How long can they keep my deposit?

KBarry

We moved out of an apartment a few weeks ago (24 August to be precise). I got a call from the letting agency a couple of days later saying they were taking 50 euro out of the deposit for cleaning. Quite surprised at that as we always make a point of leaving a place cleaner than when we moved in but I let that go. Landlord must be a lot fussier than most.
Another week later I got another call saying that as "you have broken the storage heater that will be another 50 euro off the deposit". News to me as I hadn't even used the storage heater since January after getting astronomical ESB bills. The cleaning bill had also gone up to 60 euro.
Now I'm annoyed. No sign of the deposit and this thing about the storage heater is bugging me. The cleaning thing I can't do much about, hard to prove now etc. but can they just say I broke something and take an arbitrary sum off me?

Supercell

No way , advise them you do not agree and you will be complaining to the prtb about them and also pursuing them for this through the small claims court.

You shouldn't have agreed to the cleaning costs in the first place either, but what's done is done, think they see you as a soft touch now.

When you handed the keys back was there no inspection of the property and agreement of the state of the place?, whole thing seems very odd to me.

Afuera

Ask for receipts on all the charges that they are trying to land on you. If you tell them that the storage heating was working the last time you used it then it's your word against theirs. Maybe the cleaners they got in damaged it somehow?

It sounds quite suspicious though, since you didn't complain about the first cleaning charge it appears they're trying to milk you for more. Threaten them with taking this to the PRTB unless they give your deposit back immediately.

mikemac

What you should have done was meet the agent and do an inspection on the last day.
When you're happy and any possible charges are agreed, hand over the keys when you get cash/cheque in your hand and never before.
And don't accept "we'll post it out to you".

NEVER EVER hand over keys without agreed costs and the deposit back.
Too late now but you'll know for next time

KBarry

That was my third let through an agency and never had any problems before. Only once was there an inspection on the day I left, and I never got the deposit back on the same day from any of them. Never took this long though and I wasn't shafted either.

Called this crowd on Friday and again this morning and being fobbed off. Think you are right... they think I'm a soft touch. I'll call again at 4pm and then it will be onto the PRTB to see what they say about all this.

Am I allowed to say who it is?

KBarry

The letting agency have told me the landlord is on holiday so unable to contact them. It's alright for some. I am struggling to pay my bills! :mad:

I have a form from the PRTB. I think I should be entitled to claim the 25 euro fee for getting the PRTB involved. What about interest? They have had my 700 euros for a year. Actually, 13 months now. They have taken me for a ride so I think I'll do a bit of riding myself. Am I entitled?

Afuera

KBarry wrote:

The letting agency have told me the landlord is on holiday so unable to contact them. It's alright for some. I am struggling to pay my bills! :mad:

This sounds like a commonly used excuse (away on holidays). Did they tell you a date for when the landlord is expected back? If they know that he's away on holidays, yet don't know when he's coming back, then you can assume it's total crap. Tell them to stop bullsh*ting you and ask to speak to the manager. Explain to them that you will also be naming the agency on the dispute you are taking to the PRTB as being party to the witholding of your deposit. Do not settle for anything they say until they can tell you a date by which you will get your deposit back. Best of luck.

KBarry wrote:

I have a form from the PRTB. I think I should be entitled to claim the 25 euro fee for getting the PRTB involved. What about interest? They have had my 700 euros for a year. Actually, 13 months now. They have taken me for a ride so I think I'll do a bit of riding myself. Am I entitled?

I don't think you'll get back the fee or be able to charge interest. I wouldn't waste my time trying.

KBarry

Thanks. I'll take your advice on boards. Seems a bit unfair to be though. I have to pay to get back what's rightfully mine. They just give it back when they are good and ready.

karen3212

oh op, goodluck with it all. Disgraceful behaviour in my book. The landlord is away my *ss.

antoinolachtnai

Apply for everything you can to the PRTB including all the reasonable expenses you can think of. They may or may not give it to you.

kazzer

An old thread I know, but I cant seem to find a definitive answer to this.

How should you deal with return of a deposit? I've been told by the estate agent that the landlord has 7 days to return the deposit once the keys are returned. Personally I'd obviously prefer to have the deposit handed over when the keys are handed over which is fair, but whats the law? I see some people here saying don't hand over the keys until you have the deposit but what are you to do, practically I mean, if they just wont? Its only inconveniencing yourself when you are trying to move into a new place. So any advice? Thanks in advance.

Climate Expert

kazzer wrote: »

An old thread I know, but I cant seem to find a definitive answer to this.

How should you deal with return of a deposit? I've been told by the estate agent that the landlord has 7 days to return the deposit once the keys are returned. Personally I'd obviously prefer to have the deposit handed over when the keys are handed over which is fair, but whats the law? I see some people here saying don't hand over the keys until you have the deposit but what are you to do, practically I mean, if they just wont? Its only inconveniencing yourself when you are trying to move into a new place. So any advice? Thanks in advance.

