Trevor Brennans new book looks good

Killme00

Irish Times wrote:

Now you see me, now you don't
In this first extract from his new book, Heart and Soul , Trevor Brennan explains how his Ireland international career came to an abrupt and unexpected end - and how it still hurts.

I'm not usually one of the first out of the showers, and I wish I hadn't been at Twickenham in February 2000. Eddie O'Sullivan had arrived as assistant coach after the 1999 World Cup, and the bulk of the side was retained for that Six Nations opener. We were beaten 50-18.

Although I'd only been a second-half replacement along with Mick Galwey and Girvan Dempsey, John Redmond asked me and a few other players to do the post-match press conferences. I should have said no, in hindsight, but John insisted that I do it as no one else was volunteering. How do you answer a barrage of questions from journalists when you've shipped 50 points? "We were unlucky?"

We had talked all week about being men, about standing up to be counted, about wrapping up ball and man in the tackle. But on the day, we had done none of it. I spoke honestly and from the heart. "They (England) just offloaded in the tackle with ease. I think we should have tried to wrap man and ball up. We weren't 100 per cent committed in the tackle, and when you're not 100 per cent committed in the tackle it just makes it easier for the man to offload.

"What fellas said, the commitment they'd give, during the week and in the dressingroom before, it just didn't seem to be carried out on to the pitch, which was disappointing really."

I also said that the decision to kick for the posts or the corner when we were already well beaten was disheartening. "If we'd just tapped and put it through hands and put them under the same pressure that they put us under in the first half. I think that's the way forward really. Not to slow things down. I can't see any point in going for three points when you're 30-40 down with 20 minutes to go."

If I was a coach, or a captain, of any team that would be the last thing I'd be telling my players to do. Something I've learned even more since coming to Toulouse.

Kieron Dawson was just as candid. "We were awful. Our defence was all over the shop. We were at sixes and sevens half the time. Our tackling was substandard. Very poor in fact. Obviously, you're not going to do much with these flaws."

All of that was true too, and the pundits rubbished our performance. I was widely quoted in the next day's papers. One player took me aside and suggested that speaking in such a manner might jeopardise my selection prospects, and that I really shouldn't be so candid.

Kieron remained in the team, but, whether it was coincidental or not, I wasn't picked for the next game at home to Scotland. Ireland made five changes to the starting line-up. Even though I'd been on the bench in Twickenham, I was dropped from the 22. Why drop someone from the bench? I could never quite figure that one out. It doesn't make sense.

Anyone will tell you that if a player is dropped, it should be the one who started, not the one who came off the bench. What happened was, in my view, totally wrong. They dropped a player who came on for the last 32 minutes when the score was already 32-3, made a massive hit on Lawrence Dallaglio, gave away no penalties, and could hardly be blamed for Ireland losing by 50-18.

Changes had to be made after Twickenham. But if anything, myself, Gaillimh and Girvan had made a positive impact from the bench. To be honest, I thought I had a good chance of being promoted. But they brought in five new caps; Peter Stringer, Ronan O'Gara, Shane Horgan, John Hayes and Simon Easterby. And they recalled Gaillimh, Girvan Dempsey and Denis Hickie.

I rang Donal Lenihan. He told me to train with the A squad, who were preparing to play Scotland in Donnybrook. "How are you Trev? Good to see you," said A coach Declan Kidney, greeting me warmly. Before adding, "I'm afraid you're not playing."

I thought to myself: "This is going from bad to worse."

In fact, I wasn't included in any of the four remaining A games. Even on the bench. It looked like they were making a point. My name vanished off the radar. I can't help but think this was at least partly because of what I had said to the press.

My Test career was more or less over.

I wasn't picked for Ireland for a year and eight months. My head was in the shed again. As much as I wanted to play for my country, this whole episode left me disillusioned. As well as vanishing from the radar for the rest of that season (even for the As), I wasn't included in the 28-man squad to tour the Americas, I was overlooked the following autumn against Japan, the 2001 Six Nations and even the Romanian match in June, when Ireland were short six Lions.

I owe my last recall to the foot-and-mouth epidemic (which meant rearranged matches the following September and October), a lousy Irish performance in a 32-10 defeat to Scotland and Gary Longwell breaking his finger. Desperate times call for desperate measures!

I was playing out of my skin for Mary's and Leinster, and I suppose that might have had something to do with my brief recall. Matt Williams had been using me as a secondrow as well as a backrow.

