TV License

CCCP^ · 19-09-2007 8:56am #1

Hellew, im sure this has been brought up before, but I'm just sitting here listening to the Ray D'arcy show and it came to the adverts. So on comes this ad for the TV license, and I was just thinking why do we pay for a TV license?

In England, the BBC is paid for with a TV license. There are no advert's on the BBC, so mainly how the pay for their expenses is through these license payments and i guess selling their show's to other television networks. The BBC operates BBC1 and BBC2 and i think two other radio station's. Over here, your TV license pays for two television station's who run advert's and another two radio station's [i think!] who also run ad's. I could somehow get my head around all of this, if, like the BBC, RTE made quality programming.

But it doesn't. I don't watch TV myself, but i need one to play video games, so I still have to have a TV license, which I think is unfair. Also you need a license for every TV you own in the house. Granted, you get a discount for paying for more than one TV afaik. So what's going on? Do we pay for the TV license so that the inspector's can run ad's everyday to get people to pay their tv license?!

signed - bloody confused.

grumpytrousers · 19-09-2007 9:17am

comparing RTE output to BBC output is a no-brainer; if Ireland had a population of 60 million of whom X% were paying a license, RTE would be (i'd hope) producing BBC style programs. it doesn't have that kind of revenue, thus it doesn't produce that kind of programming.

as for the fact that you don't watch telly...yeah - that's rough; i mean, the law states that if you've a device that *can* pick up signals then you're obliged to buy a license. suppose you might as well get your money's worth and start watching a bit of RTE...you've paid for it!

mikemac · 19-09-2007 9:21am

The BBC operate far more than two radio stations OP.
There seem to be 5 main stations and there are countless others, like an Asian one an for example.

Oh, and the BBC website is class!

CCCP^ · 19-09-2007 9:39am

grumpytrousers wrote:

comparing RTE output to BBC output is a no-brainer; if Ireland had a population of 60 million of whom X% were paying a license, RTE would be (i'd hope) producing BBC style programs. it doesn't have that kind of revenue, thus it doesn't produce that kind of programming.

as for the fact that you don't watch telly...yeah - that's rough; i mean, the law states that if you've a device that *can* pick up signals then you're obliged to buy a license. suppose you might as well get your money's worth and start watching a bit of RTE...you've paid for it!

I understand your point, but RTE's programming is mainly stuff bought from other network's is it not? On today's listing's on their own website, not even half of the program's are of irish origin. I don't expect RTE to pump out something akin to the quality of a Richard Attenbrough documentary all day, but the least they could do is give irish talent a shot. In Canada, a law was passed that stated that 50% of all television and radio output had to be of canada origin, meaning that they had to play canadian bands or show canadian tv program's.

At the time, people said it would just bred mediocrity, because anyone who was canadian was bound to get played regardless of talent and just for where they were from, but Canada has an exceptionally vast pool of talent to draw from, think of all the great comedian's [Dan Akroyd, Mike Myer's] and bands [Tragically Hip, Rush]. Yes, there are 30 million canadian's, but the point is canadian border's the biggest exporter of cultural rubbish, the US, and somehow manages to stand strong. So why do we pay for a TV license only to watch bloody desperate housewives?

mobby · 19-09-2007 9:52am

"Also you need a license for every TV you own in the house."

I think one licence will cover as many TV sets as you want.

copacetic · 19-09-2007 10:01am

CCCP^ wrote:

I understand your point, but RTE's programming is mainly stuff bought from other network's is it not? On today's listing's on their own website, not even half of the program's are of irish origin.

You don't seem to understand the point made above, BBC make 6 billion a year from the license fee. RTÉ make about €150 million. The vast majority of which goes toward home produced programming on radio and TV.

You should be comparing the amount of home produced programming on RTÉ with TV3 not the BBC to see what you license fee gets you.

Also I'm not sure at all that your 'mainly bought from other networks' is through at all. Any proof?

Raytown Rocks · 19-09-2007 10:04am

mobby wrote:

"Also you need a license for every TV you own in the house."

I think one licence will cover as many TV sets as you want.

Thats a fact, One Tv licence per household NOT per TV set.

faceman · 19-09-2007 10:06am

OP, why not ditch your tv and use a computer monitor for games?

Dodge · 19-09-2007 10:10am

CCCP^ wrote:

In Canada, a law was passed that stated that 50% of all television and radio output had to be of canada origin, meaning that they had to play canadian bands or show canadian tv program's.

