answer explains itself.

True. There's so many ways of looking at it.

Even looking at Qualifier stages, Munster has an unfair advantage as well. Kerry beating Waterford to be guarenteed a last 12 place and Sligo beating Roscommon in Connacht the same. If you look at it, that each province is guarenteed a Quarter Finalist, maybe looking at the other 4 Quarter Finalists is an answer.

Who knows really. Realistically, Kerry, Dublin & Tyrone have a realistic chance of winning the All Ireland. Each province after that probably has at least 2 or 3 teams that could get to QF or SF stage. Ulster maybe more.
Munster still only has 2 teams with that chance. Barring Limerick, the rest just aren't competitive.

blackbelt

There is so many ways of looking at it.You could make a case on the basis that a province might overall have the better players rather than the teams that compete in them.Such is the case that the M Donnelly Cup might highlight this every year.

In fairness,Connaught people making the case that Mayo got to two finals in previous years is not indicative of how their province fairs.I also dont think Munster is the strongest purely because Kerry win the All Ireland.One county surely can't represent a whole province who otherwise aren't pulling their weight.

I think the quarter and semi final stage is more indicative of how a province might be deemed strong/weak instead of finals.Then again we could just look to the standard of football which is played in each province.Leinster football is usually open and free flowing like Connaught while Ulster is very competitive and physical.Munster tends to be start-stop stuff,especially in the Cork-Kerry matches and then totally one sided in other matches.

Lets look at the trends from 2005 in the quarter and semi finals

2005

Connaught:2 qf and 1 sf
Leinster:2qf
Munster:2qf and 2 sf
Ulster:3qf and 2sf

2006

Connaught:1qf and 1sf
Leinster:2qf and 1sf
Munster:2qf and 2sf
Ulster:2qf

2007

Connaught:1qf
Leinster:2qf and 2sf
Munster:2qf and 2sf
Ulster:3qf

Now if we are to give credit rating for each stages.2 for a qf and 4 for a sf.The following are the results over the last three seasons.

Connaught: 16
Leinster: 24
Munster:36
Ulster: 24

If we used this criteria,it would show Connaught are the weakest province.

blackbelt

There is so many ways of looking at it.You could make a case on the basis that a province might overall have the better players rather than the teams that compete in them.Such is the case that the M Donnelly Cup might highlight this every year.

In fairness,Connaught people making the case that Mayo got to two finals in previous years is not indicative of how their province fairs.I also dont think Munster is the strongest purely because Kerry win the All Ireland.One county surely can't represent a whole province who otherwise aren't pulling their weight.

I think the quarter and semi final stage is more indicative of how a province might be deemed strong/weak instead of finals.Then again we could just look to the standard of football which is played in each province.Leinster football is usually open and free flowing like Connaught while Ulster is very competitive and physical.Munster tends to be start-stop stuff,especially in the Cork-Kerry matches and then totally one sided in other matches.

Lets look at the trends from 2005 in the quarter and semi finals

2005

Connaught:2 qf and 1 sf
Leinster:2qf
Munster:2qf and 2 sf
Ulster:3qf and 2sf

2006

Connaught:1qf and 1sf
Leinster:2qf and 1sf
Munster:2qf and 2sf
Ulster:2qf

2007

Connaught:1qf
Leinster:2qf and 2sf
Munster:2qf and 2sf
Ulster:3qf

Now if we are to give credit rating for each stages.2 for a qf and 4 for a sf.The following are the results over the last three seasons.

Connaught: 16
Leinster: 24
Munster:36
Ulster: 24

If we used this criteria,it would show Connaught are the weakest province.

K-9

That probably is a better way of looking at it.

Also each province is guarenteed a Q/F place regardless of standard or competitiveness. So really one Quarter Finalist doesn't mean a lot.

Just noticed, Connacht did have a finalist in 06!

There is also the point that it is easier (as shown by the statistics) for Cork and Kerry to get to a QF anyway. Really, why shouldn't they. Derry/Armagh etc. have a tougher route to the last 12 than Kerry or Cork.

blackbelt

I used the quarter final as a method due to teams having to play one extra round in the qualifier to get there.I excluded the final as this is the stage where a finalist place is most coveted and hard to get to.If one province only has one rep in a quarter final,it is indicative of how weak the province is getting.Such was the case with Connaught this year.

