Brother might lose Driving Licence

Thomas

Guys,

my brother has 10 points and he's after being pulled by a guard again. He's done 100k miles over the last 3 years with his job and gathered 10 points in that time. The first two drop off January 08.

He's not a crazy driver - getting caught doing 125km on 100km/h dual c's and 82/3 on a 60km/h road. I know it's no excuse but you should understand he's not a boy racer.

The notice of the last stop arrived today in the post and my question is:

Can I put down my own details on the form and take the points for him(I have none)? Would the guard have taken his licence details while he had the licence during the stop? There is a space on the fixed fine notice to enter a licence name and number if we wish.

Thanks,

Tom

Seth Brundle

If you/he are found out you will be in big trouble (and bear in mind that plenty of gardai read boards!). It is illegal to falsify these details. As for the garda having his licence number, we weren't there and can only speculate - my guess is that if the garda looked at his licence then he took the number.

Secondly, if he is dumb enough to drive in a manner to gather poiints when he is already on 10 points, then maybe he needs to be taught a lesson. For Christs sake, he needs his car for work and he still attracts points whilst on the edge of being banned?

jimmycrackcorm

There's no use taking the points for him in his stead as he'll only accumulate more anyway. Perhaps he should start sticking to the speed limits now.

bazz26

Is this thread for real?

I cannot believe anyone who drives for a living can be daft enough to accumulate 10 or more penalty points without actually seeing sense and the need to be a bit more careful.

crosstownk

kbannon wrote:

It is illegal to falsify these details.

kbannon wrote:

Secondly, if he is dumb enough to drive in a manner to gather poiints when he is already on 10 points, then maybe he needs to be taught a lesson.

jimmycrackcorm wrote:

Perhaps he should start sticking to the speed limits now.

bazz26 wrote:

Is this thread for real?

All of the above. That sort of sums it up, tbh;)

Fr Dougal

crosstownk wrote:

All of the above. That sort of sums it up, tbh;)

What all of the above said. He should stick to the speed limits.

egan007

Thomas wrote:

Guys,

my brother has 10 points and he's after being pulled by a guard again. He's done 100k miles over the last 3 years with his job and gathered 10 points in that time. The first two drop off January 08.

He's not a crazy driver - getting caught doing 125km on 100km/h dual c's and 82/3 on a 60km/h road. I know it's no excuse but you should understand he's not a boy racer.

The notice of the last stop arrived today in the post and my question is:

Can I put down my own details on the form and take the points for him(I have none)? Would the guard have taken his licence details while he had the licence during the stop? There is a space on the fixed fine notice to enter a licence name and number if we wish.

Thanks,

Tom

Sure Go ahead Delay the inevitable.
What's being a boy racer got to do with it?

I would consider myself to be a fast driver - i.e. at the upper end and above but I have only accumulated 2 points in 5 years.

Why? I'm responsible.

Maybe your brother should just concentrate on not getting more points rather than overflowing onto a second license.

anotherlostie

If I ever accumulate 10 points on my licence, I will turn into a granny driver quicker than you could say disqualification. He knew that he was getting a little more leeway come January, so really he should have been very careful til then (at the very least).

Plus what if you started to get points like they were going out of fashion, and lose your licence over the 2 you got in the scam you propose? How would you feel towards your brother then?

axer

Thomas wrote:

Guys,

my brother has 10 points and he's after being pulled by a guard again. He's done 100k miles over the last 3 years with his job and gathered 10 points in that time. The first two drop off January 08.

He's not a crazy driver - getting caught doing 125km on 100km/h dual c's and 82/3 on a 60km/h road. I know it's no excuse but you should understand he's not a boy racer.

The notice of the last stop arrived today in the post and my question is:

Can I put down my own details on the form and take the points for him(I have none)? Would the guard have taken his licence details while he had the licence during the stop? There is a space on the fixed fine notice to enter a licence name and number if we wish.

Thanks,

Tom

Tis all great taking the bullet for him now but what happens in a month or two when he gets caught again? He still gets put off the road and you still have your two penalty points that you took for him. If he hadn't learnt his lesson by his tenth penalty point then he will still get more even if you take these off of him.

Scoobydoobydoo

Your brother is very irresponsible, he knew what he was doing. What on earth have boy racers got to do with it? He is simply breaking the law, repeatedly!

