Accountants without a clue

Bren1609

I've taken this quote from a previous thread and decided to start a seperate thread on this point.

The Bull McCabe wrote:

guy who had just done his finals in ACCA couldn't even calculate wages correctly.

I'm sure that people here who work in practice will have come across this on a few occasions. Let me first give a few of my own personal experiences.

I once worked with a fella from big 4 who couldn't do a bank rec. I couldnt believe it!

I currently work in a small practice. Recently I was on an audit where the FC was a qualified accountant (I dont know which body). I had to drag a TB out of her, she had no bank rec and she had lease liabilities as debits in her BS. The best part is that there was a €3.4m loan which was drawndown and repaid in the same year which wasnt reflected in the accounts When I queried her about it she clearly didnt follow the concept. The worst part is she's on 80k and nobody is the wiser.

This is not an isolated incident. How is it possible for people to work in this capacity as an "Accountant" and be so incompetent???

Please share any thoughts or experiences.

JoeTurner

I agree with all you've said.

I think a lot of people qualify in practice and then move into industry never using the basic skills again whilst retaining the qualification and title. In terms of ongoing continuing professional development, there isn't much monitoring going on - I know my professional regulator only requires a box to be ticked on the annual membership renewal.

In terms of real-life experience I've worked with some real beauts - FC's who can't even log into the general ledger system being a prime example. They don't exactly inspire confidence....

It gets the rest of us a bad name!

kluivert

Still waters run deep....

With reference only to the ACCA...once qualified you must complete a minimum required no. of CPD hours.

With companies such as the big four you have a problem of task orientated jobs, one person prepares the bank rec, another person prepares the vat control etc to a certain degree. Once this has been done it gets passed to the next level probably audit who then work on their tasks.

Working in a smaller practice, from experience, I think is great for starting out. My first job was a farmers accounts. I thought once I had finished the bank reconciliation that I would pass it onto someone more experience, however that was not the case and the boss asked me to finish accounts and also prepare tax comp's for the farmer as well.

This was the idea with every client who you where assigned to. Sole trader, audit exempt, audit clients, it was all the same, you started so you finish.

After three years, I was fairly experienced in all areas. Therefore I believe that while learning how to answer questions in an exam is a good way of testing yoru knowledge on a subject, there is no real substitue for hands on experience and I believe that I learned more about accounting audit and taxation from workign in practice than I done from uni.

I also believe that working in a smaller practice with some large clients was a benefit than working in one of the big4, although in 2004 I did start on a trainee wage of 12.5k a year. The only bad point.

I would find it hard to believe that the accountant mentioned above didnt know how to calculate wages, hopefully he just meant that he couldnt remember that exact rates to use

chump

kluivert wrote:

Still waters run deep....

With reference only to the ACCA...once qualified you must complete a minimum required no. of CPD hours.

With companies such as the big four you have a problem of task orientated jobs, one person prepares the bank rec, another person prepares the vat control etc to a certain degree. Once this has been done it gets passed to the next level probably audit who then work on their tasks.
...

I also believe that working in a smaller practice with some large clients was a benefit than working in one of the big4, although in 2004 I did start on a trainee wage of 12.5k a year. The only bad point.

I would find it hard to believe that the accountant mentioned above didnt know how to calculate wages, hopefully he just meant that he couldnt remember that exact rates to use

wrong wrong wrong and biased

Give your own experience for sure, but don't portray a big4 opinion when it's second hand and not at all factual.

Bren1609

Looks like chump has the hump.

I think Kluivert has a point with Big 4. All audit and no accounts prep. ie they a/cs are already prepared and they audit them.

Newaglish

One could also make a post along the lines of "I went on an audit with this guy from a smaller firm and he didn't know what the heck he was doing - all accounts prep and no audit"

Surely it's just a slightly different emphasis of specialisation re: small v big firms?

Incidentally, the guy in your original post sounds like an idiot. I can do a bank rec and I don't work in a smaller practice OR an audit department!

There are some truly shocking qualified a/cs walking around though - I guess it's the same with every profession. It'd be fairly easy to coast through your training contract without trying to learn anything or gain varied experience and then scrape the exams as well. It's scary to think these people have such legal and ethical responsible over the accounts they prepare/audit and the advice they give to people. If I was that incompetent I would be crapping myself every day that I'd make some sort of major balls-up!

Cantoris

Having trained in a big 4 and worked with people from smaller practices, there are problems everywhere. For example, some of the guys that worked for me couldn't understand a bank rec or a simple debit and credit (no joking - it used to break my heart!). Others are very clued in, getting plenty of exposure to some basic commercial realities in big business, meeting senior management and identifying key issues and presenting to the board of directors. And then there are the guys from small practices who can post any transaction you want, down to the last penny but sometimes never see the big picture, the risks associated with a large business and the commercial realities which push management to manipulate accounts to suit themselves. And then there are the few small practice guys who are so clued in that they know everything from tax to law and have the helicopter view of how business works and what you should see. I must say, they are the best qualified of all but they are rarer that you think.

ircoha

kluivert: surprised at you, as mod, letting this run.

BREN1609:
What is the purpose of this post in a forum which is designed to help people with all sorts of accounting/accountancy issues?


Without meaning to offend any of the other religions here:
<Let the One Without Sin Cast the First Stone> springs to mind when posters belittle, disparage and otherwise insult others for their intellectual, and other shortcomings.

What concept are you referring to when you write:

The best part is that there was a €3.4m loan which was drawndown and repaid in the same year which wasnt reflected in the accounts When I queried her about it she clearly didnt follow the concept.

Please let us have the accounting entries, notes to the accounts and the accounting policies as you see them for this loan?

Cantoris

ircoha wrote:

Please let us have the accounting entries, notes to the accounts and the accounting policies as you see them for this loan?

I presume our poster is concerned that there is an interest charge in the P&L (or maybe not!!) which needs to be disclosed under statutory discloures and to inform the reader of the nature of the charge, supplementary information should be disclosed. Would you agree?

Bren1609

ircoha wrote:

kluivert: surprised at you, as mod, letting this run.

BREN1609:
What is the purpose of this post in a forum which is designed to help people with all sorts of accounting/accountancy issues?

IROCHA

This appears to be a general theme of yours. As per a previous thread.

ircoha wrote:

And the point of this un-referenced piece being?

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=53800089#post53800089

Since when do you determine what is relavant and what is not?
As for "helping people with accounting issues" Dont I remember you posting on this site telling people to google their queries???

Also, can you please point out what "insulting" or "disparaging" remarks that I made as I havnt been made aware of any.

ircoha wrote:

What concept are you referring to when you write

:
As for the concept... how about the matching concept of a debit and a credit. As for the rest, I suggest you google them.