After one game in Donnybrook, Gatty came up to me and said: "Well played Trev. Keep it up and I might have a place in the World Cup squad for you."

"Is that all you've got for me?" I said, being a bit of a smart ass.

By then I didn't give a toss about them. I reckoned I had nothing to lose. I was enjoying my rugby, but no more was I going to be the little doggy. Gatty's congratulations meant little to me at the time. I couldn't care if he thought I was Zinzan Brooke re-incarnated. But one day soon after, in my parents' house, I got a call out of the blue from Irish manager Brian O'Brien.

"How are ye going kid?"

"Alright thanks. Who's this?" I asked, not recognising the accent.

"Brian O'Brien."

"Yeah?"

"Yeah, Brian O'Brien - Ireland."

Brian O'Brien - Ireland, who the hell is Brian O'Brien, I thought to myself. Donal Lenihan had departed to manage the Lions the previous summer. As for Ireland, it had been nearly two years since I'd played for them. I knew Brian to see, obviously, but it just hadn't registered.

"Kid, listen. The big man from Ulster had an accident today."

"Who? What big man?" I asked.

"Gary Longwell."

The penny dropped.

"What do you want me to do?" I said, now realising who it was.

"Ah, we need you to come out here."

"For what? Do you want me to hold bags?" I said. I'd been asked along to the odd session here and there, when that's what I'd mostly done.

"Nah kid, this looks like the big one. Gatty wants you on board and on the bench."

This was the Tuesday or Wednesday before Ireland played Wales in the Millennium Stadium, in the second of the re-arranged matches. It was horrible arriving in the Glenview Hotel, Wicklow that evening. I drove up the M50 through rush hour traffic and arrived as the squad were having dinner. I checked in, put my stuff in the room and went down to join them. I shook hands with some of the lads I hadn't spoken to in over a year and said hello to the management, letting on I was delighted to be there.

"Get yourself a bit of grub and settle in there, kid."

They carried on eating, so I grabbed a plate of food and looked around for an empty seat, before going back to my room and unpacking. I went to training the next morning. Throughout the week there was no one-on-one communication with any of the management to explain why I'd been recalled. I didn't feel a part of it at all. Then one day I asked Brian if I was entitled to tickets for the game.

"Oh yes you are, kid. How many do you want?"

I asked for two. But it was all last-minute stuff, the hotels were booked up and nobody from my family could make it over. The night before the game, I recall walking around Cardiff on my own. No one really recognised me apart from two young Irish lads standing outside a pub asking if anybody had tickets. I went back to them.

"Have you no tickets for the game lads?"

"No," they said. "Here you go lads. Here's two stand tickets for you."

"My da is inside, will you wait here while I tell him?" said one of them. His father came out and asked me to come in and say hello. He was delighted that I'd given the tickets to the lads and insisted on buying me a drink. I had a coke with them and made my way back to the hotel.

The pressure on both teams to win was huge. And it showed. I came on in the 58th minute for Mick Galwey, alongside Malcolm O'Kelly in the secondrow. I was comfortable playing with Mal. We'd played together at Mary's and Leinster. Ireland were leading 15-6 at that point. We went on to win 36-6 with three tries in the last six minutes. Mal called for the first of the Welsh restarts after I came on, but I shouted: "Mal, leave it."

I did the same with the next one. It felt good to be back in the zone. For the next game against England I was retained on the bench. They were going for the Grand Slam. On the morning of the match we walked to Lansdowne Road from the Berkeley Court and practiced our lineouts on the back pitch behind the East Stand. They went really crisply. There was no confusion over the calls. Hardly a ball was put down.

On our way back to the hotel I remember Gatty saying to me: "It feels good, doesn't it?"

"I don't know what it is Gatty. But there's something in the air. I have a good feeling about today."

"So do I," he agreed. "I have that feeling too."

England used the same calls as the Lions, and as Mal knew them all, we cleaned out their lineouts. Myself and the Warrior, Emmet Byrne, came on in the 67th minute, with me replacing Gaillimh again to play alongside Mal. I thought I'd made a good impression. I put in a big hit on Jonny Wilkinson, and made a tap tackle on Austin Healey. I was happy, not least because we beat them. We didn't beat England too often in those days, and had lost to them six times in a row before that game.

Although much was made of Martin Johnson and Lawrence Dallaglio being injured, that was still a very good English team; Greenwood, Catt, Wilkinson, Dawson, Leonard, White, Shaw, Grewcock, Corry, Back, Hill

. . . all of whom would go on to win the World Cup.