I can see you are trying to do your best by him, but honestly, you are doing him no favours, and he is certainly doing you none, if he is asking this of you, or even allowing you to do this. If he has managed to accumulate so many points, then he has obviously learned nothing and I think you would be very foolish to help in trying to basically hide the mess.

You say he's not a crazy driver - well is getting 10 points not crazy? Sorry, I have never heard of anyone who has more than 4, and that's bad enough.

Keano

Reading everyones comments and I have to agree with all of them. Another point - excuse the pun - to consider is that if something like this were to happen again would you again bail him out? The result your insurance premium may rise! Will your brother pay for this rise???

seamus

As others have said, by taking points for him, all you're doing is delaying the inevitable. He could easily clock up four more points by Spring next year and he'll be off the road.

Also be aware of other implications here. You claim that you were driving and there a couple of possibilities:

1. The Garda who pulled your brother recalls the incident, knows you weren't driving. So he hauls you and your brother into court.
2. Someone queries your driving of the car and discovers that you weren't insured to drive the car that day. Fine & Ban ahoy.

There is no family honour thing here obliging you to do this. Would you take a drink-driving charge as quickly? Your brother's driving is clearly reckless and stupid. My family has four men under 35. One of us has two points, the rest are clear. As said above, I don't know any with more than four points, so ten is not just "bad luck" or "one or two mistakes", it's a consist record of dangerous driving. Let him learn his lesson.

Kimbot

His actions are about to bite him in the a$$ and you should just let them because at the end of the day its his own fault. When the fine goes back in the post the only way he can name another person on the form is if it was a fixed camera that caught him as the gardai will be asked "Who was it you pulled over on XX date in 99-D-XXXX".

FutureGuy

Your brother deserves to be put off the road. He's got 10 points. Don't take the points, it will teack him a valuable lesson and might even save him (and others) from an accident in the future.

Wossack

doesnt sound like he got the point

Linford

You might get away with passing points over to your sibling/partner/friend if you have two or four points (i.e. the Gardai/penalty point issuers might not follow up on the issue), they will almost definitely follow up on someone who currently has 10 points and is about to lose his licence...

testicle

Those high horse riders are quite welcome to post in this thread

Wibbs

Horses of any stature have sweet fanny adams to do with it. Like egan007 I too drive "positively" and I've yet to get any points at all. It's not luck either it's good sense. Now someone needing a car to make a living should have some cop on. Getting 2 4 or even 6 points I can see, but 10 and not copping on? Makes no sense. To the OP I can understand you wanting to help, but I wouldn't risk you and your brothers neck over this. It could turn out very nasty.

Seth Brundle

Like wibbs and others, I exceed the many of our speed limits depending on the circumstances. I too currently have no points (I have passed several speed traps - I'm just lucky!)
Bear in mind that there wouldn't be too many people in this country with 10 points and another two due soon. It wouldn't be difficult for an astute petrolhead garda who reads this thread to put two and two together and end up earning brownie points from their superiors for making an example out of two siblings.

GTC

Don't put your name down. You will be caught out. I'll be keeping an eye out for this lad. Not for browning points. A driver that stupid deserves to lose a license. No offence to the OP himself.

And yes, we take license numbers in each case. If you falsify, the prosecuting garda will recognise the difference and throw the book at you. I would

Henry Ford III

It's hard to have any sympathy tbh.

Wossack

GTC wrote:

Don't put your name down. You will be caught out. I'll be keeping an eye out for this lad. Not for browning points. A driver that stupid deserves to lose a license. No offence to the OP himself.

And yes, we take license numbers in each case. If you falsify, the prosecuting garda will recognise the difference and throw the book at you. I would

doh - the long arm of the law finally reaches into the interweb

noones safe!

Zambia

These sort of swaps are known to police north and south and yes the Garda would have noted his details. If this was a speed camera you may be safe enough.

But its not and your not.

10 Pionts .. in 2 years ... ffs that's just careless. Always be watching the road it avoids accidents and helps you spot cops.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Your brother seems to be a bit thick - he didn't learn his lesson getting to 10 points, so he'll hardly learn anything by you taking the rap for him this time. You keep saying he is no boy racer but he does seem to be a committed speeder. I covered 90,000miles in the last 3 years without any points. I drive to the limit and adjust for road conditions and get where I want to be on time. It's time your brother had a long hard think about how he gets from A to B.

dak

Wossack wrote:

doh - the long arm of the law finally reaches into the interweb

noones safe!

