My baby is sick - Need Advice

_Kaiser_

Righty, so I'm just after picking my motor (Auto 02 TDI Passat for those that dont know ) up after her 10k service.

She went in with the following requirements/symptoms:
- The usual change all the filters, oil etc.
- Identify why she's going through coolant at an abnormal rate, and what she's been leaking lately.
- Check the brake pads - squealing brakes lately.
- Aside from the above she's been driving fine.

Anyway the news is not good....
- The water pump is leaking
- 2 CV boots are burst
- Front/Rear brake discs are rusty (she's a UK import so this is a result of their councils salting the roads)
- Intercooler is leaking oil
- Worn turbo

Now... I bought it last year and was told the garage had just done a full service and changed the timing belt (mileage was 80k at that stage, 103 now). The original garage did another "full service" on it 6 months ago at 90k incidentially.

The fella who looked at her today tells me that the water pump SHOULD have been changed with the belt, and by the looks of it, it either wasn't done at all, or it is a VERY premature failure (these things are normally good for 80k he says). Unfortunately, changing it now, means dismantling the front end of the car, which in turn will require ANOTHER timing belt kit (belt, tensioner etc) and this alone could cost upwards of €600.

I was thinking that I could/should get her independently assessed by the AA too but from looking on their site, that's gonna be upwards of €225 by itself, so my question is this... Do I have a case to go back to the original garage and getting them to do this (and the brakes, and anything else listed that doesn't just happen overnight) seeing as they should have - to my mind - either been changed when they imported it (especially as I was told it was just fully serviced), or definitely at the last service? If so, what's the best way I should approach it/them as I was planning to ring them in the morning to discuss the whole thing.

Cheers for any advice guys...

cantdecide

Turbo is about due to go after 100k by all accounts. There's a crowd in the yellow pages who quoted me for a replacement turbo for an A4 I had for about half what the dealers wanted...

I'm asuming you bought the car here as an ex- UK car. IF they carried out the work, you definitely have a moral right for them to replace the pump if they didn't bother themselves with it- It probably only costs €50.

But legally???

PauloMN

Unless the car is still under warranty which I assume it's not, you have no comeback with the original garage. You could call them and see if they'll go any way towards helping you out either with a good rate on labour or cheaper parts, but the kind of garage that sells 2nd hand UK imports is probably not likely to help you out to be honest.

I'd bring it to a good independent mechanic and get a quote, compare the quote with whatever the other garage tells you.

crosstownk

cantdecide wrote:

Turbo is about due to go after 100k by all accounts.

I don't know about that - I've seen turbos survive well past 200k miles in Passats and A4s.

Kaiser, what's wrong with the turbo? 'Worn' is too vague - Is it leaking oil? Is your Passat down on power?

cantdecide

It's also likely that they've outsourced their mechanical work and you could find them fighting the battle for you, but i doubt it.

You have a good bloody car there and if €600 extra goes onto the purchase price, you can consider yourself a little more educated. A bit defeatist, I know, but you will only shorten your life if you try to get people like these to join the human race. Far too many geezers work in the car business...

cantdecide

crosstownk wrote:

I don't know about that - I've seen turbos survive well past 200k miles in Passats and A4s.

Kaiser, what's wrong with the turbo? 'Worn' is too vague - Is it leaking oil? Is your Passat down on power?

To be fair, My car had 130k miles at the time but I was told at the time that that was on the high end of average....

Couldn't a 200k passat be on it's second turbo?

_Kaiser_

crosstownk wrote:

I don't know about that - I've seen turbos survive well past 200k miles in Passats and A4s.

Kaiser, what's wrong with the turbo? 'Worn' is too vague - Is it leaking oil? Is your Passat down on power?

Power doesn't seem to be affected at all. She still stutters a little bit between 1800 and 2000 rpm but I understand that's a common thing, and it's not as bad as it was before the last service.

