Working in "IT"

Naikon

Hi, I don't know if this is the best place to post this this but here goes.
I recently started a BSc in Computing degree at DIT Kevin street and I am finding it great so far.

I am pretty interested in Computing(since the Amiga 4000:D) areas like Hardware, Unix based operating systems(I personally use FreeBSD 6.2 for my home file server),and various things like programming(I taught myself some C over the summer and find it somewhat enjoyable coding even though I am no guru as of now:D).

Problem is though, Even though I have a big interest in computing, I don't know If I will be cut out for working in the industry due to my fairly crap maths ability(I got a "C1" in Ordinary level for the leaving cert):o
Will I be at a big disadvantage coming out of College with little work experience?

So, is the IT industry a good industry?, I do not expect top make any real decent money in IT just after college(obviously), and picking it just because of money wasn't the initial concern when picking the degree.
But does the industry offer any sort of long term satisfaction?.
Should I consider something else?

-Thanks, Naikon.

r0nn13

mmm, been working in IT for some years and met all types of IT people. To tell you the truth having a brilliant maths ability is less important than understanding programming code, and having a fairly logical mind to problem solve your code or others code. (or other IT issues)

As for long term satisfaction, if you love computers or programming and this is a hobby for you then you should be more satisfied than the next IT person who is just doing the job for the job...

When you get enough experience then you will have to further specialise or move into management. If you are not a people person stick with the techie stuff as you will lose the hands on stuff more and more the further up the management route you take.

IT is a wide area and getting specialised in 1 area is not good if you want to transfer to a smaller company who likes to have a jack of all trades...

Get as much experience of everything as you can early on in your career and actually get good experience and not just tinkering experience... Try and see what technologies or OS’s or programming languages you are interested in and look at job specs to see if you would like to do that job, but also look for jobs that say like 5 years exp so you can see if you are going in the right direction…

Personally I love IT and love going into work every day… Bring the problems on

As for work experience try and get summer gigs doing IT work, as when you finish your BSc the grade will be as important as experience...

And finally don't forget the soft/people skills too...

Doctor DooM

I work in IT and my job requires no maths at all.

IT does not = programming (although I would like a shift in that direction at some point.)

There is actualy quite a lot of variety in IT out there. Soft skills are important.

I would point out that maths are usually important in progrqamming degrees, so mayb e afew grinds?

youcancallmeal

The only thing I''ve ever found maths useful for in IT is for understanding binary and IP addressing

Dr Lektroluv

Naikon wrote:

Problem is though, Even though I have a big interest in computing, I don't know If I will be cut out for working in the industry due to my fairly crap maths ability(I got a "C1" in Ordinary level for the leaving cert):o
Will I be at a big disadvantage coming out of College with little work experience?

-Thanks, Naikon.

I'm in 4th year of the same course as you (228 ?) and have also worked in IT for about 18 months mainly programming. I'll just tell you that maths is probably the least important of all the subjects you're doing at the moment, and after 2nd year you can forget about it completely. Good luck !

leeroybrown

The maths issue shouldn't be a problem at all. While having mathematical abilities can be a very useful asset/advantage and essential in some specific IT jobs most don't actually require anything other than general mathematical competence. If your other skills are up to the job then it'll rarely ever be an issue.

My view is that you should be able to learn as much if not more in your own time while in college as your course teaches you. A lot of the basic skills I use on a day to day basis were developed while in college but not directly because of my course.

As r0nn13 points out above it's important to figure out what you like doing. There are so many different jobs and different career paths out there. Many graduates end up having their career shaped purely based on what they did for their work placement, what their final year project was about or what the first job they were offered happened to be. Having some experience of a lot of areas will put you in a position to make a more informed decision and help you get the job you actually want. Also, having experience in other areas can be very valuable - I work in a niche area of system administration but I often find use for other unrelated skills that I've built up over the years.

The final piece of advice I'd give is to always endeavor to keep your skills up to date and make sure your work always interests and challenges you. I've seen so many people leave 'IT' because they let themselves get stuck in a rut and feel that they can't escape from it.

