Should taxi drivers be "baby sitters"????

Mizu_Ger

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/calls-for-taxi-code-as-drunk-passenger-dies-on-doorstep-1084861.html

A coroner has called on taxi groups to put in place protocols for dealing with drunk passengers who may be at risk of injury or death.

She was very drunk and when they arrived at her house, she had great difficulty getting out of the car. He had to help her into the house with her shopping bags. She managed to open the front door with her key and then fell flat on to the ground. Mr Kelleher said he assumed the woman had passed out from drink, she was breathing "slurpily". He ran to his car and called back to base, but was told that he had done his part. He then rang Anglesea Garda Station at 6.50pm to alert them to the situation and also informed the next door neighbour, Michael Quirke.

This is a sad story and fair play to the taxi driver for doing so much, but should taxi drivers become baby sitters for people who drink themselves stupid? Surely we should be expected to take care of (responsibility for) ourselves??

seamus

While I don't see any obligation on anyone driving a PSV to "look after" inebriated people, there are some basic humanitarian things that someone can/should do. Just because someone has drank themselves into a coma, I don't feel that's an excuse for everyone else to say, "**** him. It's his problem." If there's a risk of serious injury or death, then there's a moral/social obligation to obtain help for the person.

Then bill the arse off them for the cost of that help.

I don't feel however that it should be put into legislation. This could lead to all sorts of claims against taxi drivers after the guy got out and fell over a wall the 100m walk back to his house.

As best I understand it, there are already offences in place for allowing harm/death to come to somebody where you know such a risk exists?

digitally-yours

I think its a common decency to help anyone.

I dont have a problem with this.Most of the Taxi drivers in Ireland are very nice.
Never had problems. But there is always a minority.

My last discussion with a taxi driver was about "gay culture" in Ireland and i have to say his comments were very strongly against it. cant put details as it deserves a thread own its own but his point was "we are destroying the nation"

Mizu_Ger

Its common decency to help someone out, but I don't think taxi drivers should be obliged to help people. If people learned to take more responsibility for themselves, then the country would be a better place!

digitally-yours

Mizu_Ger wrote:

Its common decency to help someone out, but I don't think taxi drivers should be obliged to help people. If people learned to take more responsibility for themselves, then the country would be a better place!

I agree with this.

Mossy Monk

Leave taxi drivers drive cars. If someone can't look after themselves then tough ****.

From some of the stories about dodgy taxi drivers I have heard I'm surprised he didn't treat her to some surprise sex.

mickoneill30

ronoc wrote:

From some of the stories about dodgy taxi drivers I have heard I'm surprised he didn't treat her to some surprise sex.

There's the problem I'd have. What if someone like that saw the taxi driver bringing some pissed woman to her house. He'd assume that the taxi driver was up to no good. Then it'd be the taxi drivers word against the person that assumes the worst. The woman would be no use.

End result. I'd imagine taxi drivers will just leave pissheads to look after themselves.

Maple

Mizu_Ger wrote:

Its common decency to help someone out, but I don't think taxi drivers should be obliged to help people. If people learned to take more responsibility for themselves, then the country would be a better place!

+ 1.

Mint Sauce

read this story this morning, think he done almost all he could, and fair play to what he did, he could have drove of as soon as he got his money and left her to her own devices, by hanging around he could have opened himself up to an assult claim, from either the victim or a over suspiciuous passer by, at he end of the he is not responsible for his passenger once they are out of the car, yes of course there is a moral issue, do you hang around until they are inside their home safely, do you speed of to your next fare as soon as they have paid, if you issue a protolcal for dealing with drunk passengers, where do you stop, as most of the drunk pasengers come out pubs or clubs, surely the licencies are in breech of their responsibility by allowing someone to get such a state

ali.c

Where the hell is the "personal responsibility", fair play to the taxi man for doing what he did, which in current climate sober men around drunken women can lead to the man being wrongly accused of inappropriate behaviour etc etc.

If taxi drivers were obiliged to follow a protocol to deal with very very drunk people then i can see them being more picky about their passengers tbh.

I have found most taxi-drivers to be fairly alright, just out making a living like everyone else, some assholes to of course but that is the same as everything else. they are not trained paramedics so why should they be required to take care of inebrited people is beyond me.