The Lansdowne Road crowd were incredible that day and it was marvellous to be a part of it. The day after the English game we went clay pigeon shooting, had a couple of pints in Aughrim, and returned to the Glenview.

I was wrecked after the night before, but Gatty said that it was obligatory for everyone to come for a meal in a restaurant in Bray. "You'll enjoy it. It'll be a good night."

I sat at the dinner table with Gatty to my right and Rala (Paddy O'Reilly, the Irish bagman) to my left.

"Is he here yet?" Gatty asked Rala across me.

"Not yet," said Rala.

I interrupted them. "Is who here yet?"

"Ah there's a bit of music organised for the boys," Gatty said. "Say nothing to the lads."

"Is it a band?"

"Kind of," he said.

"What kind of music is it?" I asked him. "A bit of traditional music."

"Oh I love the old bit of traditional Gatty," I said.

"I know you do, Trevor."

After a lovely meal, we went downstairs to the bar below the restaurant and in walked Christy Moore. Gatty knew I loved Christy. I was like a kid in a sweet shop. At first there were only another 20 people in the bar, but after a flurry of texts, by the time Christy was into his third song, there was more like 200. We were right at the front.

As I'd been singing along, he asked me to join him. So I belted out An Ordinary Man with him and then we presented him with a signed, framed Irish jersey. I was delighted to sing with him and I took off my Irish polo top to give to him. One of the nights of my life. I have an autographed, framed picture of the two of us on my wall back home in Castelginest.

Two weeks later, I was on the bench again for the match against Samoa. Myself and Simon Easterby came on for Eric Miller and Anthony Foley at half-time, and we won 35-8.

To be honest, the night was more memorable than the match. I'd been in the bar having a few drinks with my family, and was a little late for the dinner. There were no seats left except at a table with six or seven Samoans. I was lucky to have a long chat with their coach, Michael Jones, one of the legends of the game dating back to my New Zealand trip in '93. I told him of my time there, and we exchanged a few stories.

Normally, the post-match dinner is a staid affair, but the Samoans walked to the front of the room, took off their jackets and shirts, and put on a show of songs and war dances. I played drinking games with the seven Samoans, and traded songs. It was a really relaxed night. Little did I know that I'd never play for Ireland again. Or that I'd never be in that Berkeley Court function room again.

Maybe I was naïve, but I truly expected things were going to kick off for me from there. When we played New Zealand the following week, I wasn't even given a ticket.

I fulfilled a speaking engagement on the day for some sponsor and asked him: "Would there be any chance of a ticket?"

"You need a ticket?" yer man said, shocked.

I'm sure I could have acquired one from the union, but I didn't want to ask. Ireland played superbly. Miller scored a brilliant try and at half-time. I said: "Jaysus, Ireland are going to beat the All Blacks today."

The All Blacks, though, were awesome in the last half-hour and won 40-29. If Ireland had won that day, Gatty wouldn't have got the heave and I'd probably have earned a few more caps. But the defeat to the All Blacks gave them their excuse. Gatty's cards were probably marked after the Murrayfield defeat.

Perhaps my cards were always marked. Fellas can get 13 or more caps in a season, but I earned my 13 over a three-year period. When I think of all the different teams I've played with, in many ways the least enjoyable were with Ireland. With Ireland, players come together from different provinces and clubs, and I never felt entirely comfortable in that set-up. I never felt it was long-term. It always felt short-term.

The last three caps were especially bad. I was delighted to get them, but I hated them in some ways. When I was recalled for that Welsh game, after 20 months out of the loop, I'd been told to get some grub . . . and that was it. I played some good rugby for Ireland.

My best and only decent run of starts were the four games against Australia in Perth, the World Cup warm-up match against Australia and the two World Cup games against the USA and Australia. The fight with Kefu - and the citing that followed - was one of only two bad experiences I had with Ireland; the other was the 10-9 defeat to France in '99.

But it's worth stressing that I never picked up either a red, or even a yellow card, playing with Ireland. My best games were probably against Italy, in my first start, and against Argentina and the USA, when Woody scored his four tries. I think it was an achievement merely to play for Ireland, given where I came from. It always will be. But I also believe I should have won at least 20 caps more. At the absolute minimum.

If you go through the list of 20 or so players who've since played for Ireland in the secondrow - or at number six, or combining the two - ahead of me, some are undoubtedly class acts. But you can't convince me that all of them were head and shoulders above me. And that's not including all those who've played for Ireland A.

