To drop ROG for Wallace for Arg??

Diamondmaker

Given ROGs terrible form this RWC and given we need to play high risk attacking rugby in persuit of 4 tries in a Leinster with Contepomi at 10 scenario - run evrything.

Should Paddy Wallace start.

PW I have always argued, has good distribution, is a good centre and can kick his place kicks. In this game we need quick ball an OH and Scrum half ( Redden if in, now offers this ) that can break.

Hes not an excellent OH but given horses for courses I think we need the extar attacking impetus that he may bring, ROG did not make one single line break this tournament and Im sure Darcy anomimity has something do with his no 10 also, when has the guy been so anon before??

Given we are out as it stands and with nothing to lose we must play all out high risk and this may involve PW starting or playing the 2nd half.

tHE vAGGABOND

No!

He does not play 10 for Ulster! He is not good enough to take the 10 shirt off Humpty.

Redden is totally a different case, he has been amazing for Wasps for 2 years, and was brilliant in their run to the European cup last season. I hope he makes the 9 shirt his own tbh, at worst there will be real competition there.

PhoenixRising

I agree. Wallace should start the next game at OH.

Did anyone hear "Franno" on Setanta last night saying that if he was picking the team for Sunday he'd play Reddan at SH and O'Driscoll at OH, with D'Arcy and Horgan in the centre, Hickie and Carney on the wings, and Dempsey at FB. It's sounds mad I know, but feck it, what harm is it going to do now by trying something a bit different.

Punchbowl

O'Gara will not play and Wallace, whatever about his limitations, can at least kick a ball.. He also offers an extra attacking edge.

It has to be all or nothing on Sunday.. I'm beginning to fear an historic perfromance by Ireland is on the cards making us wonder what might of been

Team announced tomorrow?

Diamondmaker

tHE vAGGABOND wrote:

No!

He does not play 10 for Ulster! He is not good enough to take the 10 shirt off Humpty.

Redden is totally a different case, he has been amazing for Wasps for 2 years, and was brilliant in their run to the European cup last season. I hope he makes the 9 shirt his own tbh, at worst there will be real competition there.

Its not about being a good 10 its about being better at getting the backs moving and offering an outlet in himslef to break that Rog cant offer. Its about offering another centre, conversions wont matter on Sunday in the grand scheme, penalties neither every ball will have to be kicked up the line or ran !!

He cant defend any worse than ROG, can kick place kicks as well as ROG in current form and frankly is not a psychological liability that Rog currently is!

He has also got to be able to kick ball into the great wide universe that is anywhere but the pitch - touch- better than ROG of late.

LuckyLloyd

Some of the posts on this forum over the past two weeks are beyond ridiculous.

monosharp

LuckyLloyd wrote:

Some of the posts on this forum over the past two weeks are beyond ridiculous.

Because most of the "rugby" from the Irish team has being beyond ridiculous the past 2 weeks ?

marco_polo

While Wallace is a talented footballer with good skill level, I am not even sure that he is up to the standards required at HEC level in the out half position to be perfectly honest. Still it is an indicator of the poor form that ROG is in that people are even considering such a move. Unfortunately we would not beat any top ten team with PW at outhalf.

Our only chance of getting out of this pool is with a fit and in form ROG at number 10 on Sunday. Hopefully now that a sizeable number of people have allready lost interest in the RWC these stupid rumours will cease being spread and he can hopefully get his head right this week and somehow rediscover something close his old form again.

In any case unless we get a MASSIVE performance from the pack the likes of which we haven't seen since England in Croke park, the form of ROG, D'Arcy, BOD etc will be absolutely irrelevant to the outcome.

uRbaN

no, I'd say its because most of those posts are coming from people who haven't the slightest inkling what they are talking about, and are just regurgitating what they have read / heard

redmca

I agree with most that PW should replace ROG.

Our chances are between slim and nil, and are exactly NIL if the French only beat Georgia WITHOUT a bonus point, a fact we will know before kick-off.

That said, for our slim chance we have to set off like Wales in their grand slam of a couple of years ago, run everything, go for broke.

Therefore along with PW, Hickie & Murphy should replace Trimble & Horgan neither of whom are currently at the races.
Dempsey is playing is so reliably, he should be picked even if he is conservative, there will be enough game breakers playing in front of him.