I assume GTC is short for Garda Traffic Corps

Wossack

dak wrote:

I assume GTC is short for Garda Traffic Corps

hmm hadnt thought of that, the AGS stands for 'An gardai siochana' though

dak

As previous replies to your post have said already he should have been more careful especially when nearing the points limit. Any suggestion of doing something illegal on your part is both wrong and immoral and I wouldn'd go there if I was you. It looks like its too late now for your brother to start watching and changing his driving habits. I hate to see anyone losing their job over points so hopefully if it goes to court he will get a judge who is lienient .

rowanh

dak wrote:

Any suggestion of doing something illegal on your part is both wrong and immoral

:rolleyes:

Eoin

testicle wrote:

Those high horse riders are quite welcome to post in this thread

Exactly how much of a muppet does a person have to be, before telling them they're a muppet isn't considered being on a "high horse"?

Kimbot

dak wrote:

I hate to see anyone losing their job over points so hopefully if it goes to court he will get a judge who is lienient .

12 points = Automatic Disqualification so it doesn't matter about a judge. If one person got away with it becuae of their job then everyone else would have similar grounds to complain!

GTC

Wossack wrote:

doh - the long arm of the law finally reaches into the interweb

noones safe!

TBH, I don't think PULSE is interweb-friendly!!

This is all from a different PC outside work.

The guards and the web. What makes you think the DOJELR is anywhere near that sort of technological wizardry. :rolleyes:

dak

rowanh wrote:

:rolleyes:

Why the sarcasm ? That is my opinion which you edited to now read out of context........ a crime is not committed until it is takes place . You can't be arrested for thinking of something illegal , only if you carry it out !!

Tony Danza

If 2 points are coming off in January, and he gets a fine now, say pays it within the time limit (what is it 28/30 days or something?) doesn't it take a few months before you get notification of your points? So if 2 go off in January he might not get these 2 until February let's say? So maybe he will get to keep his license but he should definately see this as a wake up call (again), if he doesn't get banned.

Thomas

Guys, I appreciate all the advice, when it's your little bro though it's hard not to feel sorry for him when it's his livelihood at stake even if it's his own fault.

If he was put off the road in the next month or so and the points drop off in January, is he allowed back driving in January or is it a minimum 6 months?

I heard that while banned, all points are 'suspended' i.e. the 3 year count in stopped while you're banned?

LegacyUser

Ah give him a break, I hope he gets ok...I doubt he is a bad kid...he just is young and busy. Careless? Maybe but I would try take the hit for him if you ask me...I'm sure it would be fine

axer

dak wrote:

a crime is not committed until it is takes place . You can't be arrested for thinking of something illegal , only if you carry it out !!

Can't you be arrested and jailed for things like conspiracy to commit fraud? Im not 100% sure though.

dak

axer wrote:

Can't you be arrested and jailed for things like conspiracy to commit fraud? Im not 100% sure though.

Maybe if you write down your plan you could.....I was refering only to the thought of doing something illegal ........like driving at reckless speed. Maybe you could post the question in the Legal discussion part of boards

Seth Brundle

dak wrote:

I assume GTC is short for Garda Traffic Corps

I believe that to be the case...

Wossack wrote:

hmm hadnt thought of that, the AGS stands for 'An gardai siochana' though

...and that!

GTC wrote:

What makes you think the DOJELR is anywhere near that sort of technological wizardry. :rolleyes:

What makes you think that the Dept is anywhere near Justice, Equality or Law Reform?

cheesedude wrote:

Ah give him a break, I hope he gets ok...I doubt he is a bad kid...he just is young and busy. Careless? Maybe but I would try take the hit for him if you ask me...I'm sure it would be fine

Thats crap. The guy is an idiot. You don't know how young/old or how busy/idle they are.
He had 10 points and instead of thinking "Id better be careful as one mistake and Im off the road", he decides to keep the foot down the same as before. When the inevitable happens then he asks his brother to take the hit!

As was said before, the brother was pulled over by a garda who in all probability took the licence number. Still he asks his brother to take the hit. How would they explain that to the judge when brought up for trying to pervert the course of justice?

mikemac

This guy will probably lose his job if he loses his licence.
So he does more milage than most drivers and is in some capacity, a professional driver.