Many of them were playing on losing Celtic League and Heineken Cup teams

Maybe I wasn't forgiven for being unavailable to tour New Zealand in 2002 when I needed a shoulder operation before joining Toulouse. I wasn't included as one of the 37 players used on the summer tour to Australia, Tonga and Samoa in the summer of 2003. I believe I was better than some of them, and that I should have been in the World Cup squad in 2003.

In my second year with Toulouse, we reached another European Cup final. But I was completely overlooked by the Irish management all season - even for A squads. And so on it went. I wasn't even picked for a tour to Japan in 2005, when Ireland had 10 or more players with the Lions. I didn't even make the Churchill Cup.

Surely there was an argument, on a horses for courses basis, for picking a player in form playing on a successful team?

In three years we reached three European Cup finals. I was on the bench for the first game, against London Irish, and then started every other European game in those three years. We were twice champions of Europe, and made the semi-finals or final of the French Championship every year. Can anyone tell me I wasn't good enough to go to Tonga and Samoa, or Japan. Or even the Churchill Cup?

I believe it was decided that my face didn't fit. Who knows. I don't. No one has ever told me. It still rankles after all these years.

Trevor Brennan: Heart and Soul , with Gerry Thornley, is published by Red Rock Press (16.99) and is available countrywide from this week

A decent read..looking forward to the bit about the Ulster fans

tHE vAGGABOND

17 quid? No way, thank you!

As somone said on another forum, He was a thug on the pitch who ended his career being a brave man punching a spectator less than half his size.

madds

Yeah, have been looking fwd to this one. Anyone know exactly what day it is out?

zAbbo

It'll be interesting read nonetheless.

Just after finishing Austin Healys book, which I thought was quite good as well.

Punchbowl

tHE vAGGABOND wrote:

17 quid? No way, thank you!

As somone said on another forum, He was a thug on the pitch who ended his career being a brave man punching a spectator less than half his size.

Well, I know of a bunch of lads who could do with some of his passion.. However, always thought he was an anateur player trapped in a professionals body. Could be a very interesting read, considering he has no alligiences to the Union (Rugby)

nacho libre

Is it me or does he come across as a bit of troublemaker in that passage? He seems to have a lot of regard for himself too

ThomasH

Was he ever really that great?? Me thinks he has a chip on his shoulder.

jmayo

ThomasH wrote:

Was he ever really that great?? Me thinks he has a chip on his shoulder.

Why shouldn't he ?
He was treated like sh*te, when players that were playing at lower standards week in week out were picked ahead of him, even for the A team or mickey mouse tours for fcuks sake.
And people then wonder why the team is such a shambles at the moment :rolleyes:

If he was such a thug as mentioned by other poster why then would one of the best teams in Europe (not counting one Leinster win against them as measure of them) have him in their squad ?
Maybe if the current Irish team showed half his agression we wouldn't heading out the door in France.

Not good enough for Leinster, but good enough for Toulose :rolleyes:
How many Heineken cups do each have ?

tHE vAGGABOND

He was treated like sh*te, when players that were playing at lower standards week in week out were picked ahead of him, even for the A team or mickey mouse tours for fcuks sake.
And people then wonder why the team is such a shambles at the moment

Im not messing, but the team a shambles as they dont do that anymore

I fully support picking young lads with potential ahead of older lads with less potential [even if the older lads are better right now]

If we did that, we may have a bench worth talking about, and JUST MAYBE we would have a sub Out Half's and Prop's [etc] who have played more than 5 minutes of international rugby

jmayo

tHE vAGGABOND wrote:

Im not messing, but the team a shambles as they dont do that anymore

I fully support picking young lads with potential ahead of older lads with less potential [even if the older lads are better right now]

If we did that, we may have a bench worth talking about, and JUST MAYBE we would have a sub Out Half's and Prop's [etc] who have played more than 5 minutes of international rugby

You can correct me on this, weren't Humphreys, Reggie Corrigan brought on Japan tour so why not bring Brennan.
Neither of above were exactly young or had only played 5 minutes international rugby.

Brennan was playing in the French league for one of it's best teams and yet did not get a call up for the Irish squad during that time.
That has to raise questions about the management and this is same management that are doing so well at moment :mad:
It was the old story, something happened or someone did not like him so he was dropped.