He alerted the neighbour and the police, i suppose he hindsight he could of called an ambulance. Actually i think that is what men should do when confronted with an inerbited woman, rather than intervene directly. That way he is also protected from false accusations whilst ensuring the safety of the woman in question.

projectmayhem

courtesy is one thing from the taxi driver perspective, but duty means that if some dumb schmuck gets too drunk they could have a case to bring to court against a taxi driver who didn't tuck them into bed.

besides that, why should taxi drivers do anything other then drive you around? or anyone else for that matter. take care of yourself. if you get so drunk you pass out when you get home then you deserve it. you're a gobsh1te for not knowing your limits in the first place, it's no one elses job to make sure you're ok after self-induced lack of consciousness.

Black Swan

Taxi drivers get a huge business over here (Stateside) as a result of a movement to convince drunks not to drink and drive. MADD (Mothers Against Drunk Drivers) is one group that is trying to reduce death on the roads. They report that half of all roadway deaths are due to drunks in the States, and that more people die on the roads each year than all that died in the Viet Nam War.

Dudess

I agree with seamus. Getting all principled about personal responsibility really is no use when someone is at death's door. Fair enough, it's their own fault, but is that really enough reason to just think "well they could die but **** em, it's not my problem, it's theirs for being so stupid". Could you really live with yourself if you took that attitude and someone DID die?
Also, yes, the woman did choose to consume all that alcohol, but the bar staff should have put a stop to her drinking. I'm not saying the bar staff are accountable but it seems very irresponsible of management not to have some sort of policy in place whereby there's a limit to the amount of alcohol served to an individual.

User45701

Well one taxi driver i talked to told me that twice his time working he has brought a girl home who was hammered and didnt have fare and offered to pay for it with a blow job, He explained to me this is a very bad thing because

1.You cant accept it because she might be a **** and try to say he forced her
2.Could be infected

So then he is ****ed he has a choice of either letting her get out with no payment or taking her to a gardai station and this is bad because it means he wastes his working time when he could be on another fare

layke

Dudess wrote:

but the bar staff should have put a stop to her drinking. I'm not saying the bar staff are accountable but it seems very irresponsible of management not to have some sort of policy in place whereby there's a limit to the amount of alcohol served to an individual.

How do you keep track exactly of how much she had? Or if she's not even buying but her mate is? I think it's impossible to enforce really if anything I believe the onos should be on the person who willingly consumed so much alcohol in the first place.

Dudess

Oh I know. I'm just assuming that her level of drunkenness would have been spotted. I know the bar. It's small and it was relatively early in the day. But yeah, it's easy for me to make assumptions.

Bex81

I think the taxi driver did a good job here.
Im not convinced that all would go out of their way to the extent that he did, nor, in fact, am I convinced that they should.
This guy did what any decent person would do, but you cant force people to behave this way and to legislate in such a way could only lead to trouble

Dudess

Yes, the taxi driver behaved superbly - fair play to the man. But I think it's what most people would do - a protective instinct is bound to kick in. He's probably distraught that the poor woman died, even though he did all he could.

the_syco

Their job is to bring me to my destination. Not to tuck me into bed, and read me a f**king bedtime story.

Nanny state gone mad.

Dudess

Of course, but this was an extreme situation. If you saw someone choking on their vomit, you wouldn't HAVE to help them but you probably would. I don't think their being taxi drivers has anything to do with it, more just how compassionate they are as human beings. Therefore I'm not sure this should be enforced, as it could be abused.

Dara Robinson

tbh its a really dodgy call. I know taxi men that wont pick up girls at night if they are alone for fear of being accused of doing something especially if they are drunk. Now if you have to carry that girl to her door you could be accused of all kinds of things.

Also how are you (as a non medical professional) supposed to know who is in imminent danger of death or not?

Clearly there are situation where you could and would help but making it the law?????

wowy

What about the Gaurds in this particular situation. It wasn't for an hour after the driver called the station that the Guards were sent to the scene. They claim that they didn't consider it serious, seeing as the driver had told them that the passenger was still breathing at that stage. The driver had done all he could-it was the responsibility of the Guards at this stage, and they took their time getting there.

Dudess

Probably because the guards are up to their eyeballs every night with calls about people who have passed out from drinking, the vast majority of these cases not being serious. So, to be fair to the guards, it was probably a bit of a "boy who cried wolf" scenario.