If you have the keys you have the power. Ask them when do they want to inspect the house and meet them there with the keys. They'll tell you any crap to keep your money so play hard.

If they don't have the keys then they can't let again.

kazzer

Thanks. Im tempted to do that I really am, that is naturally the approach I want to take. And after reading through some of the old threads on this topic it makes me sick to think people can just so easily withhold someone elses hard earned money. But on the other hand I want to follow the procedure as much as possible. There may be a dispute over the deposit and in the case of taking it to court I want to show that i have 'played by-the-rules'. Can anyone clarify this for me

Climate Expert

kazzer wrote: »

Thanks. Im tempted to do that I really am, that is naturally the approach I want to take. And after reading through some of the old threads on this topic it makes me sick to think people can just so easily withhold someone elses hard earned money. But on the other hand I want to follow the procedure as much as possible. There may be a dispute over the deposit and in the case of taking it to court I want to show that i have 'played by-the-rules'. Can anyone clarify this for me

Maybe get onto threshold about the legalities of it. The way I see it you don't get your keys till you pay a months rent and deposit so why should it be the other way around.

The govt. should get busy and get a deposit intermediary service going. It would save the PTRB and tenants so much hassle.

Emerald Lass

micmclo wrote: »

What you should have done was meet the agent and do an inspection on the last day.
When you're happy and any possible charges are agreed, hand over the keys when you get cash/cheque in your hand and never before.
And don't accept "we'll post it out to you".

NEVER EVER hand over keys without agreed costs and the deposit back.
Too late now but you'll know for next time

not exactly reliable advice - most LLs (myself included) will not simply hand over cash on the final day. First you need to go through the inventory which was done on the day tenant moved in - I always take photos which the tenant signs. these get compared to the condition of the property on vacation. Next, you ned to check all appliances are working (i.e put the washing machine on a wash etc) then go through the house to check heating etc is working. This can take a few hours. Then I would check that I have a forwarding address in case there are any outstanding bills, and ring the utilities companies. once all this is done then and only then I would give the deposit back. If there was any issue I would raise it there and then - not weeks later like your agency did - that was bad form.

If I was in any doubt about the deposit, or if the tenant demanded it back immediately I would give a post dated cheque, and provided all was well they could cash it a few days later - if something was amiss I would cancel the cheque.

This shows how important a thorough inventory is when moving in and again upon vacating the premises.

Climate Expert

This can take a few hours

If the landlord wanted to piss about for a few hours I'd be there with them every step of the way till I got my money looking over there shoulder.

sweetie

Emerald Lass wrote: »

Next, you ned to check all appliances are working (i.e put the washing machine on a wash etc) then go through the house to check heating etc is working.

surely if a washing machine is broken it's hardly a tenants fault (unless the door's been ripped off) Similarly, just because the heating isn't working, you can't blame the tenant (unless the rad has been pulled from the wall) Surely you should be looking at the external state of these things rather than their inner workings?

mikemac

Emerald Lass wrote: »

Next, you ned to check all appliances are working (i.e put the washing machine on a wash etc) then go through the house to check heating etc is working.

Unless the door is smashed or ripped off, it's not the tenants problem. If you test it and it doesn't go on a wash, then the landlord can fix it unless you can prove they broke it. And with the kind of problem you're describing it's not likely. The tenant is hardly taking off panels and messing with the electronics.

Emerald Lass wrote: »

This can take a few hours.

A few hours, jaysus what are you doing? If you were my landlord, I'd happily wait with you but I'd be interested to know what was taking so long. You mentioned heating, if a radiator doesn't work, it's very unlikely the tenant broke it. How exactly do you even break a metal radiator?

Emerald Lass wrote: »

If I was in any doubt about the deposit, or if the tenant demanded it back immediately I would give a post dated cheque,

No entirely sure that's legal, possibly it is.
Any tenant wants their deposit back immediately, the same way you wanted a deposit and a months rent in advance immediately when they moved in. Or would you accept a post-dated deposit cheque from a tenant? Unlikely I reckon

Calina

Emerald Lass wrote: »

not exactly reliable advice - most LLs (myself included) will not simply hand over cash on the final day.

This has not been my experience actually. I find that although I've had differences with landlords (where they have generally been in the wrong and contravening their own leases and prevailing legislation) I have always received deposit in return for keys. Anyone who doesn't want to return the deposit on inspection is not someone that I would generally trust in business. In Belgium, incidentally, damage deposits tend to be held in escrow accounts.

Frankly based on the rest of your post I would not want to do business with you. The climate of mistrust which you create is unreal.

I will also add that if the utilities are in your tenants' names, your paranoia about costs going forward is utterly misplaced. The utilities should be in the name of your tenants anyway. If they are not, the paranoid photography is a bit of overkill in the wrong place.

ZYX

Emerald Lass wrote: »

Next, you ned to check all appliances are working (i.e put the washing machine on a wash etc) then go through the house to check heating etc is working.

Presumably, then you would offer a sincere apology to tenant that the appliances were not working properly and offer some kind of refund.

