National Anthem at rugby matches

Snickers Man

There has been some debate on the national air waves about the fact that Amhran na bhFiann is not played before Ireland's matches at the World Cup. Some people are mystified as to why this is so.

I suspect this is largely because the rapid growth in popularity of the game given Ireland's strong performances of late (well up until very recently anyway) has seen a surge in popularity of the game outside of its traditional supporter base. The new supporters may not know the history leading up to this point.

A brief history of pre match protocol.

When the political upheavals of 80 years ago split this island, the Irish rugby team remained as an all island representative body. For at least 60-70 years, the bulk of players from the south have been from the Catholic/Nationalist tradition, whereas the vast majority of players from the north have been from the Unionist tradition.

From about the late 1920s up until the 1950s, the deal was that Amhran na bhFiann was played before home matches in Lansdowne Road, God Save the King/Queen was played at Ravenhill and nothing was played when the team played abroad.

We stopped playing international matches at Ravenhill in the 1950s. From then until the mid 1990s, only Amhran na bhFiann was played before home matches in Dublin; the visitors' anthem was never played. When Ireland played abroad, only the home anthem was played.

With the emergence of the World Cup and neutral venues, a compromise was reached and Phil Coulter was commissioned to write a rugby anthem. He came up with Ireland's Call.

Now that is the only anthem played when Ireland play outside of the republic. At home matches both anthems are played.

The reason for the compromise is out of sensitivity for the northerners who are mainly of a unionist persuasion. Some would say (and I would be one of them) that the policy of the union to be sensitive to both sides and not to make an issue out of things of secondary importance to playing matches has helped to keep an all Ireland team alive and well and supported by both sides.

But is it time to insist that an Irish team should assert itself through the Irish anthem alone and drop all pretence at "two nations" theory?

Pick your best option from the poll and tell us why.

Marshy

Yeah I think we need to get rid of Ireland's Call and find an alternative. The trouble will be actually finding one however. I mean if we just get someone else to compose another anthem from scratch then the chances are it'll be criticised as much as IC.

I'd be happy with the Fields of Athenry or something thats been around for a while. Don't know if that'd please everyone though.

But its only fair that the players/supporters from Ulster are recognised. Anyone who says otherwise is being unreasonable.

MooseJam

get rid of Irelands call and replace with something much better

Imhof Tank

Snickers Man wrote:

But is it time to insist that an Irish team should assert itself through the Irish anthem alone and drop all pretence at "two nations" theory?

.

(Coming from the Republic), I have always felt that the manner in which the Irish rugby community persevered with an all island team through the troubles was something to be proud of.

I cannot believe that any genuine supporter North or South would advocate the removal of Ulster from the provincial scene, or the exclusion of Northern Ireland citizens from the national team.

That being so, how can we expect them to (or insist that they) accept that “an Irish team should assert itself through the anthem……..” of the Republic?


What is the "two nations" theory??

Chucky the tree

Other opition.

Suggestion: God save the Queen

siochain

Irish team = Irish Anthem.


Something to think about ...........

How many nationalities play for NZ? Do the play the NZ anthem or a common song to suit all the islanders. No !!!

Is the NZ haka a NZ Maori haka or a common one to reflect the traditional haka’s of Samoa, Fiji etc. No its not !!!


Do the Islands perform the haka with passion and respect? Yes the do.

Sangre

siochain wrote:

Irish team = Irish Anthem.


Something to think about ...........

How many nationalities play for NZ? Do the play the NZ anthem or a common song to suit all the islanders. No !!!

Is the NZ haka a NZ Maori haka or a common one to reflect the traditional haka’s of Samoa, Fiji etc. No its not !!!


Do the Islands perform the haka with passion and respect? Yes the do.

Not a valid comparison. The NZ rugby team doesn't claim to represent any other nation, our team specifically represents two countries as one island.

Hagar

The way they are playing now it should be "We hate to see you go, what the hell are you waiting for? We hate to see you go".

On a more serious note, if you are going to represent Ireland, sing our Anthem, if you do want to, don't pretend to represent our nation. Set up a N.Ireland team and away you go. Best of luck to you. There's plenty of Munster men dying for a place on the Irish team.

Sangre

And we have more of a right to be 'Ireland' than N.Ireland because....?

siochain

Hagar wrote:

if you are going to represent Ireland, sing our Anthem, if you do want to, don't pretend to represent our nation. Set up a N.Ireland team and away you go.

Exactly, no one is forcing them to play for Ireland, if they want to hear God Save their Queen’ play for England, simple as.

If it’s that big an issue don’t play.

Snickers Man

siochain wrote:

Exactly, no one is forcing them to play for Ireland, if they want to hear God Save their Queen’ play for England, simple as.

If it’s that big an issue don’t play.

Ah yes. The old wife beater's argument. "If you don't like it, bitch, there's the door."

Personally I think the cross border cross community Irish rugby team is something too precious to be let go just for the sake of another reason to sing Aamhran na bhfiann.

dantes74

ireland's call should be dropped simple as that and amhran na bfhian should be the sole anthem for the irish rugby team. when we play at home we play both anthems which is a bit sad and tideous, and neither of them is god save the queen
would be interested to know what the situation with south africa is they're historical backround is as troubled as our own
and while we're on about the national anthem thing have ye noticed that we don't even have a national flag flying we have a 4 provinces flag.... what a joke

AlphaMale 3OO

Hagar wrote:

The way they are playing now it should be "We hate to see you go, what the hell are you waiting for? We hate to see you go".