Trojan911

First off, shame on the bar for serving the amount of alcohol to her in the first place. In my opinion they acted very irresponsibly.

I listened to callers coming on local radio this morning to defend their roles as bartenders. The word "Cop Out" springs to mind. A landlord has a responsibility to keep an orderly house & by that it means that it is an offence to permit a drunken person on a licensed premises let alone still serve them. A competant bartender/owner will know how much alcohol has been served & to whom.

Second, I feel the Taxi driver did not do enough to help this person. Common sense should have kicked in here & he should have called for an ambulance. There is only one place for a person in a state of collapse & that's the A&E Department. He should not have accepted the fare in the first instance & certainly should have not left her in the condition she was in when he left. Taxi drivers have a responsibility to the customer. . Let's put it this way, would he have put his mother in the same position & then gone back to work? No, I don't think so.

The Gardaí also should have acted irrespective whether it came through as an emergency call or not. They had a report of a collapse, albeit now on private property, they should have despatched an officer to assess the situation. It is reported they took 1hr 15mins to attend because apparently a collapsed person is not a medical emergency. Any fall could result in a head injury i.e. stem cell damage or internal bleeding. The call should have been upgraded at station level to an emergency.

Drunken people should not be left on their own, nor should they be lifted from the vehicle to their beds or sofa's by taxi drivers or Gardaí. There is a very high danger they will move onto their backs and either choke by swallowing their tongues or choking on their own vomit, as was the case here I believe. If they are that drunk then the Gardaí should take the appropriate steps at the roadside i.e. exercise the Public Order Act or have the person conveyed to an A&E Department.

Finally, for the taxi drivers that called in to the radio station. If they looked up the Taxi Regulators website they will see that they have the right to refuse a fare, demand part or full payment before they take a fare. There are rules in place to protect their interests as well.

Persons wishing to engage the services of Taxis or Hackeys should also look up this site as they also have responsibilities before entering a Taxi or Hackney. No doubt most will look it up when they want to complain.

In my opinion, this lady died as a result of ignorance. I hope a lesson has been learnt. I also appreciate she attributed to her downfall by consuming a large amount of alcohol.

And for the record, I drive a Hackney at weekends & I have experience with dealing with Taxi/Hackney drivers so I know what goes on. I have refused fares on the grounds on drunkenness & I have demanded the payment upfront on many occasions. Apart from pulling one punter from my cab, when he tried to hijack it, I have not encountered any other problems. I am also Emergency Life Support trained and trained in the use of a defibrillator. Maybe the Taxi Regulator should introduce a mandatory basic First Aid course so a driver could at least recognise when a customer could be ill.

All the best.

TJ911...

Spook_ie

I was working in Dublin a while back when a guy flagged me over and asked me to take his brother home. He pointed at this guy who was literaly wall falling with drink! Now I would have taken him home if the guy was willing to accompany him to help pour him out at the other end AND pay for any messiness but all the guy could say was "Your no proper effin taxi driver" so yet another punter with a dim but wrong view of taxi drivers......

Spook_ie

ronoc wrote:

From some of the stories about dodgy taxi drivers I have heard I'm surprised he didn't treat her to some surprise sex.

Thats why you'll find that if someone ( female usualy ) is drunk and falls asleep in the back of my cab and doesn't respond to the usual "Wake up your not home yet" call they will found themselves with a Garda leaning in the cab shaking them out of it and having to pay extra for my waiting around. It can be an expensive lesson especialy if I have to drive to a Garda station to find a Garda but thats the way it has to be....

Reku

Personally I think the taxi man did all that could be expected, the gardaí told him to leave and that someone would be along as soon as possible, they were the ones who's fault it was that she was left alone for an hour.
Then what about the neighbour who had also been informed of her condition.
Stop scapegoating the poor taxi man, they have enough crap to put up with due to drunk fares. I know of instances where taxi drivers have been requested by gardaí to transport people who were completely legless drunk and then attacked by said drunk. If I was a taxi man I think I'd insist on using a breathaliser on anyone wanting me to take them somewhere.