Ulstermell0

nacho libre wrote:

Is it me or does he come across as a bit of troublemaker in that passage? He seems to have a lot of regard for himself too

exactly. 'i should have had at least 20 more caps?' get over yerself man!

sounds to me like no one liked him - and if thats the case then i can see why he wasn't picked. not good for team chemistry.

those frogs can play with anyone!

remus808

Although I think it might be an interesting book, I really don't like the man. He's brash and arrogant and bitter. Really just not a nice guy

But what about this?

England used the same calls as the Lions, and as Mal knew them all, we cleaned out their lineouts.

It intrigues me how this was allowed to happen? Is this an exaggeration.. surely England would have realised/copped on to this?

marco_polo

karmabass wrote:

It intrigues me how this was allowed to happen? Is this an exaggeration.. surely England would have realised/copped on to this?

Can you really change them in game having worked on them all week? (or since the previous Lions tour ). Once you have been rumbled, I wouldimagine you only have two options really either start varying/shortening the lineout or carry on as is. Guess England chose the latter and paid the price.

Catcher86

jmayo wrote:

Why shouldn't he ?
He was treated like sh*te, when players that were playing at lower standards week in week out were picked ahead of him, even for the A team or mickey mouse tours for fcuks sake.
And people then wonder why the team is such a shambles at the moment :rolleyes:

If he was such a thug as mentioned by other poster why then would one of the best teams in Europe (not counting one Leinster win against them as measure of them) have him in their squad ?
Maybe if the current Irish team showed half his agression we wouldn't heading out the door in France.

Not good enough for Leinster, but good enough for Toulose :rolleyes:
How many Heineken cups do each have ?

I have to second this.

I remember telling trevor after a match in Donnybrook a few years ago that I thought it was a disgrace what had happened to him. Even though he may have thought I was just being a bit cheeky at the time. But he was always really nice and would talk to you and sign things after a match, unlike two particular Leinster/Ireland players.

The incident with kefu did not go down so well with the IRFU, they tried to blame him for it. Even though its clear to see that trevor was held by two other players while kefu punched him.

Like mayo related to, it was his hot headiness/aggression that was his downfall. I see it as passion more than anything else, which has eluded every Irish player in this world cup so far, bar Flannery. I suspect Murphy to join him on that list come sunday.

madds

Ulstermell0 wrote:

exactly. 'i should have had at least 20 more caps?' get over yerself man!

sounds to me like no one liked him - and if thats the case then i can see why he wasn't picked. not good for team chemistry.

those frogs can play with anyone!

Brennan has kept quiet enough over the years about the IRFU/EOS snub. This book is his chance to put his view out there as to why he thinks he was dropped. 20 caps is not a lot when you think about the number of matches that are played these days what with the 6N, the Autumn internationals, and tours to here, there, and everywhere.

I heard the incident with Kefu started as Brennan hit a ruck late a couple of minutes earlier up the other end of the pitch. As play developed, the Aussies tracked him and 2 of them pinned his arms while Kefu laid into him. None of the Irish team went to his aid. Old news. I'm sure Trevor has gotten over it. Will be interesting to read his version of events.

No, he was never "really that great", but was a whole lot better in terms of work rate, commitment, and passion than a lot of other guys who were picked ahead of him.

Whatever about his actions off the pitch, the "thug" accusation for his on the pitch play is uncalled for. Unless of course you can back that up with some concrete examples vAGGABOND? What he gave out, he got back.

In 2001, his Irish contract was not renewed. Matt Williams was using him as an impact sub playing him for the last 10/15 minutes of matches on a Friday night, and on Saturdays he was lining out with Barnhall in AIL Div 2. Most people would have thought the writing was on the wall and looked elsewhere for another means of income.

In the early Summer of 2002, Orrell offered him a contract in Nat Div 1 in England, but with contracts ready to be signed, Toulouse jumped in at the last minute to grab his signature, and we all know the rest.

Whatever opinion you have formed about the man through whatever sources (internet msg boards etc.), you can't but be impressed by his desire to succeed.

Snickers Man

jmayo wrote:

If he was such a thug as mentioned by other poster why then would one of the best teams in Europe (not counting one Leinster win against them as measure of them) have him in their squad ?

That's a bit like those charmingly naive statements you see in some comedies "He can't be gay. He's married"

Most French teams like to have a psycho or two in their line ups.

Stev_o

Snickers Man wrote:

That's a bit like those charmingly naive statements you see in some comedies "He can't be gay. He's married"

Most French teams like to have a psycho or two in their line ups.

So are you suggesting that he went into matches trying to do as much illegal damage to other teams that he could? Or that he was well know for being a fired up passionate individual?