I truly believe Connaught is the weakest province and this years performance further backs this up.While I think Ulster has declined in some respect,I still think Ulster and Leinster are as strong as each other.Meath defeating Tyrone and Dublin defeating Derry would give substance to this point.

With Cork being in four semi-finals and Kerry being in 4 semis,this highlights how Munster would be the strongest province.I know it seems paradoxical but Munster is the strongest province whilst being the easiest.This is down to 2 of the six counties totally dominating the province and progressing to the semis.

K-9

blackbelt wrote:

I used the quarter final as a method due to teams having to play one extra round in the qualifier to get there.I excluded the final as this is the stage where a finalist place is most coveted and hard to get to.If one province only has one rep in a quarter final,it is indicative of how weak the province is getting.Such was the case with Connaught this year.

The Leinster and Connacht finalists where beaten by Qualifiers from Ulster and Leinster. Which also says a lot

blackbelt wrote:

I truly believe Connaught is the weakest province and this years performance further backs this up.While I think Ulster has declined in some respect,I still think Ulster and Leinster are as strong as each other.Meath defeating Tyrone and Dublin defeating Derry would give substance to this point.

5 different Ulster teams in the Quarter Finals in the last 2 years would suggest there are more counties at that standard in Ulster.The majority of Leinster teams are not at that level.The record of Leinster teams is poor especially against Ulster teams. Fermanagh beat Wexford, Donegal beat Westmeath and Derry beat Laois, all highly rated Leinster teams this year. All quite easily.If you go back over the last few years the Leinster teams record is even worse. I could be wrong but where Meath the first Leinster team to beat an Ulster team in a Qualifier this year?

Tyrone and Monaghan where a kick of a ball away from a Semi. Meath and indeed Monaghan have to prove next year they wheren't one season wonders.

Ulster teams have proven themselves consistently at Qualifier level. 5 have gotten to SF's through the Qualifiers and 6 have got to Quarter Finals. Speaks for itself. I can still see 3 or 4 Ulster teams in the QF next year. It's harder to see other provinces doing that.

blackbelt wrote:

With Cork being in four semi-finals and Kerry being in 4 semis,this highlights how Munster would be the strongest province.I know it seems paradoxical but Munster is the strongest province whilst being the easiest.This is down to 2 of the six counties totally dominating the province and progressing to the semis.

I would say its down to 3 of the 6 teams being Division 4 standard.Both counties moan about lack of competition at QF stage. If Monaghan had taken Kerry, that would have been one of the excuses. Until we stop saying a Munster Semi Final is the same as a Ulster or Leinster Semi, well, they aren't going to get extra competition. Maybe a Qualifier system based on games played rather than provincial levels would be better. e.g. If Kerry had lost the Munster Final they would only have won one match, they would go into the same round as Donegal, Derry, Mayo, Roscommon, Meath, Longford etc.

shiibata

sorry for going slightly off topic here, but i would love to see kerry having a year in the ulster championship..say they were there instead of donegal this year..play armagh in 1st round, then play tyrone just to get to a provincial final, then still have 3 hard games to win an all ireland..
all-irelands and all stars would not come as handy if they had to take this route every year..

The Rooster

Clearly in 2007, Ulster was weaker than Leinster, as proven by two Leinster teams making the semi-finals of the All Ireland, and for the second consecutive year, no Ulster team in the semi-finals. Plus the second best team in Leinster comfortably disposed of the best team in Ulster. Ulster people can make all the excuses they want, but those are the facts.

It doesnt mean that 2008 will be a similar story though, an Ulster team may well come through next year.

shiibata

The Rooster wrote:

Clearly in 2007, Ulster was weaker than Leinster, as proven by two Leinster teams making the semi-finals of the All Ireland, and for the second consecutive year, no Ulster team in the semi-finals. Plus the second best team in Leinster comfortably disposed of the best team in Ulster. Ulster people can make all the excuses they want, but those are the facts.