As for the belief that he should have called an ambulence to be quite honest I very much doubt he had the exact number of the garda station on his phone, so odds are he dialled 999 and was put through to the gardaí, not the ambulance.

rs

I have to say, I think the Taxi driver should not be given any grief whatsoever. He went well above and beyond the call of duty.

I mean, he got her inside the house, informed the neighbor, contacted the Garda and followed the Garda instructions.

Placing any blame on him is completely unfair.

JC 2K3

User45701 wrote:

Well one taxi driver i talked to told me that twice his time working he has brought a girl home who was hammered and didnt have fare and offered to pay for it with a blow job, He explained to me this is a very bad thing because

1.You cant accept it because she might be a **** and try to say he forced her
2.Could be infected

So then he is ****ed he has a choice of either letting her get out with no payment or taking her to a gardai station and this is bad because it means he wastes his working time when he could be on another fare

Emm... how is this different to any other case of someone getting a taxi somewhere and not having the fare? The fact she offered a blowjob instead of payment and he refused is irrelevant....

Leeby

What else was he expected to do? He went above and beyond the call of duty, what difference does it make that she passed out in the hall? He could've brought her in, and she could've paid him, stumbled up to bed and choked on her vomit there! There's really nothing more he could've done.
Why does the article bother mentioning that if it was an emergency call it would've been dealt with quicker, if you dial 999 because someones passed out drunk in their own home could you not get in trouble for wasting police time?

mickoneill30

Leeby wrote:

if you dial 999 because someones passed out drunk in their own home could you not get in trouble for wasting police time?

I for one would hope that the Gardai are not speeding off to houses because people are passed out pissed. There's enough real emergencies happening every day that they can't get to quick enough. It is terrible that this lady died but for every 1 person that dies after passing out from drinking too much there are 500 that don't*. I don't think we have enough Garda.

There is always the blame culture we have. It's always someone elses fault. People really need to take responsibility for themselves a bit more. There is a reason we don't let kids drink alcohol. We assume that adults can take that responsibility.

*Statistic made up off the top of my head but you know what I mean.

Mizu_Ger

I don't think anyone here is doubting that this particular driver did the right thing or that he should be in anyway reprimanded for the woman's death. The problem is that this case seems to be leading in the direction of obliging drivers to take care of passengers in a drunken state in the future, which is ridiculous.

Papillon87

Speaking as someone who was in an absolutely shocking state on Friday night/Saturday morning....it's not the taxi driver's responsibility to mollycoddle anyone, but most people, taxi driver or not, would usually feel it the right thing to do to offer someone a helping hand in a really dire situation like that.

Mizu_Ger

Papillon87 wrote:

Speaking as someone who was in an absolutely shocking state on Friday night/Saturday morning....it's not the taxi driver's responsibility to mollycoddle anyone, but most people, taxi driver or not, would usually feel it the right thing to do to offer someone a helping hand in a really dire situation like that.

Its the right thing to do, but they shouldn't be forced. They are out making a living. What's next, get them to take the hyppocratic oath?

Papillon87

Mizu_Ger wrote:

Its the right thing to do, but they shouldn't be forced. They are out making a living. What's next, get them to take the hyppocratic oath?

Haha, no! Perhaps I didn't put that the best way. Of course they're not OBLIGED to, but it's just what I would do I guess. Very much subjective. I wouldn't expect it from someone for instance, but I'd be very appreciative if they did give a helping hand.

Leeby

Mizu_Ger wrote:

I don't think anyone here is doubting that this particular driver did the right thing or that he should be in anyway reprimanded for the woman's death.

I know noone here is suggesting the driver is in any way at fault, I just mean that the fact that the article had this bit about how the response from the guards would have been quicker if he'd dialled 999 implies that they feel he's partly at fault.

Overheal

Having lost someone to hypothermia after a night out last christmas (oh yeah - you probably read it in the paper at some point) I am very strongly for the issue. the last person to see her alive was a lazy taxi driver, that dropped her off in the middle of a storm and not even at the right adress.

Time is money yes but cmon get ****ing reasonable. The conditions she was dropped off in were absolutely unforgiveable and I'd beat the living **** out of the driver if they had disclosed him to the family.