He captained Mary's to win the AIL title and was steadily ignored by the IRFU which at time was madness

Trojan

I can't believe England didn't cop the calls, what a mistake.

nacho libre

Catcher86 wrote:

I have to second this.


The incident with kefu did not go down so well with the IRFU, they tried to blame him for it. Even though its clear to see that trevor was held by two other players while kefu punched him.

.

the commentary from the RTE guys on that particular incident was ridiculous. Hamilton and Ward made out Kefu taught him a lesson for throwing his weight round.
It's easy to get the better of someome when two guys are holding you while the third punches you. It was fairly apparent from this incident Ward didn't like him.

madds

nacho libre wrote:

the commentary from the RTE guys on that particular incident was ridiculous. Hamilton and Ward made out Kefu taught him a lesson for throwing his weight round.
It's easy to get the better of someome when two guys are holding you while the third punches you. It was fairly apparent from this incident Ward didn't like him.

In fairness, Ward used to praise Brennan to the high heavens in his column in the Indo at the time when reporting on St. Mary's/Leinster matches- hardest hitting tackler, deserves to be starting on the national side, etc..

I would love to see that Kefu incident again (and to hear the commentary).

jmayo

Snickers Man wrote:

That's a bit like those charmingly naive statements you see in some comedies "He can't be gay. He's married"

Most French teams like to have a psycho or two in their line ups.

Why do some Leinster fans, for want of another term, hate his guts ?
I have found most of the negative comments here and elsewhere about Brennan come from Leinster fans, indeed Mary's fans.

I will readily admit he was not the best ever forward player to come out of Ireland and he couldlose the cool sometimes, but jeeze he was a hell of a lot better than some of the eejits that got picked for Ireland squads ahead of him.
Also he was playing for Guy Noves in Toulose every week but could not even get in the Irish squad?

Tim Robbins

jmayo wrote:

Why do some Leinster fans, for want of another term, hate his guts ?
I have found most of the negative comments here and elsewhere about Brennan come from Leinster fans, indeed Mary's fans.

I will readily admit he was not the best ever forward player to come out of Ireland and he couldlose the cool sometimes, but jeeze he was a hell of a lot better than some of the eejits that got picked for Ireland squads ahead of him.
Also he was playing for Guy Noves in Toulose every week but could not even get in the Irish squad?

What a load of tosh.
I have been at Leinster matches where fans sing: "there's only one Trevor Brennan" when he has been 3 - 4 years at Toulouse. If you go into Kiely's the biggest D4 Rugger Pu, there's drinks named after him and his picture is up on the bar.
He's a legend in Leinster especially to anybody who didn't come through the schools system of which there are quite a lot.
In my own experience it's Munster fans who slag him off.

tHE vAGGABOND

I only saw him playing for Marys once or twice. But my memory of Brennan is watching him play for leinster, and watching him play well now and again, but him being the lad who would loose his cool and give away stupid penalties [see the Irish pack last week for reference ]. I dont hate him at all, I just think he seems to have a big opinion of himself and he fell a gigantic amount in my opinion when he hit that fan - regardless of what the fan said or did..

For the sake of keeping this on rugby then, who was he better then - who got picked ahead of him?

But, deadly seriously, we have been blessed with a series of good 2nd rows and good back row players for quite a while. They are the only two positions we have genuine strength in debth imho..

zAbbo

But you've got to admit, the book will be interesting.

He's nothing to lose, and even from his Diary piece, it was always interesting 'behind the scenes' stuff. Not Dickens by a long shot, but interesting nonetheless.

When's it out ?

Danie Gerber

Is it just me or has anybody else found him bitterly irritating on the RTE panel?

madds

IMO, Jeremy Davidson (when he was over the hill in 2002), Tony McWhirter, Gary Longwell, and Eric Miller to name a few. There were occasions that TB was playing better rugby at a higher standard than these guys were, and the aforementioned were named in Senior or A squads ahead of him.

dub_skav

People are calling for Quinlan to be on the bench now because he can change a game and Best to start because of his aggression.
Trevor was always that - another option. Accordinlgy he should have received many more caps at least off the bench as a different option to say Eric Miller, or when Malcolm O'Kelly was becoming stagnant (before O'Callaghan put his hand up).

I believe he wasn't liked in the Leinster (see also Decaln O'Brien for Leinster case) and Ireland camps because they like rounded footballers with all the skills, but not necessarily aggression.