About 3 weeks ago I got the red STOP Check Coolant light on the dash when I was leaving for work. Opened the bonnet and the level was well below the minimum (this in the space of a week as I check all the levels regularly) so I called my housemate (who has the same car) and he told me to just put some water in it in the meantime. I've been doing this since then until I got her in for the service today, and on average I've had to refill it every 7-10 days.. it doesn't seem to be gradual. It can be fine one day and almost empty the next.

She has been leaking coolant/water, under the left front wheel (not that much though either) but aside from that there's been no impact from a driveability standpoint, save that the rev counter rises intermittently (not by much) and momentarily while stopped in traffic for example, and the fuel economy is gone to hell A full tank used to last me about a week and a half/2 weeks... now I'm getting about 7/8 days out if it.

crosstownk

cantdecide wrote:

To be fair, My car had 130k miles at the time but I was told at the time that that was on the high end of average....

Couldn't a 200k passat be on it's second turbo?

I've numerous Passats on fleet and while I've had a few turbos replaced - it's nothing near 'epidemic' proportions of every Passat needing one at 100k. In fact, at a maximum, maybe 5% had new turbos. And I'm talking 3B Passats - even less with the 3Cs.

Kaiser2000 wrote:

- The water pump is leaking

They really should be replaced with each t/belt change - but it is possible (with low odds) that it could fail prematurely in which case you should still have parts warranty as a minimum.

Kaiser2000 wrote:

- 2 CV boots are burst

It can happen, but two gone at once is less likely than just one - ask to see the torn CVJ boots before they are removed from your car.

Kaiser2000 wrote:

- Front/Rear brake discs are rusty (she's a UK import so this is a result of their councils salting the roads)

I wouldn't worry about this - once the braking surface is OK with no excessive wear then the discs are OK.

Kaiser2000 wrote:

- Intercooler is leaking oil

Unfortunately this has been a regular fault with VWs since the MkII Golf GTI - No surprise to hear, tbh. It could possibly explain your coolant problem too

Kaiser2000 wrote:

- Worn turbo

Like I said before, worn is too vague a diagnosis - see if you can get a more specific reason as to why the turbo needs replacing.

_Kaiser_

Update...

I rang the garage I bought it from this afternoon and told him about the list of things I've been told need doing.

He says he didn't change the water pump with the timing belt at 80k as they didn't need to take the front of the car apart to do this. Is this even possible? Everything I've heard/read about the Passat says that the timing belt is such a messy/expensive job precisely because you have to take it all apart.

Anyway, he wants me to bring it up to him next week and is quoting me new discs, water pump, sort the intercooler (he said something about flushing it out) and belt kit for around the €5-600 mark.

What do ye reckon?

cantdecide

I think it's not such a messy job but just time consuming because of the amount of stripping.

The same still stands though- If they've changed the belt and not the pump, you should feed it to him. This is just classic corner cutting. The pump is cheap and it's a standard service part with the t/belt. There's no such thing as going back and doing it later.

It's probably fair to assume the brakes are simply due, so I wouldn't arg this, the car will be better for having them done and they are also a service part.

I was charged €2200 for t/belt, discs & pads, diff seals, a lower front control arm and a door mechanism, when I landed my car lat March, so assuming you get satisfaction with the pump/ belt, you're not doing too bad.

_Kaiser_

cantdecide wrote:

I think it's not such a messy job but just time consuming because of the amount of stripping.

The same still stands though- If they've changed the belt and not the pump, you should feed it to him. This is just classic corner cutting. The pump is cheap and it's a standard service part with the t/belt. There's no such thing as going back and doing it later.

It's probably fair to assume the brakes are simply due, so I wouldn't arg this, the car will be better for having them done and they are also a service part.

I was charged €2200 for t/belt, discs & pads, diff seals, a lower front control arm and a door mechanism, when I landed my car lat March, so assuming you get satisfaction with the pump/ belt, you're not doing too bad.