As for the driver in the OP's post, that sounds reasonable enough to me. The only thing the driver could have done besides that is pretty much invite himself into the house and sit them down for coffee and bread :-|

I listened to callers coming on local radio this morning to defend their roles as bartenders. The word "Cop Out" springs to mind. A landlord has a responsibility to keep an orderly house & by that it means that it is an offence to permit a drunken person on a licensed premises let alone still serve them. A competant bartender/owner will know how much alcohol has been served & to whom.

thats always been the sentiment yes but thats so damn hard to control it isnt funny (seriously) - i worked in a night club that serves 500++ people on a thursday night and theres a dozen or more points to purchase alcohol. The only way to be absolutely sure is to bring Breathalisation screening into the point of sale.

Second, I feel the Taxi driver did not do enough to help this person. Common sense should have kicked in here & he should have called for an ambulance. There is only one place for a person in a state of collapse & that's the A&E Department. He should not have accepted the fare in the first instance & certainly should have not left her in the condition she was in when he left. Taxi drivers have a responsibility to the customer. . Let's put it this way, would he have put his mother in the same position & then gone back to work? No, I don't think so.

he went far alright and could have done more alright but try to understand how often they must see that kind of behavior on a very regular basis. Either way the point is moot - it hasnt been the only taxi-faulted death in the last year as I've mentioned; we can expect it to become political.

The Gardaí also should have acted irrespective whether it came through as an emergency call or not. They had a report of a collapse, albeit now on private property, they should have dispatched an officer to assess the situation. It is reported they took 1hr 15mins to attend because apparently a collapsed person is not a medical emergency. Any fall could result in a head injury i.e. stem cell damage or internal bleeding. The call should have been upgraded at station level to an emergency.

Drunken people should not be left on their own, nor should they be lifted from the vehicle to their beds or sofa's by taxi drivers or Gardaí. There is a very high danger they will move onto their backs and either choke by swallowing their tongues or choking on their own vomit, as was the case here I believe. If they are that drunk then the Gardaí should take the appropriate steps at the roadside i.e. exercise the Public Order Act or have the person conveyed to an A&E Department.

I can't imagine the constraint on resources the Gardai might be under on the weekends so I won't try. Needless to say I'm sure they get their hands full.

Let me be clear: I'd be one to moan about the Gardai (they do seem lazy half the time and when you want to make an appointment to renew your Immigration Card they are never EVER there) but when this stuff happens they do get to work - the team assigned to my family's case was very thorough, professional and sympathetic.

Finally, for the taxi drivers that called in to the radio station. If they looked up the Taxi Regulators website they will see that they have the right to refuse a fare, demand part or full payment before they take a fare. There are rules in place to protect their interests as well.

Persons wishing to engage the services of Taxis or Hackeys should also look up this site as they also have responsibilities before entering a Taxi or Hackney. No doubt most will look it up when they want to complain.

In my opinion, this lady died as a result of ignorance. I hope a lesson has been learnt. I also appreciate she attributed to her downfall by consuming a large amount of alcohol.

And for the record, I drive a Hackney at weekends & I have experience with dealing with Taxi/Hackney drivers so I know what goes on. I have refused fares on the grounds on drunkenness & I have demanded the payment upfront on many occasions. Apart from pulling one punter from my cab, when he tried to hijack it, I have not encountered any other problems. I am also Emergency Life Support trained and trained in the use of a defibrillator. Maybe the Taxi Regulator should introduce a mandatory basic First Aid course so a driver could at least recognise when a customer could be ill.

All well and good but from an economics point of view this entire debacle will drive the cost of Taxi transport up. Already with the Taxi Regulator set up none too recently to control the pricing: grand. but now if you start demanding exceptionally qualified drivers it would only drive the entire system into chaos. Even a basic course like this would cost a considerable amount to implement and the cost of which would ultimately fall on the passenger. Granted that all seems fair but how high do these fares have to get before more people decide drunkenly that they are well enough to walk it in poor weather?

When there is trouble though I agree that if the Gardai get a report from a Taxi Dispatch it should be treated with a little more priority. I dont think Drivers should be mandated into a course but they should be informed by some manner of a solid protocol to follow.

EDIT: as an aside - perhaps tax on alcohol should reduce the passenger fare between 12 - 4AM ?

Awful Scut Mk2

Trojan911 wrote:

First off, shame on the bar for serving the amount of alcohol to her in the first place. In my opinion they acted very irresponsibly.