Up front, MOK definitely, with DOC coming on after 50-55mins. Wallace & Leamy have not delivered. Leamy is a mystery to me, always expected him to impose himself on oppositions .......... Quinlan is a must, and Best has aggression, something sadly lacking in most of our players bar BOD and Flannery (maybe)

Luckycharm

I agree Wallace for ROG we have nothing to lose, what rog had over Wallace was better kicking game but he does not have that on current form. Wallace is far better ball in hand, his kicking is OK but we need something different.

ROG has been shocking this RWC and needs a good kick up the H O L E as do half the IRish team. BOD is no number 10 and we know Horgan is not a centre- Franno is a twat anyway!!

zAbbo

Wallace for D'Arcy would be a more realistic change.

This RWC campaign has been awful in terms of using the squad.

Changes I'd make would be

MOK for DOC
Quinlan at 6, Best at 7, Ferris at 8
Keep Reddan at 9
Hickie back at 11
Wallace or Duffy at 12
Carney at 14
GM at 15

Thats never going to happen, and It would have been nice to know if those options were viable before such an important game.

chris85

Lads

Wallace should be put in instead of OGara. He cant be allowed to think he can still get his game when he plays bad.

Reddan stays at number 9, Front five same as last match. Hickie back on for Trimble on the wing and maybe move Trimble to 12. Murphy back in at 15 as he should have been.

We have nothing to lose so lets see if we can go out with a fight.

Let these players who have not been starting regularly like Wallace and Reddan and Trimble and Murphy (not in the RWC anyway) fight for there place and I will would say the teasm will be on fire.

These players have been training with the rest of the team but have had little game time so they will fight for their place on the pitch.

tHE vAGGABOND

You have a perfect right to your opinion Zabbo - but for the record I think your high

People forget that Big Mal and Quinlan are 33, and have not really done it at Heineken Cup or International level for a short while [Very much IMHO]. If you want big Mal back in the team, go and watch any of his last 3 or 4 international games [a great example would be the scotland warmup!]. He looked good for the 5 minutes he was on the field on Friday, but any more than that and he looks knackered! Its a pity we cant bring him on for Lineouts, like American football

I agree both Darcy and Bo'D are not playing well, but they are untouchable as our entire gameplan is about them making line breaks, and getting over the gain line themselves or their off loads to others coming at pace. We dont have anyone in the squad who can come in and make breaks like that. Otherwise we may as well put Geordan Murphy or Quinlan in there, for the sake of it

I agree with giving Carney a lash for the sake of something different, but I would put him on the bench, and replace Disco Dennis at about 55/60 mins, and therefore tell Dennis to kill himself running for all that time.

I posted elsewhere about Girvan being our best back atm - and without him we would have been in trouble in all of our games. I think the call's for Murphy is a case of the grass being greener. He should indeed be on the bench, but in the XV.

Duffy is not international standard IMHO. He is only 25, and may develop we will need him moving forward so *fingers crossed*, but he could not cut it in England has limped back home to Connaught. If he was any good Ulster/Leinster or Munster would have taken him [sorry Connaught fans, just the way it is]. A win big or go home game in the world cup is not the place to blood him, the november internationals are!

Same for Wallace, IMHO if he was good enough at out half he would have the 10 shirt at Ulster. He is not good enough, so he plays 12. Its just that we have ZERO other options at 10 that he is there. If we have ANYONE else they would be there instead of him IMHO..

marco_polo

In a similar vein to this thread I fail to see what D'Arcy has done to merit talk of dropping him from the team. Just for starters his defense has been rock solid so far in this RWC.

In terms of attacking play, sure he has not been playing as well as he can, but any time himself or BOD have recieved the ball in recent matches it is slow and static and generally we are on the back foot.

He has not lost the ability to make those line breaks but without the pack playing well by generating momentum, building phases and sucking in cover defenders, there is simply no space for the backs, especially the centers, to operate in.

Marshy

Paddy Wallace is a definite no IMO. Although ROG has had 3 desperate games, you have to look at the alternative and its clear that he's unproven to say the least. It just epitomises the lack of depth in the squad that we haven't got a real alternative at 10.

