good or bad laydown

Lemegeton

here is the story. NL MTT early on, 50 odd players left. blinds are 100/200 i have around 7k, been playing well. only one other stack on the table that big.

im on the button with 10 10 os
folded around to me i make it 600 to go.
SB calls and BB folds

1400 in the pot

flop comes down Q 5 6 Rainbow

SB has seen me take down a few pots from the button so i think he has me pegged as doing a button steel, he bets 1,000
im pretty sure he does not have me on a hand so i re-raise to 3,000, expecting a fold but he pushes all in for 7K approx, has me covered anyway.
my read on the situation was that he was so playing KK, QQ or AA or has AQ, AK. i know there is only one overcard on the flop . i still have over 3,000 in chips left so im not totally pot comitted yet, if i fold i have to chips to play with. there is a lot of value there but i cant see him making the all in re-raise so early in on the tourney with a decent hand.

i muck my tens much to the surprise of everyone but he had not been a loose player so far and i believed he was ahead.

what do you think. right play or not

NOTE: after i folded he showed me an ace and claimed his other card was a 6. sounded like bull**** to me, raising all in after i re-raised him with middle pair, bollocks.

DEmeant0r

Tbh, you put in over half of you chips in the pot in this hand, if you're going to fold for another 3/7ths of you stack then it's a bad laydown, IMO.

Mellor

If you are going to make big folds like this.
Do Not Show Them.
It may seem like a good idea, but instead of the table seeing as you as a good player who can make great reads, they'll think they can push you around.

as for the hand, AA,KK,QQ,AK,AQ were not in his range I should hope.

Lemegeton

yeah thats whats nagging at me. at the time i thought i was making the right play but the more i think about it the more im not sure. think him showing just one ace annoyed me and i cant get the hand out of my head

Lemegeton

Mellor wrote:

If you are going to make big folds like this.
Do Not Show Them.
It may seem like a good idea, but instead of the table seeing as you as a good player who can make great reads, they'll think they can push you around.

as for the hand, AA,KK,QQ,AK,AQ were not in his range I should hope.

oh no i never showed my hand. he showed one ace but i never declared my hand, im not that stupid

Mellor

Lemegeton wrote:

oh no i never showed my hand. he showed one ace but i never declared my hand, im not that stupid

oh sorry I mis read your first post

dvdfan

Has he slowplayed big pairs before, cant think why hed just flat call with AK or AQ if he thinks your button raising range is a bit loose and id be very surprised to see AA-JJ slowplayed here aswell considering BB has yet to act.

Id rather call this flop and take advantage of your position and fold on unimproved turn if he bets, considering stack sizes i cant see a hand that you beat that will call that raise so your just turning your hand into a bluff and i dont think any paired hand 99 or worse will double barrell here OOP so i think this may be a better line.

Any more history between the 2 of you, how is he playing, is it possible he wasnt aware of your button stealing, have you showed down any c/r hands at the table etc????

BobSloane

Don't think i'd have raised him unless I was planning to call. You put him to an all-in or fold decision. You have position and could see what he does on the turn.
As for the fold would he not be more likely to c/raise with a hand that has you beat?

Gholimoli

Lemegeton wrote:

im pretty sure he does not have me on a hand so i re-raise to 3,000, expecting a fold but he pushes all in for 7K approx, has me covered anyway.
.

this is what is bad about your thinking.

just b/c you expect him to fold does not mean he is going to.
so what you have to think about before you raise him is "what am i going to do id he calls or shoves?

basically when you raise he will:
1.fold
2.call
3.raise

now you can assign a certain % to each one of thoes actions and decide on the best course of action which has the highest EV for you based on how likely that action is and how much you will gain/lose if that action happens.

i dont know if im explianing this well.
on this particular hand he either has AQ/AA/KK/KQ or w hand that has you beat or not.
the best course of action here is usually to keep the pot small which means you should just call him.

raising is not that good b/c he is never folding a hand that is better than yours(well that's not totally true as he may fold JJ but not that often).

you also have position on him which means he has to act before you on the turn which has huge advantages for you .

hope this helps.

Mr.Plough

in this hand id just flat call and c/fold the turn.


something i've been wondering about.



the kk with an A on the flop - checking the flop is standard.


lets say you have TT/JJ on an A high flop. Is it better to check this flop and bluffcatch or bet it for protection?

or would you check flop and balance by betting the turn for protection?

or do you just take the same line as with kk but fold to any action on a scare card?


up to now ive always taken a bluffcatching line with one overcard to a pp. is there ever any merit in betting for protection?

Lemegeton

dvdfan wrote:

Has he slowplayed big pairs before, cant think why hed just flat call with AK or AQ if he thinks your button raising range is a bit loose and id be very surprised to see AA-JJ slowplayed here aswell considering BB has yet to act.

Id rather call this flop and take advantage of your position and fold on unimproved turn if he bets, considering stack sizes i cant see a hand that you beat that will call that raise so your just turning your hand into a bluff and i dont think any paired hand 99 or worse will double barrell here OOP so i think this may be a better line.

Any more history between the 2 of you, how is he playing, is it possible he wasnt aware of your button stealing, have you showed down any c/r hands at the table etc????

no it was early on in the tourney and id never seen him before, we both took down some nice pots from other players but never had any action between us.

Lazare

Lemegeton wrote:

im on the button with 10 10 os

lol

Lemegeton

Lazare wrote:

lol

whats the joke :mad:

Lazare

Lemegeton wrote:

whats the joke :mad:

I thought it was obvious from my post.

I hate people bashing forum noobs, but you're here 9 months so you qualify for ridicule

Harden your neck.

mrflash

its a terrible fold. you are pot committed. no over card. if you think he might be weak you shove, if you think you are behind you fold and thats to his original postflop raise.

valor

dont raise the flop

connie147

If your read was that you were ahead,then stick with it. You have to go with your reads.Oh, and if he had A6, he would have shown you both cards,not just the Ace.

One thing that puzzles me about your post, you say that when you folded the 10-10,it was much to everybodys amazement, then in a later post you say that you didnt show the fold, ?

Lemegeton

connie147 wrote:

If your read was that you were ahead,then stick with it. You have to go with your reads.Oh, and if he had A6, he would have shown you both cards,not just the Ace.

One thing that puzzles me about your post, you say that when you folded the 10-10,it was much to everybodys amazement, then in a later post you say that you didnt show the fold, ?

people were amazed i folded having bet half my chips is what i meant, they never saw my cards.

DEmeant0r

mrflash wrote:

its a terrible fold. you are pot committed. no over card. if you think he might be weak you shove, if you think you are behind you fold and thats to his original postflop raise.

There is an over card, a Queen.

Van Dice

Just call flop>
As played, yes, it is a terrible laydown

AdMMM

Lemegeton wrote:

whats the joke :mad:

I should hope you were dealt TT off suit, otherwise I'd be asking questions of the dealer!