A huge amount of US tv programmes are filmed in Canada, and as such count as Canadian made (I think a high percentage of crew must be Canadian)

Seriously, look at Canadian TV schedules and see how much of it is made for the bug US networks. As for the stars you mention they only became stars from starring on US TV

BTW Between 6 and 12 tonight on RTE one only the film isn't made locally. RTE2 isn't a fair comparison as its mainly sport (with local presenters and commentators)

CCCP^ · 19-09-2007 10:24am

copacetic wrote:

You don't seem to understand the point made above, BBC make 6 billion a year from the license fee. RTÉ make about €150 million. The vast majority of which goes toward home produced programming on radio and TV.

You should be comparing the amount of home produced programming on RTÉ with TV3 not the BBC to see what you license fee gets you.

Also I'm not sure at all that your 'mainly bought from other networks' is through at all. Any proof?

When you put it into actual figures it makes alot more sense. RTE radio station's are mostly home produced, whereas anything shown on RTE1 is the same. RTE2 is different, I counted only 7 shows for today as being of irish origin, including the news and sport. And it is true, one television license per household cover's all set's within the house. I suppose they need to run those ad to get people to pay their license because 150 million probably isn't enough to run all their costs even with the selling of advertisements.

However, did you know even if you have a broken TV you need a license for it? It's regarded as being capable of repair and so must have a license, wierd.

paulusdu · 19-09-2007 10:37am

I've just had a quick look on the rte website (which i actually think is pretty decent) and in one 24 hour period on RTE1, 17 hours of viewing is made up of non irish programmes. Of the remaining 7 hours there are nearly 2 hours of repeats and 2 hours of News, making a total of 3 hours non repeated irish programmes. (im not discounting the news, i am mearly making a point)

Network 2 fares no better i can see about 2 or 3 hours of irish programmes, and 4 hours of Champions League football (its september so no irish involvement now)

I'm not a big tv fan, but i do watch a few dvd's and have to pay my tv license to have a tv. I will watch rugby and some soccer, but i pay my subscription to setanta now for that.
I would guess i watch RTE and Network 2 maybe once every two weeks, if even that.
So im still pretty unsure as to were my tv license fee goes to

Dodge · 19-09-2007 11:03am

paulusdu wrote:

So im still pretty unsure as to were my tv license fee goes to

You think they get those programmes mentioned above for free?

paulusdu · 19-09-2007 11:12am

Not at all, im pretty sure the champions league rights alone used up a fair proportion of their budget. But wouldn;t it make a lot more sense, to produce more "quailty" Irish programming, rather than importing junk from around the world to use as fillers.

Surely the better of these programmes can be sold to increase revenue yet again, rather than relaying on tv licenses and advertising revenue.

My point is that the amount of quality Irish programmes on RTE and Network 2is not nearly enough.

Mossy Monk · 19-09-2007 11:16am

CCCP^ wrote:

The BBC operates BBC1 and BBC2 and i think two other radio station's.

You forgot BBC3, BBC4, BBC News 24, CBBC, Cbeebies, BBC 1 Scotland, BBC1 Northern Ireland and the rest of the regional channels.

Radio is much more than two channels, Radio 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 music, 7, 1 xtra, all the regionals radio.

godtabh · 19-09-2007 11:25am

I think we need to create a sticky for TV license as this crap gets posted up the whole time and the same arguments are made and the same answers are given

ruskin · 19-09-2007 11:33am

Yea, but all you guys are forgetting that RTE spend our money very wisely. I mean without your tv licence fee, there would be no Your a Star to find the very best Irish musical talent, no Winning Streak with its nail-biting tension, and no Killnascully to split your sides with laughter.

godtabh · 19-09-2007 11:39am

ruskin wrote:

Yea, but all you guys are forgetting that RTE spend our money very wisely. I mean without your tv licence fee, there would be no Your a Star to find the very best Irish musical talent, no Winning Streak with its nail-biting tension, and no Killnascully to split your sides with laughter.

You may not like that crap but plenty of people do.

RTE isnt there to cater for you its there to cater for every one

blackhead · 19-09-2007 11:42am

I unashamedly have not paid TV license in about 4 years - WHY?
Because I think RTE is woefully bad!

You're a star, jigs n reels, real life crime, Rose of Tralee, and the ONE thinns I would be interested in - the Rugby world cup, they aren't showing!

The other thing is that I have zero interest in lining the pockets of the Allen estate down in Ballymaloe!

godtabh · 19-09-2007 11:47am

blackhead wrote:

I unashamedly have not paid TV license in about 4 years - WHY?
Because I think RTE is woefully bad!