If he was born in Munster he'd probably be hailed as an absolute legend.

jmayo

Tim Robbins wrote:

What a load of tosh.
I have been at Leinster matches where fans sing: "there's only one Trevor Brennan" when he has been 3 - 4 years at Toulouse. If you go into Kiely's the biggest D4 Rugger Pu, there's drinks named after him and his picture is up on the bar.
He's a legend in Leinster especially to anybody who didn't come through the schools system of which there are quite a lot.
In my own experience it's Munster fans who slag him off.

I think you hit something on the head there about old school system.
I never said all Leinster fans had a thing about him, but from a couple of posts here (for instance immediately stating he was a thug etc) and knowing a couple of long time Mary's / Leinster fans, it is evident there are some that have very low opinion of him and I just wondered why?

Didn't know RTE still did rugby ;-) I thought he was part of TV3 great coverage of the WC, which only covers Ireland games, that happen to be some of the worse examples of rugby so far at the tournament.

As an aside speaking of books, does anybody know if the Tana Umaga book currently being discussed is the one that was out 8/9 months ago in NZ?

smashey

Danie Gerber wrote:

Is it just me or has anybody else found him bitterly irritating on the RTE panel?

He's not bad on TV3 though.

tHE vAGGABOND

Point taken with Tony McWhirter. But Gary Longwell, if I remember correctly, to be fair, was playing stunning rugby at the time for Ulster, and over his 20+ caps he hardly let ireland down? Im sure it was a coin toss between himself and Brennan at times, which is why each of them played a couple of games in and out over 3 or 4 years!

Davidson and Miller were both savage players in their day, and great irish players. Both were *amazing* on the SA Lions Tour in 97..

I dont accept that Brennan was ever better than Miller. He was a great player, and later in his career was a very good impact player. He was fierce in the loose, and a great flanker. Brennan is a 2nd row, who can also play 6 or 7, he is not as good at 6 or 7 as a specialist [just like Millar is not as good a second row as a specialst 2nd row...]

Im not quite so sure about Davidson. Remember he was amazing on the 97 Lions Tour and also went on the 2001 tour [no lions tests then, as Grewcock and Johnson were in place]. So if he was good enough for the Lions in 2001, in the 2002 Championship he would have been a Lions tourist, and would never have been dropped [And when he was eventually, it was when we called up the entire munster pack - a trait we keep to now!]

madds

tHE vAGGABOND wrote:

Point taken with Tony McWhirter. But Gary Longwell, if I remember correctly, to be fair, was playing stunning rugby at the time for Ulster, and over his 20+ caps he hardly let ireland down? Im sure it was a coin toss between himself and Brennan at times, which is why each of them played a couple of games in and out over 3 or 4 years!

Look, I'm not saying that Longwell didn't deserve to be picked. He was a decent player, and gave his all for Ireland. My opinion is that he wasn't a better player than TB 100% of the time.

tHE vAGGABOND wrote:

Davidson and Miller were both savage players in their day, and great irish players. Both were *amazing* on the SA Lions Tour in 97..

Yes, they were. But Davidson was a shadow of himself come 2002. Again, for certain 6N matches etc., I don't believe Miller was what was required, and IMO TB would have been a better option.

tHE vAGGABOND wrote:

I dont accept that Brennan was ever better than Miller. He was a great player, and later in his career was a very good impact player. He was fierce in the loose, and a great flanker. Brennan is a 2nd row, who can also play 6 or 7, he is not as good at 6 or 7 as a specialist [just like Millar is not as good a second row as a specialst 2nd row...]

Fair enough, but at certain stages over a 3 to 4 period (2001 thru 2005), against certain opposition, and also taking the balance of the backrow into consideration, my opinion is that TB was a better option. Also, Brennan would never have been considered a 7. He was an out and out 6, who later in his career found he could also play in the 2nd row.

tHE vAGGABOND wrote:

Im not quite so sure about Davidson. Remember he was amazing on the 97 Lions Tour and also went on the 2001 tour [no lions tests then, as Grewcock and Johnson were in place]. So if he was good enough for the Lions in 2001, in the 2002 Championship he would have been a Lions tourist, and would never have been dropped [And when he was eventually, it was when we called up the entire munster pack - a trait we keep to now!]

Yes, he was excellent in '97. But by 2002, Davdison was a spent force at this time, which was a great pity. The injuries had caught up with him.

I guess we'll just have to read the book to get TB's take on things, won't we?