The players I'd bring in would be Quinlan, O'Kelly(even though he's over the hill), Murphy and N Best. Apart from that they're aren't many changes we can make.

zAbbo

tHE vAGGABOND wrote:

You have a perfect right to your opinion Zabbo - but for the record I think your high

We have a team (not a squad) of XV players, and when that team don't have the answers, we're going to have to try some of the other XV lads who are out on holidays

JC 2K3

redmca wrote:

That said, for our slim chance we have to set off like Wales in their grand slam of a couple of years ago, run everything, go for broke.

Were you even watching the Namibia or Georgia games? When this team, on their current form "runs everything", that is what happens.

Sure when we tried to run at France in the last game, we fumbled it, they counter attacked and almost scored in the corner(they were just denied by the TMO for being in touch).

LuckyLloyd

tHE vAGGABOND wrote:

You have a perfect right to your opinion Zabbo - but for the record I think your high

People forget that Big Mal and Quinlan are 33, and have not really done it at Heineken Cup or International level for a short while [Very much IMHO]. If you want big Mal back in the team, go and watch any of his last 3 or 4 international games [a great example would be the scotland warmup!]. He looked good for the 5 minutes he was on the field on Friday, but any more than that and he looks knackered! Its a pity we cant bring him on for Lineouts, like American football

I agree both Darcy and Bo'D are not playing well, but they are untouchable as our entire gameplan is about them making line breaks, and getting over the gain line themselves or their off loads to others coming at pace. We dont have anyone in the squad who can come in and make breaks like that. Otherwise we may as well put Geordan Murphy or Quinlan in there, for the sake of it

I agree with giving Carney a lash for the sake of something different, but I would put him on the bench, and replace Disco Dennis at about 55/60 mins, and therefore tell Dennis to kill himself running for all that time.

I posted elsewhere about Girvan being our best back atm - and without him we would have been in trouble in all of our games. I think the call's for Murphy is a case of the grass being greener. He should indeed be on the bench, but in the XV.

Duffy is not international standard IMHO. He is only 25, and may develop we will need him moving forward so *fingers crossed*, but he could not cut it in England has limped back home to Connaught. If he was any good Ulster/Leinster or Munster would have taken him [sorry Connaught fans, just the way it is]. A win big or go home game in the world cup is not the place to blood him, the november internationals are!

Same for Wallace, IMHO if he was good enough at out half he would have the 10 shirt at Ulster. He is not good enough, so he plays 12. Its just that we have ZERO other options at 10 that he is there. If we have ANYONE else they would be there instead of him IMHO..

Good post IMO.

Look all, it is completely inarguable that ROG performances have not been up to scratch so far. But, you cannot replace him with a player with precious little test match experience - while having spent most of his club career NOT playing at out - half. Remember that O' Gara gave one of the best performances of his career circa one year ago when he marshalled a battered and retreating Munster side to an unlikely victory at Welford road - after his character and abillity was scrutinised and put on the line via the media storm that preceeded the game. So he has shown that he can pull big games out when under pressure. AND, he was the man at the helm in the two Munster miracle matches - which exist as the only templates available to Irish rugby for the task that is ahead on Sunday.

All of these calls for radical changes are baseless, because those outside the starting 15 are not viable options. This is the key of this campaign, O' Sullivan gambled on getting a core 15 battle hardened through repetition in the 12 months before the world cup; and crossed his fingers that they would remain healthy and in form - and give him five big consecutive performances that would lead to a semi - final. His gamble has not worked out, but everyone needs to understand that if those on the bench have no game time - they cannot be brought in.

I will agree with anyone who says that O' Sullivan's approach to the competition was flawed; and that he should have concentrated on building a squad - not just a first 15. But such assessments and recriminations will have to take place AFTER our participation in the world cup has ended. And, by extension, significant changes and experimentation will have to take place in the next six - nations which will need to be viewed in the light of experimentation and transition.

But now, we need to go with who has been playing - and those who have been there and done it over the past 24 months. That means playing O' Gara, playing Dempsey, playing Easterby (who was a ****ing collosus on Friday night), playing the centre pairing. It is too easy to look for changes for the sake of it when things are going bad. But they need to have a logical and reasonable basis. Starting the likes of Quinlan, O' Kelly, Carney and Wallace next weekend would be ridiculous.


And I have to say that I seriously question how much rugby many of those hanging out on this forum over the past three weeks have watched during the past three years.

Marshy

JC 2K3 wrote:

Were you even watching the Namibia or Georgia games? When this team, on their current form "runs everything", that is what happens.