It doesnt mean that 2008 will be a similar story though, an Ulster team may well come through next year.

I think myself that Ulster teams will struggle to win the all-ireland itself for the next few years(hope i am wrong) but they will always be in the shake up..
Ulster teams every year also end up knocking each other out in the qualifiers which are not fixed:rolleyes:
Leinster stronger than Ulster:eek: Fermanagh were all over Meath in qualifiers but hit wide after wide..so were lucky to get playing tyrone..Derry if would have got belief in themselves earlier and for some great saves by cluxton would have beaten the best team in leinster..a lot of ifs and buts, i know...As i said about kerry, stick the royals and dubs in ulster for a year and then lets see how strong you are..

K-9

The Rooster wrote:

Clearly in 2007, Ulster was weaker than Leinster, as proven by two Leinster teams making the semi-finals of the All Ireland, and for the second consecutive year, no Ulster team in the semi-finals. Plus the second best team in Leinster comfortably disposed of the best team in Ulster. Ulster people can make all the excuses they want, but those are the facts.

It doesnt mean that 2008 will be a similar story though, an Ulster team may well come through next year.

No, your second best team was beaten by Derry! :rolleyes:
Our second best team ran Kerry the closest of all!
5 different teams in the Quarters in two years.
The overall standard is higher in Ulster. There are more teams at that level.
This year, you had Dublin and Meath and really who else.
Ulster had Monaghan, Derry, Tyrone and the League champions Donegal.Armagh only lost their games by a point to teams of a higher standard than 10/12 Leinster teams.
Meath didn't look that comfortable against Tyrone when Tyrone where kicking wide after wide and Meath where being wiped out at midfield. All will be answered next year for Meath.

blackbelt

Wasn't it the case however that last year saw a lot of Ulster teams go out to Leinster in qualifier stages.Longford upsetting Derry springs to mind and Laois beat Tyrone.These are the results that stick out in my mind.Furthermore,these two teams were beaten again this year by 2 different Leinster teams in Dublin and Meath.

I don't think you could count Down,Cavan and Antrim as contenders.Donegal were awful this year after the League.I've never seen a hot favourite just explode against Tyrone and Monaghan but I am thinking that because Donegal were knocked out by fellow Ulster teams that they are ineligible for consideration for this year.If we want to reference Donegal,we'd have to look at last years championship when they were beaten by Cork.

Dublin were clearly stronger than Derry and Meath took their chances unlike Tyrone and thats what it is all about except in the case of Laois v Longford as Longford clearly had Laois on the ropes throughout the whole match.Previous to this,Meath took out Down and Fermanagh.

I just think that Ulster has declined to the point where its level with Leinster now.Connaught are the weakest.At the start of the championship,one person posted here and said no team from the West had a chance.I didn't quite believe it but we'd later come to find out how true that was.

I would agree that the Ulster SFC is the most competitive but when they fair against each other they are level with Leinster.

The Rooster

Seanies32 wrote:

No, your second best team was beaten by Derry! :rolleyes:
Meath didn't look that comfortable against Tyrone when Tyrone where kicking wide after wide and Meath where being wiped out at midfield. All will be answered next year for Meath.

Meath were clearly the second best team in Leinster this year, but hey, feel free to highlight your lack of knowledge.

Does Tyrone kicking "wide after wide" mean they're good or bad :rolleyes:

Meath beat them, and beat them well.

How many Ulster teams in the All Ireland semi-finals in 2006? None

How many Ulster teams in the All Ireland semi-finals in 2007? None

The facts speak for themselves. Ulster have had two bad years in a row. But they're top of the table for excuses.

And don't forget, Donegal won the league - Woohooooo

K-9

The Rooster wrote:

Meath were clearly the second best team in Leinster this year, but hey, feel free to highlight your lack of knowledge.

That's what the sarcastic smilie was for! :rolleyes:

The Rooster wrote:

Does Tyrone kicking "wide after wide" mean they're good or bad :rolleyes:

Donegal got a SF in 03. Doesn't mean they where in the Top 4 that year, or actually, top 3 as Tyrone hammered Kerry. Are you suggesting Meath are one of the Top 4 teams in the country?, After that show in the SF.
Tyrone had a bad day, Meath a good one, s**t happens. We'll see next year how good the second best team in Leinster was.