I listened to callers coming on local radio this morning to defend their roles as bartenders. The word "Cop Out" springs to mind. A landlord has a responsibility to keep an orderly house & by that it means that it is an offence to permit a drunken person on a licensed premises let alone still serve them. A competant bartender/owner will know how much alcohol has been served & to whom.

Second, I feel the Taxi driver did not do enough to help this person. Common sense should have kicked in here & he should have called for an ambulance. There is only one place for a person in a state of collapse & that's the A&E Department. He should not have accepted the fare in the first instance & certainly should have not left her in the condition she was in when he left. Taxi drivers have a responsibility to the customer. . Let's put it this way, would he have put his mother in the same position & then gone back to work? No, I don't think so.


TJ911...

The only piece of your post I can make head nor tail of is the bit further down where you state the woman 'died of ignorance'. You're right, she did, and it was her own.

At the end of the day, people have to take responsibility for their own actions. If I'm drunk as a skunk and I fall and hit my head, it's nobody's fault but my own. It's terrible that the woman died, but there's no one else to blame for what happened.

Taxi drivers and guards have enough to do without taking care of people who drink themselves into a stupor and then expect someone else to look after them.

He was perfectly entitled to take that fare, I'm sure he's often taken some in a worse state who went home and slept it off.

Leeby

Trojan911 wrote:

. He should not have accepted the fare in the first instance .
. If they looked up the Taxi Regulators website they will see that they have the right to refuse a fare, demand part or full payment before they take a fare. There are rules in place to protect their interests as well.
...

Yeah you're right, he should have refused her fare, as should any other taxi driver she tried to hail, then she would've been able to die choking on her own vomit in the street instead, that'd be just as good, no, it'd be better!

arybvtcw0eolkf

Overheal wrote:

Having lost someone to hypothermia after a night out last christmas (oh yeah - you probably read it in the paper at some point) I am very strongly for the issue. the last person to see her alive was a lazy taxi driver, that dropped her off in the middle of a storm and not even at the right adress.

Time is money yes but cmon get ****ing reasonable. The conditions she was dropped off in were absolutely unforgiveable and I'd beat the living **** out of the driver if they had disclosed him to the family.

How do you know that the driver didn't just carry out your friends instructions?.

If the driver had held onto your friend he could have been done for kidnapping her.

Sorry it sounds harsh, but from what you say it sounds like the responsiblity for this lies with your friend and not the driver.

Trojan911

Overheal wrote:

Having lost someone to hypothermia after a night out last christmas (oh yeah - you probably read it in the paper at some point) I am very strongly for the issue. the last person to see her alive was a lazy taxi driver, that dropped her off in the middle of a storm and not even at the right adress.

I hear your point, and I'm sorry for your loss. I agree with you there. When I drop customers home after the night club I will assure them I will drop them to their doors especially females. It only takes a few extra minutes of my time. I am not money orientated I am customer service orientated. This ensures the customer will call me again when needed and they do, so I keep my business and assure their safe delivery home.

TJ911...

Trojan911

Leeby wrote:

Yeah you're right, he should have refused her fare, as should any other taxi driver she tried to hail, then she would've been able to die choking on her own vomit in the street instead, that'd be just as good, no, it'd be better!

Absolutely, and she may have been seen by a member of the public on that friday evening at 6.30pm in a busy street of Cork, who would have had the cop on to dial straight for an ambulance...

TJ911...

goldenbrown

the publican or employee should be imprisoned for gbh for once again selling someone alcohol above and beyond safety levels, (powerful lobby group in the dail with many td-publicans)...Judge was wildly wrong

Leeby

Trojan911 wrote:

Absolutely, and she may have been seen by a member of the public on that friday evening at 6.30pm in a busy street of Cork, who would have had the cop on to dial straight for an ambulance...

TJ911...

Or on the other hand she could've spent the last minute of her life being pissed on by a stranger who thinks it's hilarious to piss on drunks.

Mizu_Ger

goldenbrown wrote:

the publican or employee should be imprisoned for gbh for once again selling someone alcohol above and beyond safety levels, (powerful lobby group in the dail with many td-publicans)...Judge was wildly wrong

I disagree. This is passing the blame again. The only person responsible for her drinking too much is herself. Making the pubs responsible for moderating our drinking is allowing people to do what they want and blame someone else.