But how else do you suggest we try and get the 4 trys required against the argies. If we just play a tight limited kicking game we'll be lucky to register a single try. We've no option but to play a reasonably expansive game. Thats not to say we have to be reckless like we were for much of the first 2 games. The key is for the forwards to create better ball for the backs and give them a platform to get at Argentina.

bugler

People forget that Big Mal and Quinlan are 33, and have not really done it at Heineken Cup or International level for a short while [Very much IMHO].

Agree on MOK. But one thing he'll probably be able to do until he keels over is win line-out ball, so not bringing him on earlier in the French game was a mistake.

I can't agree on Quinlan though. I believe he picked up 2 MOM awards in the HC group games, only to fall victim to his own temper (again) in getting banned for that stamp in the Cardiff game. He was also a standout in the Munster ML team when they were alternately píss-poor and very good. He was one of the few players who did well in Argentina. He's arguably a better ball player than any of our starting back rows, loses nothing in the lineout compared to Easterby, and is easily as aggressive as any of them. Ignoring him completely in this WC was a waste.

is_that_so

uRbaN wrote:

no, I'd say its because most of those posts are coming from people who haven't the slightest inkling what they are talking about, and are just regurgitating what they have read / heard

So what's your take? Do you "know what you are talking about"?

We're all thinking out loud here and even those of who "haven't the slightest inkling" can still recognise a badly misfiring team when we see one.

Personally I suspect the RWC is already over for many of these players. Whatever about some of their hearts, their heads certainly aren't in it. I'd be mightily surprised if we get the performance we have come to expect out of the likes of POC and BOD. So let loose the rest of them. When the post-mortem comes, as it will, we will need a new plan and some new players.

Blood them all and fill the bench with guys he hasn't played.
ROG is not playing well at all and imo has become a liability to himself and the team. Paddy Wallace is his backup, let him play. A rest may do O'Gara good and Munster might be well minded to give it to him. So Carney for Trimble with Hickie as backup, Murphy for Horgan (too soon and he's trying way too hard). In the pack MOK for DOC, Neil Best for Gleeson and keep Flannery.

Diamondmaker

Im pretty confident that ROG is injured, was obvious from the off on Fri night he was carrying one leg.

We'll have to wait and see, but persisting 4 games in a row with a guy WAY off his game is not good selection I feel.

Anything PW has to offer is NOT as an OH but as a centre option with better breaking and distribution than a hobbling, weight of the world, on verge of public marriage break up, press dissection of personal life nervous breakdown....!!

Its mad to play someone in this mental state!

LuckyLloyd

is_that_so wrote:

Personally I suspect the RWC is already over for many of these players. Whatever about some of their hearts, their heads certainly aren't in it. I'd be mightily surprised if we get the performance we have come to expect out of the likes of POC and BOD. So let loose the rest of them. When the post-mortem comes, as it will, we will need a new plan and some new players.

Blood them all and fill the bench with guys he hasn't played.ROG is not playing well at all and imo has become a liability to himself and the team. Paddy Wallace is his backup, let him play. A rest may do O'Gara good and Munster might be well minded to give it to him. So Carney for Trimble with Hickie as backup, Murphy for Horgan (too soon and he's trying way too hard). In the pack MOK for DOC, Neil Best for Gleeson and keep Flannery.

The fact remains that this world cup is not over yet. There will be a six nations within which to blood new players. This is about following through with the situation that has been created.

I think it is better for us to go with the old warhorses that are out of form - then the untried and untested. This is not a once off test match. It is not Italy at home in the six - nations. It is not the time for experimentation.

is_that_so

LuckyLloyd wrote:

The fact remains that this world cup is not over yet. There will be a six nations within which to blood new players. This is about following through with the situation that has been created.

I think it is better for us to go with the old warhorses that are out of form - then the untried and untested. This is not a once off test match. It is not Italy at home in the six - nations. It is not the time for experimentation.

A fair point but in some respects this is a one off. The chance of those out of form players suddenly finding that elusive form is remote at best so why not take that chance. There is something at stake; a potential QF place, beyond us imo, so I don't really see it as being a worse risk. We may even identify some players to get started on rebuilding.