I know.. I'm just wary of the price which is substantially lower (by several hundred) than the estimate I was given yesterday, and the fact that the original guy seems to think it's not that big a job whereas the fella yesterday was telling me the whole front end would have to be stripped.

So was he just trying to pad out the repair bill, or is the original guy worried he's been caught out etc. And should I insist on the water pump being covered free regardless (and the timing belt as it wouldn't have to be removed again now if they'd changed the pump in the first place etc..)

My head hurts

_Kaiser_

Just an update on this story....

I brought the car back to the original garage I bought her from and let him "have at it" with the list I got from the other guy. At this stage then he's:

- Replaced the front brake discs and all brake pads (although the squealing has now moved from the front left to the rear right wheel)
- Replaced the water pump (took two attempts as after stripping it down, they discovered they had the wrong part)
- Changed the front passenger door lock (it would keep popping up when locked via the central locking switch - again took 2 visits as they ordered the wrong part)
- I don't know what'd been done about the CV boots as I haven't been given an invoice yet. The ride does seem a bit rough though.
- There's oil still leaking into the intercooler and the turbo is still "worn".
To fix this last one will require replacing the turbo I'm told (€690 ex-vat just for the parts?).

All the above has taken place over the past 2 weeks. I also had to bring it back to him after the plastic tray under the front of the car came loose on a main road. Took a call to the AA to take it off entirely so I could at least drive home.

During this time I asked several times for a quote and was told "around" the €600 mark + whatever for the door lock. Final bill (so far) is now over €750 for the above.

Right so, more than I expected but I was gonna go up yesterday and sort it when I got a new set of warning lights on the dash - ESP light is on (pressing the button on the dash has no effect) and I have a flashing yellow "coil" symbol with ENGINE WORKSHOP! on the display. The car does drive ok though (I took it around the block to test after I called the garage).

I rang again in a somewhat exasperated mood - it just seems that every time one thing gets fixed, something ELSE goes wrong - and told him that in my opinion I shouldn't be experiencing this amount of problems with a car that I've only had 14 months, and which has been "fully serviced" by themselves 3 times so far (just before I bought it, 6 months ago, and now again) at a cost (so far - not including the turbo quote) of almost €1500

His response was that he can't predict what will go wrong in a car, but says he'll look into either a replacement car, trading mine in against it (and expecting me to pay a few grand in the difference), or that I may have to just bite the bullet and pay to get it fixed up right. He's to call me tomorrow.

Sorry for the long post guys, and I'm not looking for legal advice or anything, but what would you do? Am I wrong to think that all this seems excessive? I don't "abuse" the car. It spends most of it's life on the N3/M50 and the staff in work are sick of me going on about my "baby" , but I could do with some opinions at this stage.

Cheers

Mr.Diagnostic

Hi,

Sometimes cheap is not best. The squealing rear brakes could be due to cheap pads. Not fitting the water pump first time round was a cheap dodge and not a good idea. This combined with the problems with the management system and the undertray falling off would not be too confidence inspiring. From reading your posts it seems you don’t have too much confidence in them anyway.

The garage who looked at it and quoted you the higher price may have been pricing it to enable them do it properly. As an aside I hope you paid them for looking at it and giving you a report or you may find it difficult to go back to them if need be. A report of exactly what state it is in is what you need now.
I think you may have made a mistake in your choice of garage but now that you have allowed them at it you really need to give them the opportunity to fix the problems.

Maybe the best option would be to agree a figure for the bill as it stands now and bring the car to someone else.

quarryman

sell her?

sometimes you can buy a car that just goes wrong, ALL the time.

Might be worth cutting your losses and trading it in. You could be spending another 1500 in 6 months on something else....

_Kaiser_

Mr.Diagnostic wrote: »

Hi,

Sometimes cheap is not best. The squealing rear brakes could be due to cheap pads. Not fitting the water pump first time round was a cheap dodge and not a good idea. This combined with the problems with the management system and the undertray falling off would not be too confidence inspiring. From reading your posts it seems you don’t have too much confidence in them anyway.