By the way, what happened Westmeath, Wexford and Laois, so called strong Leinster counties? All Top 6 Leinster counties! Westmeath and Laois where beaten well in their own backyard! Shouldn't be happening counties of the same standard with home advantage.

I'd say Leinster shouldn't get carried away with 2 counties in the Semis. After all, it's about bloody time!:rolleyes:

The Rooster wrote:

How many Ulster teams in the All Ireland semi-finals in 2006? None

How many Ulster teams in the All Ireland semi-finals in 2007? None

The facts speak for themselves. Ulster have had two bad years in a row. But they're top of the table for excuses.

5 different teams in Quarters is a bad 2 years. What does that say about Leinster.
Ulster teams have consistently beaten Leinster teams in the Qualifiers. Even this year, Ulster teams won more head to heads with Leinster teams.

The Rooster wrote:

And don't forget, Donegal won the league - Woohooooo

I'd say coming from an Ulster perspective, it would be about as difficult to win as Leinster.

K-9

blackbelt wrote:

Wasn't it the case however that last year saw a lot of Ulster teams go out to Leinster in qualifier stages.Longford upsetting Derry springs to mind and Laois beat Tyrone.These are the results that stick out in my mind.Furthermore,these two teams were beaten again this year by 2 different Leinster teams in Dublin and Meath.

I don't think you could count Down,Cavan and Antrim as contenders.

Problem is, those Leinster wins stick out for you. Not the heavy losses by Westmeath, Laois or Wexford. I still think the jury is out on Meath until next year. At least 6 Ulster counties would fancy their chances against them next year. 2 of other 3 can get to a Ulster Final next year as Derry and Monaghan are on the same side of the draw as them.Never right off Down, when they get the swagger going and get to Croker!

How many Leinster teams are not contenders?

blackbelt wrote:

Donegal were awful this year after the League.I've never seen a hot favourite just explode against Tyrone and Monaghan but I am thinking that because Donegal were knocked out by fellow Ulster teams that they are ineligible for consideration for this year.If we want to reference Donegal,we'd have to look at last years championship when they were beaten by Cork.

Hot favourites? Anybody who knew anything about football and Ulster football in particularly should know there's no such thing like that in a Ulster Semi Final. Tyrone know this from 04 when we beat them.
Donegal have a consistent record of getting to QF's and Ulster Finals.

blackbelt wrote:

Dublin were clearly stronger than Derry and Meath took their chances unlike Tyrone and thats what it is all about except in the case of Laois v Longford as Longford clearly had Laois on the ropes throughout the whole match.Previous to this,Meath took out Down and Fermanagh.

Agreed. Down as you say yourself aren't up to the rest of the Ulster teams standards.Also, how can you say Tyrone didn't take their chances, and I agree, but you then say that doesn't apply to Longford against Laois?

blackbelt wrote:

I just think that Ulster has declined to the point where its level with Leinster now.Connaught are the weakest.At the start of the championship,one person posted here and said no team from the West had a chance.I didn't quite believe it but we'd later come to find out how true that was.

I would agree that the Ulster SFC is the most competitive but when they fair against each other they are level with Leinster.

Meath may have been the exception to the rule this year! If you put the top 6 from Ulster against the top 6 in Leinster, I'd say Leinster counties would be happy with 3 wins, Ulster counties would be unhappy with 3 wins.

K-9

blackbelt wrote:

Well you beat me to it Patmac but I'll give my rankings as to how I see things.I am taking into account the last 2-3 years ie 2005-2007 with this year having the big impact on how I perceive a team to be ranked.