Catcher86

tHE vAGGABOND wrote:

Point taken with Tony McWhirter. But Gary Longwell, if I remember correctly, to be fair, was playing stunning rugby at the time for Ulster, and over his 20+ caps he hardly let ireland down? Im sure it was a coin toss between himself and Brennan at times, which is why each of them played a couple of games in and out over 3 or 4 years!

Davidson and Miller were both savage players in their day, and great irish players. Both were *amazing* on the SA Lions Tour in 97..

I dont accept that Brennan was ever better than Miller. He was a great player, and later in his career was a very good impact player. He was fierce in the loose, and a great flanker. Brennan is a 2nd row, who can also play 6 or 7, he is not as good at 6 or 7 as a specialist [just like Millar is not as good a second row as a specialst 2nd row...]

Im not quite so sure about Davidson. Remember he was amazing on the 97 Lions Tour and also went on the 2001 tour [no lions tests then, as Grewcock and Johnson were in place]. So if he was good enough for the Lions in 2001, in the 2002 Championship he would have been a Lions tourist, and would never have been dropped [And when he was eventually, it was when we called up the entire munster pack - a trait we keep to now!]

Yes Davidson and Miller were both amazing on the 97 tour. This cant be denied. However by 02/03 Davidson had a lot of miles on the clock and Miller was not the same player after coming back from a string of career threatening injuries.

Luckycharm

Saw him play loads of times for Marys/Leinster and even played with him a couple of times when he was coming back from Marys. You would never meet a nicer guy off the pitch.
He had a great attitude always gave his all, made big hits but was always let down by hands, he would drop alot of ball and his passing was about as good POC (yep that bad)

rickybutcher

Maybe if Trevor Brennan wasn't a busdriver's son from Leixlip he might have been treated with a bit more respect by the union.

As for these "incidents", he got himself worked up before playing rugby, that's why he was as good as he was and that's why he played for Toulouse.

EdgarAllenPoo

I'm not quite sure how to read that, are you complaining that he was a busdriver's son and got to play at top level or saying that the union saw him as lower class and didn't give him enough of a chance because of it.

tHE vAGGABOND

pretty sure its the 2nd one

I think its total and complete rubbish to be honest. Plenty of irish players past and present have not come thru the schools system, and get on just fine..

Alan Quinlan came from a tiny club in tipperary town, and went to shannon and while he only has 25 odd caps, he would have **** loads more if he were not dead unlucky with injurys over the last 4 years since he scored that try against the argies in the last world cup..

The Bull did not take the game up till he was 20 or something ffs

Players from the schools system have a gigantic advantage as they are treated like professionals from JCT to SCT - while that is good and bad in lots of ways - its good for their rugby..

siochain

jmayo wrote:

Why shouldn't he ?

If he was such a thug as mentioned by other poster why then would one of the best teams in Europe (not counting one Leinster win against them as measure of them) have him in their squad ?
Maybe if the current Irish team showed half his agression we wouldn't heading out the door in France.

Exactly, good hard player, respect !

siochain

tHE vAGGABOND wrote:

Alan Quinlan came from a tiny club in tipperary town, and went to shannon and while he only has 25 odd caps, he would have **** loads more if he were not dead unlucky with injurys over the last 4 years since he scored that try against the argies in the last world cup..

..

Yeah and he should be picking up a cap this weekend ! :mad:

agentgreen

madds wrote:

I would love to see that Kefu incident again (and to hear the commentary).

Anyone have a link to the video????

madds

Finished the book last night. Thought it was a good read, especially the period when he joined Toulouse and how Guy Noves got that team ticking. Each chapter closed with a piece from a former team mate, coach, or member of his family. Was surprised how pally he is with some of the Munster boys, especially Claw.

Also disappointed at how many errors were present in the text, there were at least a dozen that I noticed. The proof reader (or whatever they are called) should be sacked.

Snickers Man

jmayo wrote:

Why do some Leinster fans, for want of another term, hate his guts ?
I have found most of the negative comments here and elsewhere about Brennan come from Leinster fans, indeed Mary's fans.

I don't hate his guts. I always admired his courage and passion, in fact. He was (is) one of those guys who just doesn't seem to fear getting hurt and put his body where, in George Hook's memorable phrase "a blacksmith wouldn't put his anvil".

I thought he should have been a the very least in the Irish squad over the past few years. They could have done with the gee up he would have provided.

But there's no excuse for jumping into the crowd and punching out a supporter. No matter what he said.