For that reason he deserves no sympathy.
This isn't some inexperienced learner or an elderly driver clocking points as they make innocent mistakes.
This guy knows better and that means no excuse.

Ah well, OP tell your brother to start looking for an office based job. That's my advice

unkel

Wibbs wrote:

Getting 2 4 or even 6 points I can see, but 10 and not copping on? Makes no sense.

Sums it up nicely

John R

I am not going to pass judgement on the bad driving to get 12 penalty points as it is possible (but not very likely) to accumalate them all in speed traps where the safe speed far exceeds the legal speed. However the stupidity of driving above the limit at all with his head in the penalty point guillotine is unquestionable and he deserves the ban just for that.

Risking the consequences of being found out lying to the courts is even more stupid. If you do that and get caught then you really will be regretting your brother's lead foot.

The way I see it you have two legal options.

1. Leave it till near the 56 day period is up, pay the higher (€120) fixed penalty and hope they are very slow with issuing the extra points and 6 month ban. Even if this is a very recent notice you would be hoping on them taking more than 2 months to process it.

2. Don't pay the fixed notice and let it go to court, it will take the 56 days plus the time to process the summons for a court date and may well not go to court until early next year. He will most likely get 4 points and a large fine (max is €800 AFAIR) but if the date is after 4 of his current points expire he would escape a ban.

Talk to a solicitor, there may be a way to postpone a court appearance long enough to allow enough points to expire.

John R

Thomas wrote:

Guys, I appreciate all the advice, when it's your little bro though it's hard not to feel sorry for him when it's his livelihood at stake even if it's his own fault.

If he was put off the road in the next month or so and the points drop off in January, is he allowed back driving in January or is it a minimum 6 months?

It is a fixed 6 month ban once 12 points are won within the period

Thomas wrote:

I heard that while banned, all points are 'suspended' i.e. the 3 year count in stopped while you're banned?

Does it matter? I mean it's not like he is stupid enough to drive in a manner likely to get more points just after getting his licence back with the possibility of losing it again. :rolleyes:

Just had a look at the statistics, as of June 07 there are 99 people who have gotten 12 points, maybe if he is really lucky he can be the 100th. There might even be a prize in it, 10% off a bus pass perhaps?

tbh

Imagine you took the hit for him, allowing him to stay on the road. He's not likely to change his driving habits, seeing as 10 points hasn't changed his habits. Now imagine he's speeding, and he hits another car or a bollard, killing himself or anyone else. How could you live with yourself, knowing that you broke the law to keep him on the road? If he's caught speeding with 10 points, I believe that the above scenario is a reasonable possibility. Nobody is victimising him, although I understand why you have sympathy. He needs to be taken off the road for his own good, and the safety of others.

want2play

GTC wrote:

I'll be keeping an eye out for this lad. .

A Guard "keeping an eye out" isn't that an offical Guardai responce to a complaint

OP, you can take it your brother wont be kept an eye on so

godtabh

want2play wrote:

A Guard "keeping an eye out" isn't that an offical Guardai responce to a complaint

OP, you can take it your brother wont be kept an eye on so

And you can say that for certain?

OP I hope your brother is put of the roads. Its the likes of him why there are road deaths nearly every day of the week.

Driving is a privilege not a right

I read some time back that a lot of drivers who clocked up 12 points and got the ban have continued driving cos its up to them to surrender their licence. Dont know if this is true or not. Im not suggesting that the op's brother should do his though just making the point.

jimmycrackcorm

If it was up to me I'd take the points for my brother though in the end despite what I posted earlier. Blood is thicker than the hard disk cylinder that stores his record.

johncm

lads i also need my car for my job. am on the road 4 or 5 days a week and i cant understand why or how someone can get 12 pointsif they need there car that much. If you had any cop on after 6 you would slow down and remember the company wont give you anything extra at the end of the day for getting from one place to another in a super quick time.

Seth Brundle

want2play wrote:

GTC wrote:

I'll be keeping an eye out for this lad.

A Guard "keeping an eye out" isn't that an offical Guardai responce to a complaint

OP, you can take it your brother wont be kept an eye on so

GTC is in the Garda Traffic Corps - they are a different breed from normal gardai - they are kinda like the terminator!

Steve

GTC is one of the few posters that actually talk sense on this forum - I hope that if I ever get stopped by a guard, its this guy.