LuckyLloyd

is_that_so wrote:

A fair point but in some respects this is a one off. The chance of those out of form players suddenly finding that elusive form is remote at best so why not take that chance. There is something at stake; a potential QF place, beyond us imo, so I don't really see it as being a worse risk. We may even identify some players to get started on rebuilding.

Look, to labour the point: we need to win, get a bonus point, stop them getting one. Remember that Munster did this in a Heineken Cup tie a few years back at Thomond vs Gloucester. O' Gara was the outhalf that day.

Wallace has never been involved in anything like that in his entire career. Therefore, I have no interest in taking a chance on him, or making any other knee - jerk selection changes. And we can delay the rebuilding by one game. There is potentially a whole four - eight years in the doldrums for rebuilding before we ever feel as good about Irish Rugby as we did at the end of the England game earlier this year. I say go with the players that made us feel that way before we consign it as a blip in sporting history.

aidan24326

uRbaN wrote:

no, I'd say its because most of those posts are coming from people who haven't the slightest inkling what they are talking about, and are just regurgitating what they have read / heard

That's right, and you being the expert that you are you will now educate us all, won't you?

Can't really agree with Wallace starting instead of O'Gara. He's just not a viable alternative, which makes you wonder why he's there at all.

In a sh1t or bust scenario some risks will be necessary though, and unfortunately EOS is the most conservative risk-free manager in the business. Maybe take a chance and throw in O'Driscoll or Murphy at 10. Sounds ridiculous?

Maybe, but it could hardly be any more ridiculous than starting a guy who is playing the worst rugby of his career and is obviously not mentally right for it.

We could have him in the 22 just in case, not that Eddie seems to care much about substitutes anyway.

LuckyLloyd

aidan24326 wrote:

Can't really agree with Wallace starting instead of O'Gara. He's just not a viable alternative, which makes you wonder why he's there at all.

Good point. But that can't be fixed now - and we can't start Wallace.

aidan24326 wrote:

In a sh1t or bust scenario some risks will be necessary though, and unfortunately EOS is the most conservative risk-free manager in the business. Maybe take a chance and throw in O'Driscoll or Murphy at 10. Sounds ridiculous?

In a sh!t or burst scenario why not hope that the guy who HAS done it before does it again?

Playing either of them at out - half would be BEYOND ridiculous. Wallace 10x a better option. And we already agreed we couldn't use him.

aidan24326 wrote:

Maybe, but it could hardly be any more ridiculous than starting a guy who is playing the worst rugby of his career and is obviously not mentally right for it.

This man is feted for his general toughness. He has responded time and time again in the past with big performances in pressure games. If Humphreys was on the bench we could give him a whirl - as Humphreys has won important games from the position before. But he isn't there.

Here's a ridiculous notion - give the man one more chance? Has he not ****ing earned it with all the effort and end product he has delivered to Irish rugby in the past?

Fickle people in this forum.

dreamerbeliever

In fairness Wallace is really just piss and vinegar. ROG has been poor but not poorer than D'Arcy or Horgan or a lot of other leading lights. I don't think major changes are going to do anything. Bringing Hickie back in for Trimble and giving Murphy and Quinlan in for Dempsey and Easterby, who were actually our two best players against France but don't exactly offer much cut and thrust. O'Kelly should be in for O'Callaghan who has been absolutely dreadful as well.

aidan24326

LuckyLloyd wrote:

Here's a ridiculous notion - give the man one more chance? Has he not ****ing earned it with all the effort and end product he has delivered to Irish rugby in the past?

Fickle people in this forum.

I don't think anyone is suggesting he doesn't deserve a chance. O'Gara is a popular player among the supporters and someone who has done the business before for both Ireland and Munster. With people saying he should be dropped it isn't a case of slating the guy it's more like feeling sympathy for a player who looks lost out there at the moment.

He will probably start against Argentina due to the lack of alternatives, but it's hard to see how he or the other misfiring Irish players are going to suddenly come up with a big performance now having been all over the place in the first 3 games. It's not impossible but in all honesty you wouldn't bet much on it.

Even if Ireland pulled off a miracle result against Argentina does anyone here think we'd get within 30 points of New Zealand right now? Because I don't. To have a chance of making an impact we had to win the group and that's very unlikely now.

Stev_o

Hmm so let me ge this straight.

The whole point of having double cover for every position in the world cup is so that if one person in that position is not preforming/injured they are replaced by the next. Everyone here will agree yes.

