Ground Source Heat Pump running costs?

Westford

I'm still trying to make a call on the primary heating method for a up coming self-build. From reading the various posts on this site, it would appear that there is quite a bit of first hand experience with heat pump solutions. With that in mind, would it be possible to get some replies from people who have already installed and are using a heat-pump. I'm looking at horizontal & vertical ground solutions, but if I can get data on air-air, and well as the ground soltuoion that would be welcome. I'm looking to get an idea of the typical running cost, and perhaps an idea of the install costs. Example.... House-size / Heat Pump type / Pump manufacturer / Rating / Install costs / yearly running cost estimate.
Many of the threads seem to get into broader discussions about the pros & cons, and general heating questions. And while that is extremely useful, I think a thread covering this costing information might be something that people find interesting. Just my two cents.:)

yop

Westford, -

Installed Heliotherm GSHP in Feb of last year through Climate control in a house of 2100 sq ft, timber framed (this is a factor on size of heatpump) cost circ 13k euro EX the cost of area excavation and 2 loads of sand.

Running costs for a 15 week period up to June for ALL electricity including heating, hot water, oven, fridge, washing machine, dishwasher, tumble drier, tvs, satellite equipment, laptops etc averages 16 euro per week.

I will do a reading again so that I can get a longer average, of course I am in the mildest part of the year but that gives u an idea.

fitzie79

is there anyone else with more information to add to this thread. as westford said there are lots of threads/info on heat pumps but not as much on running costs etc.

also, i presume that the payback time that is often quoted of 10 to 15 years does not include extra interest that would be paid back on an effectively bigger mortgage?

sunnysoutheast

hi - one thing to bear in mind is that you should factor in (significant) costs for spares at some stage. Friends of ours have one in two years now (horizontal collector) and they were very happy with it - estimated elec. costs about €3-4/week average over the year. It's now gone on the blink, the importer's nowhere to be seen and they're having a high old time getting spares from abroad.

If you're looking at a 10-15 year period you will almost certainly have to replace compressors and pumps in that time.

SSE

yop

Who installed it, they are the first point of contact. They dont sound like a country name do they?

jasgrif11

Have vertical source heat pump (nibe) installed by Ashgrove a year ago. My 12 month bill total came to €1231 for all my electricity (heating, hot water, and general user electricity). I dont have any other source of heat except a gas fire in the sitting room. House is 3250sqft.

DA-LAD

jasgrif11 wrote: »

Have vertical source heat pump (nibe) installed by Ashgrove a year ago. My 12 month bill total came to €1231 for all my electricity (heating, hot water, and general user electricity). I dont have any other source of heat except a gas fire in the sitting room. House is 3250sqft.

Hey Jasgrif.
Do ya mind me askin what size heat pump they installed and how well your house is insulated with it. Also how many zones they have divided house into.

i need to make a decision fairly soon on a supplier but am getting different info off all of em. Some say it is better to limit house to 2 or 3 zones as its beter for heat pump. others have 6-8 zones with thermostatic controls in each zone to allow rooms that are not used to be switched off or temp reduced. This makes sense to me !!!
Also have been offered various sizes of heat pump ranging from 11-18 kw
(based on installing kingspan cavity insulation and 50mm insulated slab plus 100mm of floor insulation)
House size similar to your own at 3100 sq/ft

Do-more

DA-LAD, if I might give you my 2 cents!

In the end I didn't go with a heatpump but in my research I picked up some info which might help you.

1. Heat pumps are best run with a constant circulation of water, so good design of your pipe layout is essential. This should ensure that even when zones are switched on and off the flow rate across the heat pump remains stable.

2. Any heatpump supplier I enquired with only used a "rule of thumb" measurement when calculating the size of pump required. They then took the next size up in the range of pumps available to them that would cover the requirement. As many suppliers don't seem to have a comprehensive range of pumps available the jump in capacity to the next one can be large! This might help explain the large variation in size of pump you are being quoted for.