Naikon

Thanks very much everybody for the advice:)
I will keep all of the above in mind as i am sure most of the posters here now what they are talking about having worked in the Industry.
The thing about continuously learning is so true, I can't honesltly expect how anyone could work in IT without re-skilling tbh.
Again, thanks.

Kernel32

I agree with what everyone else said about maths. But a quick question. 10 or 12 years ago or so you wouldn't have been able to get into a Bsc in Computing with a C1 in at ordinary level. The course I first started required honours level or an A2 at ordinary level. Have these type of requirements been dropped over the years?

tywy

I was just thinking that too, I thought the maths requirement would have been higher, obviously not...

projectmayhem

tywy wrote:

I was just thinking that too, I thought the maths requirement would have been higher, obviously not...

people going into IT generally seem to have less and less knowledge of maths. i'm working while in college and maths has been scaled back big time. the idea originally was to stretch your brain matter a bit and flex the logic units in your mind. but the thing is, maths is a challenge because we build it up to be this awful demon we can't conquer...

programming, while equally steeped in logic, is something we think we can conquer, because it's set up that way in our heads.

...and that's why maths isn't so important

fguihen

you dont need terriffic maths. i am not the best at maths, but I still work in IT and enjoy it. And day to day, I rarely have to ues trigonometry, probability,calculus, algebra or anyother topics mathemathically related!

There are jobs out there in IT that require good maths, but the vast majority do not. you can add, subtract, multiply,divide and work out percentages youl be perfect for 95% of jobs out there.

Just work out what area of IT you want to get into. Im in databases and I find it quite challenging and interesting.

copacetic

Kernel32 wrote:

I agree with what everyone else said about maths. But a quick question. 10 or 12 years ago or so you wouldn't have been able to get into a Bsc in Computing with a C1 in at ordinary level. The course I first started required honours level or an A2 at ordinary level. Have these type of requirements been dropped over the years?

what course was that? I don't remember CS ever having those requirments here and certainly not 10 or 12 years ago. Engineering always has had those requirements, but it is much more maths focused.

Doctor DooM

I've spent time in both DIT and Maynooth doing computer science/technology degrees and I achieved a b2 in pass maths. I dont think there is any such requirement any more.

axer

Having a logical head is the most important thing a person needs for IT whether it be computer repairs, networking or programming. I dont think maths are that much important in IT unless you are going to be working with electronics.

layke

Kernel32 wrote:

I agree with what everyone else said about maths. But a quick question. 10 or 12 years ago or so you wouldn't have been able to get into a Bsc in Computing with a C1 in at ordinary level. The course I first started required honours level or an A2 at ordinary level. Have these type of requirements been dropped over the years?

Well the points have been dropping since 2001 and apparantly (and i'm sure the radio stations have been blowing this way out of proportion). I suppose it's just easier to get into the course you mentioned these days. Comparing to 2000 when I did my Leaving, everyone wanted to do IT because there was more money in it back then It was much harder for me as an average student to get in.

I suggest you ask that question in one of the college forums as they will probably be able to answer it better then I.

Conor108

On a different note, how much do you guys make in IT?

ixoy

I've barely used maths at all in the last two years and I've covered a reasonable range of IT skills - application servers, SQL/DB administration, Java programming, performance testing, etc. What maths requirements there was was very minimal so I don't think it being a weak area is anything to worry about.

More important a skill is thinking logically, being able to examine a problem, for example, and break it down into potential steps that might have triggered it. Or taking a final end goal - a piece of functionality - and having the discipline to build it up and decide on best approaches/strategies.

copacetic wrote:

what course was that? I don't remember CS ever having those requirments here and certainly not 10 or 12 years ago. Engineering always has had those requirements, but it is much more maths focused.

Computer Science in Trinity required a C3 Honours as a minimum when I did it in '97.

Conor108 wrote:

On a different note, how much do you guys make in IT?

I don't believe IT pays all that well, certainly not to how much you could make in an area like finance. You shouldn't go in with the mindset that you'll become lucratively rich - but you should be able to live comfortably and engage in a discipline you enjoy.
As to how much I make, I'm happy enough in some respects (after two years) but no way could I afford to get a house on what I'm getting paid (then again, who could).