So why isnt Wallace given the shot at it then i mean bloody hell its not like if O Gara doesnt start he ll never play, shove him on the bench and let him take in the atmosphere and such and have a few people to talk to. If Wallace isnt doing the business you can throw O Gara back on.

I think im safe in saying that we are the ONLY country to have yet used a cover replacement dew to lack of form or whatever. I mean Eddie should have given Wallace game time just giving him a match against Italy where he's playing with a completely mixed up squad doesnt help the poor chap.

*Sigh* EOS reallly shot himself in the foot with that one.

Take for example England. Two outhalfs Wilko and Barkley who btw is really a center. England playing in the first test against France started Barkley with the full strength squad to get used to it as they knew they would have to use him at sometime so its best to get him used to his surroundings

Eddie on the other hand played Wallace with a rag tag mix and match team which included a backline that Wallace would NEVER have to go with i mean i cant understand that granted that in each warm up we struggled but never the less doesnt mean you shouldnt give people game time sure they are the warm ups not the RWC as France sadly found out.

Marshy

But the whole point that nearly everyone has made is that Paddy Wallace is not good enough. You're totally mistaken if you think he's gonna come on and just pull a rabbit out of hat. If we had an Evans or a Barnes as cover for outhalf then that'd be great but unfortunately we don't.

Stev_o

Marshy wrote:

But the whole point that nearly everyone has made is that Paddy Wallace is not good enough. You're totally mistaken if you think he's gonna come on and just pull a rabbit out of hat. If we had an Evans or a Barnes as cover for outhalf then that'd be great but unfortunately we don't.

Your also forgetting that by O Gara's performances HE isnt good enough i mean bloody hell havent seen him miss so many shots at the post for well over a year.

I mean if all goes crap for Wallace just take him off simple as that

JuliusFranco

really it's too late for major changes

it would be harsh to drop Easterby after how he played against France but it might be just give Ireland a bit of a spark to start Quinlan, bearing in mind he was the hero in the Argintina game in the last RWC. I can just imagine he's really choping at the bit to get going (i'm not picturing Alan Quinlan in stirups)

it might work sticking him in the second row. as we have to go "bananas" here i don't see the point in starting Mal only to be replaced after 60. AQ will go ape from the start and DOC on the bench will give an impact option.

ROG is still a better gamble than PW. The only thing is that ROG seems to love getting the better of Felipe at 10. (don't know why i'm assuming FC will start at 10?).

Maybe Carney as a "Reddan type" wild card to shake things up but Murphy and Hickey will need to be in the match 22 at least.

I'll be in the stands with my boots handy...just in case

Edit: For what it's worth (5/2 split on the bench cos it's gonna be physical. Lets hope ROG doesnt get injured (yes I watched the Arg tests too)

15. G Murphy
14. B Carney
13. BOD
12. G D'arcy
11. D Hickey
10. ROG
9. E Reddan

1. B Young
2. J Flannery
3. J Hayes
4. POC
5. A Quinlan
6. S Easterby
7. N Best
8. D Leamy

16. M Horan
17. S Best
18. R Best (if fit)
19. D O'Callaghan
20. D Wallace
21. I Boss
22. S Horgan

marco_polo

Marshy wrote:

But the whole point that nearly everyone has made is that Paddy Wallace is not good enough. You're totally mistaken if you think he's gonna come on and just pull a rabbit out of hat. If we had an Evans or a Barnes as cover for outhalf then that'd be great but unfortunately we don't.

Agreed, Paddy Wallace is at least a couple of full seasons for Ulster at number 10 from knowing he has the ability to make it a number 10. (And that is assuming he even wants to play there).

It is a very technical position that must be learned with a few years of experience AT CLUB LEVEL, not with a couple runouts in RWC warmup games or with a few substitute appearances in the 6Ns.

LuckyLloyd

Stev_o wrote:

Your also forgetting that by O Gara's performances HE isnt good enough i mean bloody hell havent seen him miss so many shots at the post for well over a year.

I mean if all goes crap for Wallace just take him off simple as that

Stev,

You are correct in your arguements that EOS deserves harsh critiscism for not preparing the Irish squad for this world cup in a manner that would have left viable options for every position on the bench. Clearly, the plan was contingent on ROG not dropping off in form, on ROG not getting injured. Unfortunately, those very things have happened - and the lack of real, quality gametime and preperation for Wallace has left us with no realistic change up.