Given the large outlay for a heatpump, if I were in your position I would have a good energy consultant do a proper analysis, from your plans, of your heating requirements and have them give you their opinion on the type of setup that should suit you best. They should be giving you impartial advise and the outlay for their services would be well spent IMO.

fitzie79

do-more - are there many energy consultants out there that offer impartial advice? I have done a lot of research but can't make up my mind. Could u pm some of them to me if you know of any?

DA-LAD

Do More.
Could ya pm me any contact details you may have also.
Thanks.

Nordic

Our results.

eamonk

Hi jasgrif11,
I have the Nibe Fighter 1140 installed with a horizontal collector system. From taking readings on the ESB meter we worked out that the house (heating/water/cooking/etc) is costing over 350euros a month.

We just moved in a week before Christmas and cant beleive it is so expensive.

Any ideas would be helpful.
Eamon K.

danyosan

eamonk wrote: »

Hi jasgrif11,
I have the Nibe Fighter 1140 installed with a horizontal collector system. From taking readings on the ESB meter we worked out that the house (heating/water/cooking/etc) is costing over 350euros a month.

We just moved in a week before Christmas and cant beleive it is so expensive.

Any ideas would be helpful.
Eamon K.

I would be very interested in your findings to this as well, as that is what we have planned to install in our new build, although with a vertical collector. That seems unbelievably excessive to me.

ircoha

eamonk wrote: »

Hi jasgrif11,
I have the Nibe Fighter 1140 installed with a horizontal collector system. From taking readings on the ESB meter we worked out that the house (heating/water/cooking/etc) is costing over 350euros a month.

We just moved in a week before Christmas and cant beleive it is so expensive.

Any ideas would be helpful.
Eamon K.

That is a savage number:
Just some doodling:
350/month = 1129 cents per day

Assume ESB is 20 cents a Kwhr, so 56.45 Kwhr/day
which is 2.35kw per hour every hour
ie an electric kettle plugged in 24/7

Can you post the meter reading please:)

From the nibe website, with my emphasis
NIBE FIGHTER 1140 is a heat pump for heating single and multifamily houses and industrial buildings. The FIGHTER 1140 is a versatile product with advanced control equipment. The control is also prepared for bivalent heating mode in combination with an oil or gas-fired boiler. This heat pump type is available in the output range of 5 to 17 kW in nine versions. A cartridge heater is fitted in the factory installed electrical cartridge with 3 x 3 kW for 3 x 400 V and 3 x 2 kW for 230V.

You may need to see what these boys are doing

eamonk

Hi all,
Here is the meter reading in the last 26 hours:
Day: 43 units
Night: 28 units
This values are fairly average over the last month.

We keep the Heatpumps curve value at 9 and also step it back by 8 degrees from 7am till 3pm to reduce the cost.

The contractor was here today and I explained the problem - hes not sure whats up - so Unipipe are getting a call in the morning.

ircoha

thanks: it would seem that most of your heat is coming from the elec heaters and and not the heatpump circuits.

make sure ur neighbour is not on a spur:D

eamonk

Not sure what you mean - there is a built-in immersion but that was the first thing I turned off.

No worries about the neighbours.

Qwerty?

We have a NIBE HP for over 2 years, and looking back over costings, our Heatpump never used more than 30 units in 24 hours. (and that was during a very cold spell 2 years ago)

Have you tried turning the HP off for a 12 hour nighttime period, and seeing what happens to the readings as I wonder is there something else using up units ?

Also does it sound like the HP is on all the time?

Q.

eamonk wrote: »

Hi all,
Here is the meter reading in the last 26 hours:
Day: 43 units
Night: 28 units
This values are fairly average over the last month.

We keep the Heatpumps curve value at 9 and also step it back by 8 degrees from 7am till 3pm to reduce the cost.

The contractor was here today and I explained the problem - hes not sure whats up - so Unipipe are getting a call in the morning.

bauderline

I would guess you can tackle this by a process of elimination.

Turn off everything else in the house for 24 hrs, and I mean everything else and see what the unit readings are.... Clear out the fridge and freezer and go away for the weekend. Leave heat system as normal.

If you can't do this wait for spring and shut the heating system down for 24 hours. This will tell you if the heating system is the real culprit....

b.