1.Kerry
2.Dublin
3.Tyrone
4.Cork
5.Mayo
6.Monaghan
7.Meath
8.Galway
9.Derry
10.Donegal
11.Armagh
12.Laois

13.Sligo
14.Fermanagh
15.Wexford
16.Westmeath
17.Louth
18.Limerick
19.Leitrim
20.Kildare
21.Down
22.Cavan
23.Roscommon
24.Longford

25.Wicklow
26.Offaly
27.Antrim
28.Clare
29.Waterford
30.Carlow
31.Tipperary
32.London
33.New York
34.Kilkenny

You have 5 Ulster teams in the Top 12 as against 3 Leinster.
Even Fermanagh are ahead of Wexford, Westmeath, Louth and Kildare. Down and Cavan are ahead of Longford, Wicklow and Offaly.
That suggests that Ulster is stronger overall. The Kerry players see 3/4 Ulster counties along with Dublin as there threat to a 3 in a row.

smashey

blackbelt wrote:

Well you beat me to it Patmac but I'll give my rankings as to how I see things.I am taking into account the last 2-3 years ie 2005-2007 with this year having the big impact on how I perceive a team to be ranked.

1.Kerry
2.Dublin
3.Tyrone
4.Cork
5.Mayo
6.Monaghan
7.Meath
8.Galway
9.Derry
10.Donegal
11.Armagh
12.Laois

If you are taking the last 2-3 years into account (even though you have given this year the biggest impact), I fail to see how Monaghan, Meath and Galway are ranked so highly. Armagh didn't set the world on fire this year but they won an Ulster title in each of the two previous years. Surely the accumulation of these would rank them higher than the three teams already mentioned. Galway's impact this year wasn't almost negligible. A defeat in the Connacht final followed by a whimper.

K-9

smashey wrote:

If you are taking the last 2-3 years into account (even though you have given this year the biggest impact), I fail to see how Monaghan, Meath and Galway are ranked so highly. Armagh didn't set the world on fire this year but they won an Ulster title in each of the two previous years. Surely the accumulation of these would rank them higher than the three teams already mentioned. Galway's impact this year wasn't almost negligible. A defeat in the Connacht final followed by a whimper.

Well, in fairness, if we're giving Monaghan a high ranking, you have to give Meath one.I'd swap Armagh for Galway. If you put Galway 11, there's very little to argue between 4 and 10, other than exact placings.I would say 4-10 then, there's little in All Ireland winning potential between them. I'd put Cork similar to Mayo, been to AI Sf's and Finals and flopped!

Laois and Galway are the only 2 of the top 12 that have gone back over 2 years. Kerry still say their 2 toughest matches and the ones that set the standard, where Armagh in 06 and Monaghan in 07 and they still say Ulster and Dublin set the standard they have to meet.

The days of it being a Dublin V. Kerry or Leinster V. Munster AI is over. Doesn't matter if there was no Ulster teams in the Semis in the last 2 years, Kerry know where the competition starts. They know the games they have to prepare for! Ulster teams have shown the way to beat Kerry, it's not Ulsters fault if Dublin didn't learn from it!

As Blackbelts stats show, the top 6 in Ulster are equal to the top 3 in Leinster! Even in Fermanaghs' cases none of the Leinster counties below them have come close to matching their record in the last 5 years. This from what is the smallest GAA county in Ireland.

6/14 are from Ulster, 3 Leinster, 3 Connacht and 2 Munster.

Wexford, Westmeath and Louth haven't performed to Frmanaghs' level. I do give Louth a chance compared to the other 2, but then again, they really are a border county!:rolleyes:

kevmy

Seanies32 wrote:

I'd put Cork similar to Mayo, been to AI Sf's and Finals and flopped!

Ah now thats unfair. Mayo never flopped in a semi. We've always waited until the final to flop and when we flop we flop properly

K-9

kevmy wrote:

Ah now thats unfair. Mayo never flopped in a semi. We've always waited until the final to flop and when we flop we flop properly

Ok, then Mayo flop in style! Donegal aren't too bad at it either!

Nalced_irl

Seanies32 wrote:

Ok, then Mayo flop in style! Donegal aren't too bad at it either!

At the moment, Leinster is behind Ulster imo. We are getting closer as some of the bigger Ulster teams seem to be on the decline, with some smaller footballing counties getting better, along with some smaller Leinster teams. I dont think there is a huge gap between them at the moment but i would still put Ulster higher by a small margin.