But, such shortcomings will have to be examined in the course of an overall assessment of the team's planning and end performance in this world cup AFTER the competition is over.

Now, I can also appreciate being frustrated with O' Gara's performances in the previous three games. And I can understand people looking and thinking he isn't up to it.

But, he is the man with the experience. Wallace just does not have the grounding to step into such a vital match against a defence like Argentina. As much as the lack of effort put into him over thepast four years has been unfair - throwing him in at the deep end on Sunday would not be right.

Wallace has some good qualities - no doubt. But his club experience has fashioned him into more of a utillity back than anything else. As marco_polo correctly points out, playing out - half at the very highest level requires a complexity in terms of mental and technical abillity that can only be honed and refined through repeated exposure to big, pressure games. Wallace does not have that base.

It is a shame that we do not have other options. As I said earlier in the thread, if Humphreys or even the likes of Staunton were in the squad we could consider a change up. And the fact that those options are not available is something that needs to be addressed FOLLOWING the conclusion of Ireland's participation in the competition.

O' Gara is a tough competitior and has tackled adversity face on in the past. Let's hope for another **** you performance from him along the lines of Welford road last year.

terry mac

bugler wrote:

I can't agree on Quinlan though. I believe he picked up 2 MOM awards in the HC group games, only to fall victim to his own temper (again) in getting banned for that stamp in the Cardiff game. He was also a standout in the Munster ML team when they were alternately píss-poor and very good. He was one of the few players who did well in Argentina. He's arguably a better ball player than any of our starting back rows, loses nothing in the lineout compared to Easterby, and is easily as aggressive as any of them. Ignoring him completely in this WC was a waste.

Was it not a bit of a surprise that Quinlan even made the squad, so I don't think many people were expecting him to get a look in if things went to plan. No disrespect to Quinlan and O'Kelly they've served us well in the past but a lot has happened in 4 years.

Alan Quinlan has not been in the reckoning for Ireland for a long time, how come no-one was pleading for his inclusion in the intervening time. Now it seems everyone is jumping on the "O'Kelly/Quinlan to be the Knight in Shining Armour" bandwagon.

What I'm really trying to say is the fact that people are calling so vehemently for their inclusion really shows how f***in far we have fallen.

Jigsaw

The only reason that Wallace is not number 10 as I have said already is that Humphreys was kept on one more season because Paddy Wallace going to be at the world cup and Ulster's cover was Niall O'Connor but he is like 20 yrs old or something.

Paddy Wallace is a decent player and I hope to God he doesn't read Boards because people are so negatitive about him. The bloke needs to be given a chance.

Ireland are ****ed for this world cup and possibly 6 nations but the team needs to go away and rebuild. Ditch a lot of the old guard and prepare for the future.
That is how we beat the Oz and SA last autumn. They were fielding experimental sides and we won, but look at what they doing now!!

Jigsaw

I'm not saying Wallace is the perfect no 10 because he is not but he is worth a shot. He will spend most of the season in that position with Humph covering on his last legs come the winter. Humph has been great servant of Irish rugby but his days are gone.

tHE vAGGABOND

Paddy Wallace is a decent player and I hope to God he doesn't read Boards because people are so negatitive about him. The bloke needs to be given a chance

Wallace's problem is that he has missed the boat [IMHO]. He is no longer a young player with potential.

He is 28 now, and therefore will be 32 by the time of the next world cup!

If Humpty is still playing [as he has] he will be Ulster's 10 for this season, so Wallace wont get a shot at being a regular 10 until he is 29 [next season]...

We need someone at 10 in their early to mid 20's and develop them, so they are well experienced at provincial and international level for the next world cup. The theory being that they would be at or near their peak at world cup time, but have time on their side regardless..

toomevara

Wallace is a good but limited rugby player, all due respect to the man. Putting him on the field in the Parc de Prince would be suicidal, and would signal to the Argentinians that the panic in the Irish camp is total. Hopefully O'Gara will be able to get his head right having had a week to deal with the scurrilous nonsense doing the rounds.

Carney should be given a shot. I know he's not the same player who terrorised the opposition when in a Wigan and GB shirt, but he runs lines from deep very well, as you'd expect, and has a great homing instinct for the try line.