On a more serious note, if you are going to represent Ireland, sing our Anthem, if you do want to, don't pretend to represent our nation. Set up a N.Ireland team and away you go. Best of luck to you. There's plenty of Munster men dying for a place on the Irish team.

I agree 100% with this.

Marshy

siochain wrote:

Exactly, no one is forcing them to play for Ireland, if they want to hear God Save their Queen’ play for England, simple as.

If it’s that big an issue don’t play.

But do you not understand that its a team that represents the island of Ireland. Players from the north have as much right as anyone else to play on the team.

And how would they play for England, they're not from there. There's no GB team to play for. Gee, the level of ignorance in this forum at the moment is amazing.

dantes74

nothing against ulster players representing ireland the more the merrier in fact it goes a long way towards healing old wounds especially when you see some one like ian paisley on tv3 before the match wishing the team well
but how many ulster players are on the team on merit and not just there because you have to have at least one ulster player on the team
is best a better player than flannery??? i think not
or trimble better than hickey/murphy

remus808

I'm disgusting by all the people dismissing our NI friends. That is completely small-minded.

Your saying talented players (N.Best and Trimble should be integral parts of the new starting XV in the next year or two for example) should be excluded from the squad and left to field a Northern Ireland team just so a few traditionalists can sing Amhran Na Bhfian? No thanks

Amran Na Bhfian is not an acceptable anthem for an all-irish team. And as pointed out above, the NZ comparison is not a valid one, as NZ represent NZ and nobody else. But our rugby team is not a Republic Of Ireland team and I see no reason why it should be either. These NI players are not claiming Republic heritage, they are a part of the team just as rightly so as any other player. Note that many other all-irish representing teams use Ireland's Call as an anthem

Yes I accept it's cheesy and I personally dislike it, but any replacment has to be equally fair to Ulster. And you can't fly an ROI flag because it's not an ROI team!!! This ignorance is really getting to me.

"if you are going to represent Ireland, sing our Anthem, if you do want to, don't pretend to represent our nation. Set up a N.Ireland team and away you go."

It is not our nation they are representing! There is no such thing as a Republic Of Ireland rugby team! There is no reason for the setting up of a N.I. team. I agree with the viewpoint that an all-ireland team is something to be treasured as a sign of progress. All this archaic republican stuff is nauseating.

Chucky the tree

dantes74 wrote:

nothing against ulster players representing ireland the more the merrier in fact it goes a long way towards healing old wounds especially when you see some one like ian paisley on tv3 before the match wishing the team well
but how many ulster players are on the team on merit and not just there because you have to have at least one ulster player on the team
is best a better player than flannery??? i think not
or trimble better than hickey/murphy

And the one player who we depertatly need doesnt even want too play for us, tis hilarious i think.


I also find it comical that even when we sign Aran na whatever it wasnt sang with any where near as much umph as irelands call as alot of people dont actually know that words too it.

The fact it's dull as **** doesnt help either.

siochain

Marshy wrote:

Gee, the level of ignorance in this forum at the moment is amazing.

Obviously its hard for us all to keep up with this standard of such inspiring posts :rolleyes:

This is not a political forum so I’m not going to drag this tread in that direction. Perhaps you should think about keeping your comments about other posters out of this tread also.

Marshy

karmabass wrote:

I'm disgusting by all the people dismissing our NI friends. That is completely small-minded.

Your saying talented players (N.Best and Trimble should be integral parts of the new starting XV in the next year or two for example) should be excluded from the squad and left to field a Northern Ireland team just so a few traditionalists can sing Amhran Na Bhfian? No thanks

Amran Na Bhfian is not an acceptable anthem for an all-irish team. And as pointed out above, the NZ comparison is not a valid one, as NZ represent NZ and nobody else. But our rugby team is not a Republic Of Ireland team and I see no reason why it should be either. These NI players are not claiming Republic heritage, they are a part of the team just as rightly so as any other player. Note that many other all-irish representing teams use Ireland's Call as an anthem

Yes I accept it's cheesy and I personally dislike it, but any replacment has to be equally fair to Ulster. And you can't fly an ROI flag because it's not an ROI team!!! This ignorance is really getting to me.



It is not our nation they are representing! There is no such thing as a Republic Of Ireland rugby team! There is no reason for the setting up of a N.I. team. I agree with the viewpoint that an all-ireland team is something to be treasured as a sign of progress. All this archaic republican stuff is nauseating.

Amen to that, at least somebody's talking sense here.

SpAcEd OuT

Just thought I'd point out that a lot of opposing fans love Ireland's call and rate it up there with Flower of Scotland as one of the top anthems.

Ask any fans from outside Ireland and they will tell you they think Ireland's call is brilliant

Imhof Tank

I would venture that the international rugby team is currently the only political or sporting entity which every, single, solitary person on this island can support. The reason has been the traditional respect shown by each side for the other.

Some posters here claiming ownership of this team want to forget all this, just put the other crowd out.

Sad.

siochain

Marshy, just noticed your location: The Pale.

RuggieBear

i've said it before and i'll say it again. if you want to talk about the anthem "issue" do it away from this rugby forum.

It always ends up a pile of sectarian nonsense and personal abuse. always.