Naikon

copacetic wrote:

what course was that? I don't remember CS ever having those requirements here and certainly not 10 or 12 years ago. Engineering always has had those requirements, but it is much more maths focused.

The only courses that require an A2(I think its actually a B3 now) in pass maths is IT in NUI galway.
Trinity does require a C3 in higher.

Most courses around the country only require a D3 minimum in pass from browsing qualifax for Computing courses.
Trinity appears to be more like an Engineering course though with "electotech" and the like.

I know a C1 isn't great at all, but in College I am finding maths not so bad tbh.
Understandably, maths would be very important for specific areas of programming like Newtonian games physics and electronic design.

Naikon

ixoy wrote:

You shouldn't go in with the mindset that you'll become lucratively rich - but you should be able to live comfortably and engage in a discipline you enjoy.

Sounds Cliche I know, but that is pretty much how I feel about situation tbh.

layke wrote:

Well the points have been dropping since 2001 and apparantly (and i'm sure the radio stations have been blowing this way out of proportion). I suppose it's just easier to get into the course you mentioned these days. Comparing to 2000 when I did my Leaving, everyone wanted to do IT because there was more money in it back then It was much harder for me as an average student to get in.

I suggest you ask that question in one of the college forums as they will probably be able to answer it better then I.

Yeah, the points have dropped by a fairly considerable amount.
I got 350 in my LC, but in the final round the course became vacant, so it became possible to get into the said course with 140 points(250 last year),provided you met the matriculation requirements.

dazberry

I've written software for 13 years commerically - and I'm far from being a Maths wiz either (Ordinary level B in the day). I have ran into Math difficulties three times...

The first time was some statistical algorithm, it took work and google but I got it - in the end.

The second was a job application that was declined because of my LC math, and the third was at interview stage when a significant math component came to light that I didn't think I could do and discussed this at the interview and subsequently didn't get the job.

Obviously the job thing is always disappointing - but having worked with contractors who couldn't actually write code - or good code in any case - and have dragged down whole teams, I'd rather not be the rotten apple.

D.

nesf

Naikon wrote:

The only courses that require an A2(I think its actually a B3 now) in pass maths is IT in NUI galway.
Trinity does require a C3 in higher.

Honestly I've met many people who did pass maths who could have easily have done well in honours if they'd only met the right teacher at some point. That you did pass maths for the leaving and didn't do well in it is neither here nor there. Either you can do the maths and handle the logical stuff in college or you can't.

Being good at solving logical problems and strong mathematical abilities tend to go hand in hand but honours maths is not a pre-requisite for having a decent head for logic. There may be some areas of IT not accessible to you because you aren't the best of maths, but they are few and you can easily avoid them and have a decent career. Maximise your strengths and minimise your weaknesses etc.

Nehpets

I'm starting CS too and just from curiousity what are the jobs like outside the area of "IT"? I've heard of people going into finance.

and Naikon, you say "tbh" too much!

Naikon

Nehpets wrote:

and Naikon, you say "tbh" too much!

It's not a habit. I swear:D
I would imagine jobs in stuff like Finance would be very well worth it if you have a head for it.
Just because you are doing CS does not mean you won't be able to get a job outside IT.
Employers hire you on the basis of your profile, not your degree.
A degree does not pigeonhole you to one career path for the rest of your life.

sgarvan

Naikon wrote:

It's not a habit. I swear:D
I would imagine jobs in stuff like Finance would be very well worth it if you have a head for it.
Just because you are doing CS does not mean you won't be able to get a job outside IT.
Employers hire you on the basis of your profile, not your degree.
A degree does not pigeonhole you to one career path for the rest of your life.

I completed the same course as you are doing in 2005. I didnt get the points to start the course and ended up doing a PLC to get into Kevin Street. I got a B1 in Ordinary maths in my leaving cert. As I said, I graduated in 2005, went on work placement in 2004 and was offered a job by the company and have been here since then. I am no mathematical genius and tbh actually failed 2nd year maths in Kevin Street (passed by compensation). In the 3ish years I have been working I came across 1 instance where I needed maths, and that was only last week.

So no need to worry.