The garage who looked at it and quoted you the higher price may have been pricing it to enable them do it properly. As an aside I hope you paid them for looking at it and giving you a report or you may find it difficult to go back to them if need be. A report of exactly what state it is in is what you need now.
I think you may have made a mistake in your choice of garage but now that you have allowed them at it you really need to give them the opportunity to fix the problems.

Maybe the best option would be to agree a figure for the bill as it stands now and bring the car to someone else.

Thanks for the reply...

You're right in that my confidence in the guy I bought it from is less than solid at this point. Every time I have to bring it up to him it involves a day off work. And fair enough, that's not their problem but to sit around all day and then get told at the end that the work wasn't done anyway because they ordered the wrong parts/didn't have it for the day agreed is very annoying.

Add to that the seemingly neverending issues with the car -as I say, it just seems to be costing more and more every time I get it looked at - and I'm thinking maybe it IS best just to get rid of it at this stage, and get a new(er) one? But the reason I went back to the original crowd wasn't just a cost issue, but because of the nature of the problems.

In my opinion, and maybe I'm wrong?, I shouldn't be havign this amount (and type) of problems with a car that is only 5 years old, that I've only owned for 14 months and which has been fully serviced by that same garage 3 times over that period (and they've seen it a few times in between too - things like the door lock for example which started off "catching" when you'd open the door but was never fixed right, or the rear left interior light that sometimes works, sometimes doesn't - minor yes, but it's still an annoyance).

I know about the whole "buyer beware" thing but at the same time, the car (or any good) should be fit for the purpose, and I'm starting to doubt that at this stage.

Incidentially, I did indeed pay the 2nd guy that looked at it and he himself suggested I could try the original garage because of the amount and type of issues he'd discovered, so I could go back to him (or elsewhere), but I guess I'm not sure if it's worth putting any more money into it at this point vs trading it in against a newer replacement. At what point do you cut your losses and move on?

Hagar

Slight off topic.

If you do trade in with the original guy, it would be interesting to speculate whether all the faults highlighted would be rectified before re-sale.
My spider sense says "like feck they will".

Spit62500

Hagar wrote: »

Slight off topic.

If you do trade in with the original guy, it would be interesting to speculate whether all the faults highlighted would be rectified before re-sale.
My spider sense says "like feck they will".

Either that or he knows that he can rectify it all quite cheaply and he'll make a tidy profit...

Captain Slow IRL

it might not necessarily be the turbo, get them to check the solenoid on the dump valve (assuming it's causing a loss in power)
this would be a far cheaper place to start that replacing the turbo

MugMugs

You are being taken to town and for a ride big time....

A) Worn Turbo ( yeah right ) either remove this for yourself ( or google how to do it ) and send it off to any number of Turbo Refurbishing agency's in the UK and Ireland....

Use a different garage and learn a lesson....

bcmf

The Turbo and intercooler are interlinked.A blocked intercooler really wont help your turbo.Get someone to clean out your intercooler.People with Turbo engingines learn how to look after your turbo.Warm up and wind down*.They are expensive parts to replace.If your intercooler is gunged up it will not help with power or mpg.

If your car has ABS DONT let anyone near the brake system who does not know about changing pads with ABS.In fact unless you have 110% confidence that your mechanic knows about the ABS system I would only use a main dealer.A bit more expensive but if they **** it up then it is a lot easier to get it sorted then am independent garage.


*Let your the oil get to your turbo before driving off.ie dont switch on your engine then drive.Switch on your engine FIRST then do your seatbelts etc etc then drive off.Even the turbo spinning for a couple of secs without oil will do a lot of damage.
When you stop leave the engine running for as long as poss in idle before switching it off (thats why boy racers have turbo timers).This allows cool oil to get to the turbo and lets the turbo too completly slow down remember a turbo is spinning at a much higher rate then your engine!!!!
Fitting a new/rebuilt turbo can easily cost a grand.I know from experience:(:(