You're a star, jigs n reels, real life crime, Rose of Tralee, and the ONE thinns I would be interested in - the Rugby world cup, they aren't showing!

The other thing is that I have zero interest in lining the pockets of the Allen estate down in Ballymaloe!

They got out bid in WRC didnt they? Why because people like you didnt pay what you were meant then you bitch and moan that they didnt get the programes you wanted.

Dodge · 19-09-2007 12:01pm

paulusdu wrote:

But wouldn;t it make a lot more sense, to produce more "quailty" Irish programming, rather than importing junk from around the world to use as fillers.

A 4 hour "quality" drama series would cost over €2million to make. Or roughly what theyll page for 10 US series. (rough figures obviously) Give RTE an unlimited budget and I'm sure they'd love nothing more than to make quality Irish drama (as they're always a ratings winner) but the fact is they cost an absolute fortune.

As for You're A Star etc, while I don't watch them, there's no doubting they are RTE's most profitable types of programmes (In terms of sponsorship, advertising, phonelines, ratings etc).

If showing them on a Sunday evening means I can watch the excellent RTE current affairs, so be it. Sure I'd like more comedies, and more League of Ireland football, and more quality Irish drama but I know not everyone thinks like I do.

PS there is absolute dross on every single TV station.

faceman · 19-09-2007 12:08pm

all you non payers, im dobbin u in. i dont see why i should pay and you shouldnt.

i dont like a fair portion of irish home grown tv/film, be it rte funded or not. but thats not to say we wont ever get it right.

what annoys me the most about rte is how difficult it is for someone who is not related or friendly with someone in rte, to get a job in there.

take the show, "about the house". The presenter now has his dreadful daughter doin pieces on the show. i mean wtf!!

anyway, we need a national tv/radio station. The issue should not be having to pay the license fee. Its here to stay. The issue is gettin Rte is spend the funds appropriately.

aidan_walsh · 19-09-2007 12:11pm

ruskin wrote:

Yea, but all you guys are forgetting that RTE spend our money very wisely. I mean without your tv licence fee, there would be no Your a Star to find the very best Irish musical talent, no Winning Streak with its nail-biting tension, and no Killnascully to split your sides with laughter.

And how much quality home produced entertainment do our leading non-license, advertiser funded channels create each year? What RTE do will not be all things to all people, but at least they are providing an outlet for the talent that is here.

copacetic · 19-09-2007 12:34pm

faceman wrote:

what annoys me the most about rte is how difficult it is for someone who is not related or friendly with someone in rte, to get a job in there.

how so? all staff positions in RTÉ are advertised and must go through public service appointment rules.

CCCP^ · 19-09-2007 2:15pm

I found these two articles which are very interesting, especially the licence one. If you read article 1, the importance of the television licence is made clearer. Basically, RTE need's the fund's generated by the tv licence to sustain itself, but even with this capital, it's not enough to run the station's and network's. So it's about 50% licence and 50% advertisement's. Now if you ask, they could save alot of money by getting rid of Pat Kenny. But then again, alot of people don't seem to mind him, otherwise why he still be around?

There are from time to time good shows. Pure Mule was excellent, and I hope someday to see something that good again on RTE. But I still don't see the point if all i use my tv set for is gaming why i should pay the licence fee? [I watched Pure Mule at my sister's house if anybody was wondering]

1.
http://www.rte.ie/about/licence.html
2.
http://www.rte.ie/about/pressreleases/2006/0930//tvdrama2006.html

Dodge · 19-09-2007 2:18pm

CCCP^ wrote:

There are from time to time good shows. Pure Mule was excellent, and I hope someday to see something that good again on RTE. But I still don't see the point if all i use my tv set for is gaming why i should pay the licence fee? [I watched Pure Mule at my sister's house if anybody was wondering]

How do you there isn't some there that you'd like if you never watch it? :rolleyes:

faceman · 19-09-2007 4:39pm

copacetic wrote:

how so? all staff positions in RTÉ are advertised and must go through public service appointment rules.

just cos they're advertised doesnt mean anything.
Creative roles (e.g. presenters etc) arent subject to normal recruiting legislation.

CCCP^ · 19-09-2007 10:07pm

Dodge wrote:

How do you there isn't some there that you'd like if you never watch it? :rolleyes:

Call it a ****ing wild hunch mate.

Dodge · 19-09-2007 10:48pm

CCCP^ wrote:

Call it a ****ing wild hunch mate.