Emerald Lass wrote: »

If I was in any doubt about the deposit, or if the tenant demanded it back immediately I would give a post dated cheque

Which the tennant would simply bring to bank to cash. Very, very rarely will bank not cash a post dated cheque.

bugler

There is no specific period within which a deposit is supposed to be returned, I believe the wording of the RTA 2004 merely states the tenant is entitled to "prompt" return of the deposit. What is prompt? Well I don't see why it can't be done within days in many cases, or a week at most, unless there are issues to be resolved.

I did toy with the idea of not handing back keys until I got my deposit this time around and it is something I'd consider doing in future. Ultimately I didn't bother this time as the letting agent is a decent sort and I knew there wouldn't be any issue from his side. The landlord was slow to return it though just through laziness, thankfully I didn't need it urgently for any reason.

The tenant can probably help themselves by making themselves available for an inspection on the final day, by ensuring they've taken care of any utility bills and have proof of such, and leave the place in good order. After that there is no real reason for delay. The only reason these things drag out is through laziness and incompetence, if not bad faith and greed.

By the way, my own advice would be if you haven't got the deposit with a reasonable timeframe then write to them asking for it back immediately, and mention the PRTB. If you don't have it after that then you should probably lodge the PRTB complaint. They take quite a while to come around so you may as well get the ball rolling.

kazzer

I did contact Threshold and they did mention that the law is that the deposit should be returned "promptly", whatever that means. Guess I will just have to see what happens, the estate agency is certainly not helping to mediate matters.

Climate Expert

Then it stands to reason that your key return should be equally prompt.

Emerald Lass

micmclo wrote: »

The tenant is hardly taking off panels and messing with the electronics.

Naive, to say the least - IT HAPPENS! believe me

obviously you are not a LL. Tenants do, and have been known to damage things badly, and then try to cover it up. As part of the lease agreement a tenant is expected to reasonably maintain the property to the standard in which is was given. This means that if the washer/heating etc was not working then they should have informed the LL immediately and not left it until moving out time.

micmclo wrote: »

A few hours, jaysus what are you doing? If you were my landlord, I'd happily wait with you but I'd be interested to know what was taking so long. You mentioned heating, if a radiator doesn't work, it's very unlikely the tenant broke it. How exactly do you even break a metal radiator?

I have heard of metal rads being broken, of leaks in the heating system caused by the tenants due to trying to rig the gas meter so they wouldn't have to pay, of tenants breaking things and then rather than take the hit and loose some deposit they try to cover it up.

micmclo wrote: »

No entirely sure that's legal, possibly it is.
Any tenant wants their deposit back immediately, the same way you wanted a deposit and a months rent in advance immediately when they moved in. Or would you accept a post-dated deposit cheque from a tenant? Unlikely I reckon

You're right, I would not accept a post dated cheque for a deposit as I give the property in full knowlegde that everything is in working order. In fact when a tenant moves in I go through everything with them and switch on the heat, washer etc, show everythig is working. In addition before a tenant moves in I have all electrical equipment safety tested by an electrician. So I KNOW the property and its contents are in top condition and working order. I am a fair tenant and if they told me a washer broke out of their control I would get it fixed, so when they move out I expect it to still be working.

As for what I am doing for an hour - well believe me, not all damage is immediately obvious. Move the beds and wardrobes, look behind furniture - you never know what 'joy's' you will find. Little timmy's wonderful artwork with a spoon which he gouged out a lovely picture of a transformer! or the great big hole in the carpet where the teenage son burned a hole with the iron! it happens and it costs money, and a lot of tenants will, if possible try to cover it up. both these thing happened to a friend of mine, and whilst not the end of the world, did cost a decent few quid to repair, but by that time the tenant had their deposit and there was sweet FA my mate could do about it. He wishes he had now taken a bit longer inspecting and move the wardrobe and the bed! would have saved him the cost of a plasterer and a new carpet.

I may seem mistrustful, but the property I rent I have worked damn hard for and I am only renting out because I had to move due to work commitments. It is worth a lot of money to me and I had to work many hours to be able to even apply for a mortgage, so yes, I am going to guard it to my best ability, damn right. And any mistrust comes from the many many stories other LL's have told me - one who has been renting for many years, and who rents quality apartments, and he has still had seemingly 'decent' people totally trash a place.

In fairness, if my tenant gives notice of leaving then I do not wait til the last day to do the inspection - I make a time convenient to them to call by a week or so before hand, and thats when I would do the 'full' inspection, and tell them that it will take a bit of time. Once all is well I would then agree to refund, and on the last day just a cursory inspection is needed. I also carry out quarterly inspections of the property anyway.

It may seem mistrustful, but it works, and my tenants and me know where we stand. I would rather be over cautious than out of pocket to thousands. As we all know, the PRTB doesnt give a crap about good LL's - you can be the worst tenant known to man, owe your LL thousands and the PRTB will still probably rule in your favour. The only person who will look after my interests is me, and if that means taking my time to do an inspection so be it. But once all was well I would hand over the deposit without delay.