DA-LAD

Could you connect this to power supply of heat pump to monitor usage ?



http://cgi.ebay.ie/Efergy-Wireless-Electricity-Power-Energy-Monitor-Meter_W0QQitemZ120224309108QQihZ002QQcategoryZ106260QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

dhaslam

One way of isolating the heat pump usage is to just have it running at night. This should be the normal situation anyway except for very cold weather. One problem which can cause excessive usage is fluid leak. If there is a pressure loss the pump will be working away with very little output.

eamonk

Talking to Unipipe and they reckon this could be normal for the size of the house - 3500sq feet. Told that factors such as insulation, location, etc increase/decrease the running costs.
Still dont buy it though.

Got the ESB units down to 60 over 24 hours (Sat 9pm to Sun 9pm) by reducing the Curve value to 8 and stepping back 3 degrees from 7am to 11pm.

Getting my electrician to fit a meter to the HP this week. It wont tell me anything new.

holdfast

The heatpump have is a 17kw and will cost me around 450euros to run for the winter. around 2-3euros a day

eamonk

Hi holdfast
A few questions if dont mind...
Do you leave it running all the time?
What size of house do you have?
What tremperature to you have inside your house?
What type of heatpump do you have?

Thanks.

quarrymen

We're keeping an eye on the power consumption associated with our Hautec HP. The business of the electric heater cartridge is a bit of a mystery with this unit also. The HP is rated 9kW output and would seem to draw 2.4kW in normal running. We have clearly labelled and seperate supplies to the Electric Heater (ie cartridge in the HP) , the HP itself and the Control circuit. There is the expected large draw of electricity as it starts up but this lasts only a couple of minutes at most.

So far we are happy but we are not using the system in regular configuration just yet.
We are using the same gadget mentioned by DA-LAD ( "efergy" :a bit more expensive from Maplin than eBay) which can attach to the meter cable or the supply to the HP in order to monitor consumption. It will be some time yet before we are using the Hot Water system and the new heating system in a normal fashion though.

The gadget above responds to changes in consumption every six seconds and is read on a handheld remote control. Its a very simple matter to switch things off or on and notice the change. It also useful to watch what happens as the system starts up. It could be the best €60 or so you spend if you are initiating a new heating system (or even if you are not!)

No problems so far though.

Ericconeally

I am seriously considering installing a geothermal heat pump in my house...does anyone have any life cycle cost information on this renewable energy technology??

soundskin

eamonk wrote: »

Talking to Unipipe and they reckon this could be normal for the size of the house - 3500sq feet. Told that factors such as insulation, location, etc increase/decrease the running costs.
Still dont buy it though.

Got the ESB units down to 60 over 24 hours (Sat 9pm to Sun 9pm) by reducing the Curve value to 8 and stepping back 3 degrees from 7am to 11pm.

Getting my electrician to fit a meter to the HP this week. It wont tell me anything new.

Nibe heat pumps (and similar) keep a record of the following details:
- Number of compressor starts
- Compressor running hours
- Hot water run time
- Add heat run time (immersion)

These are the details one should be looking at when working out how well the heat pump is preforming.

A calculation can be done using this info taking into account, pump sizes, compressor size, immersion size, % day use & % night use, to determine the running costs.

niallys

I have a master therm heat pump with built in hot water tank. 12kw unit heating two storey 2900sq ft house and heats DHW to 60 degrees once a week. 7 zones in total around house. Moved in in May 2015 and it has used 3540 units of electricity for all heat and hot water. We have day night meter so doing the maths it has cost about 500 euro in 18 months. House is 21 - 22 degrees downstairs. And 19-20 upstairs constant. Pump is left on all the time. Few things I would do different if doing it again but nothing too different.

Important to point out house has 10" pumped cavity and airtight result of 0.34 ach. 400mm pumped cellulose in vaulted ceilings, 400mm fibre glass in attic, and 200mm in floor.
Heat is just one element of the build, and running costs are directly related to insulation, Airtightness, and thermal bridges so my setup in a house not as airtight or not as well insulated could cost have 1500 to date.

Important get a meter onto pump to monitor it daily. Ours just came back on this week as temperatures outside have just started to drop into single figures at night.