Or maybe you're talking bollocks

copacetic · 20-09-2007 5:31am

faceman wrote:

just cos they're advertised doesnt mean anything.
Creative roles (e.g. presenters etc) arent subject to normal recruiting legislation.

yes it does, it means they have to follow clearly defined procedures with interview boards, there are certainly no 'jobs for the boys' under that procedure. This procedure is taken extremely seriously with indepenent oversight and union involvement and tbh if you think it is somehow a corrupt procedure you don't know what you are talking about imo.

Outside if this it's not just creative roles that aren't subject to normal rules, it's short term contracts, which is the same anywhere. Also you must be kidding if you think creative roles should be hired using standard interview techniques...

faceman · 20-09-2007 7:55am

copacetic wrote:

yes it does, it means they have to follow clearly defined procedures with interview boards, there are certainly no 'jobs for the boys' under that procedure. This procedure is taken extremely seriously with indepenent oversight and union involvement and tbh if you think it is somehow a corrupt procedure you don't know what you are talking about imo.

Outside if this it's not just creative roles that aren't subject to normal rules, it's short term contracts, which is the same anywhere. Also you must be kidding if you think creative roles should be hired using standard interview techniques...

You missed my point about creative role hiring. re the first point, what experience have you with the recruitment process in rte?

copacetic · 20-09-2007 9:08am

faceman wrote:

You missed my point about creative role hiring. re the first point, what experience have you with the recruitment process in rte?

I don't think I did, I pointed out it was slightly differen, however I do think you are mixing up 'creative' roles (i.e producers) and 'talent'. Producers and exec producers go through the full process.

mickoneill30 · 20-09-2007 9:12am

I pay my TV license. I'm about to ditch Sky and move to free stations only. Why is RTE only available on Sky. If I'm paying for it, it would be nice to get it without resorting to rabbit ears that go crappy if a cloud is in the wrong spot of the sky.

Mossy Monk · 20-09-2007 10:32am

mickoneill30 wrote:

I pay my TV license. I'm about to ditch Sky and move to free stations only. Why is RTE only available on Sky. If I'm paying for it, it would be nice to get it without resorting to rabbit ears that go crappy if a cloud is in the wrong spot of the sky.

RTÉ is locked into a subscription because they were incredibly stupid when they signed the contracts with Sky a few years back. This contract is up next year so we will wait and see what happens then.

hot fuss · 20-09-2007 10:33am

CCCP^ wrote:

Over here, your TV license pays for two television station's who run advert's and another two radio station's [i think!] who also run ad's. I could somehow get my head around all of this, if, like the BBC, RTE made quality programming.

But it doesn't. I don't watch TV myself,

This is just crazy.. You admit you don't want TV, but you say that RTÉ don't make quality programming.. What do you base this on if you never watch RTÉ?

It's also not quite as simple as two TV and two radio stations - you've got two TV stations, four radio stations, rte.ie, the RTÉ Guide and Aertel.

RTÉ have to make a commitment as a public service broadcaster to make a certain amount of home produced programming every year. This will be almost 3,500 hours this year according to their Autumn schedule release, so the argument that it's full of 'bought in' programmes is simply false.

Yes, there are some programmes that don't appeal to everyone, which regulary get slagged off, but yet bring in great viewing figures. No programme is going to be loved by everybody. Programmes are made with a specific audience in mind and you're never going to capture 100% of the population.

copacetic · 20-09-2007 10:59am

hot fuss wrote:

It's also not quite as simple as two TV and two radio stations - you've got two TV stations, four radio stations, rte.ie, the RTÉ Guide and Aertel.

your license fee doesn't pay for rte.ie, the rte guide or aertel. 2FM also fund themselves. You do pay for the orchestras though which you missed out.

all this information is available on rte.ie

http://www.rte.ie/about/licence.html

hot fuss · 20-09-2007 11:37am

My mistake. Although 2fm does sometimes get license fee money. It just didn't get any in 2006, but that's not always the case.

I assume because the Guide and rte.ie don't fulfill any sort of public service remit, that would be the reason they don't get any money? Not sure though..

faceman · 20-09-2007 3:29pm

copacetic wrote:

I don't think I did, I pointed out it was slightly differen, however I do think you are mixing up 'creative' roles (i.e producers) and 'talent'. Producers and exec producers go through the full process.

sorry yes you are right, i mean the talent by creative roles. one of those days where up is down etc!

Trampas · 20-09-2007 10:31pm

|Cookies wrote:

Do you see BBC with Prison Break (which RTE got 3 days after the US, which..is amazing) or Lost etc?

NO!

Did a swap with fair city

Why cant you get your first TV licence online?

You can renew but not gain one

TV License

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