Lexus GS300 versus BMW 5 series

Eoin

Hi all,

I'm looking at the two of these cars, if I'm able to sell mine privately.

I've decided on an auto box, and a nice "cruiser" - but would still prefer to have a little bit of handling, so I'm sort of leaning towards the BMW.

My budget will probably be somewhere from 10-12K. That's unlikely to get me a 5 series with the M-pack, and I'm not mad on it without the kit. That money would get me the GS300 sport though, and I think that's a smart looking car. I don't think there's a huge amount of difference between the MPG figures in the 525/5, 528, 530 engines, so happy to go for any of them (though 530d would be the ideal one).

I know the answer is to test drive one, but has anyone experience in the GS300 - is the driver very disconnected from the drive? Edit: also, does it come with cruise control, air con and all that type of stuff?

Would anyone else find it a tough choice?

thanks,

Eoin

bazz26

The E39 5 Series is pretty much known to be the best handling car in it's class at the time.

The GS300 is a good car and has lots of toys but cannot match the E39.

Here is a nice 528i:
http://www.carzone.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=789718
or a cheaper but older and higher mileage one:
http://www.carzone.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=767514

Or how about a 523i:
http://www.carzone.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=566960

Eoin

bazz26 wrote:

The E39 5 Series is pretty much known to be the best handling car in it's class at the time.

The GS300 is a good car and has lots of toys but cannot match the E39.

Here is a nice 528i:
http://www.carzone.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=789718
or a cheaper but older and higher mileage one:
http://www.carzone.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=767514

Or how about a 523i:
http://www.carzone.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=566960

Thanks for that Bazz, some very good finds there, think I was only searching for trade sales and missed those.

So, there is that much of a difference between the two? I drove an LS400 a few years ago, and it was too relaxing - just like pointing a sofa down the road. I was hoping that the GS sport may be more involving.

commited

Why don't you just go and test drive both and pick your favourite?

Also, 12k should get you a 528i Sport if you're willing to go to the UK to get it.

bazz26

eoin_s wrote:

Thanks for that Bazz, some very good finds there, think I was only searching for trade sales and missed those.

So, there is that much of a difference between the two? I drove an LS400 a few years ago, and it was too relaxing - just like pointing a sofa down the road. I was hoping that the GS sport may be more involving.

Don't know to be honest as I have never driven one. I would image the GS300 would be more barge like than the 5 Series. It definately looks more bulky than the 5.

This one looks nice but you might be mistaken for a drug dealer :
http://www.carzone.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=650755

Probably best as they say to drive one and see for yourself though.

Seth Brundle

If you look at the interiors of the two, the BMW looks far superior and less plasticy that the Lexus.

E92

That S reg 5 series looks fantastic to my eyes. If the number plates were removed, it would look like a brand spanking new car.

The Beemer is far superior looking both internally and externally to the Lexus. It has the advantage of being available in smaller capacity engines, is easier to buy and sell, is a dream over the bumps, is fantastically quiet even at 150 km/h(I've been in an E39 in Germany at that speed and(a good bit) more).

I cant say what the Lexus is like in terms of to drive, I haven't been for a spin in one either, but my gut instinct says that as it is a car designed primarily for the American market(ever been to America and noticed how many Lexus's are there?), it won't be any fun through the bends, and on viewing impressions, the Lexus is a very distant second IMHO.

The BMW is as mentioned previously highly regarded as being a great car to drive(I suppose you could say that not for nothing do BMW use the slogan 'The Ultimate Driving Machine'), the motoring press will fall head over heals about the E39 cause they love it so much. What Car? once said that the biggest problem about the E39 was trying to replace it because it was that good.

Eoin

Think it's a bit of a non-contest at this stage! Thanks all for the replies, some lovely looking examples out there. If I could get a 523 or bigger with M-Tech kit, I would be thrilled.

cantdecide

My dad has a 00 GS300 sport and it's pretty cool. Dash is dull but seats are class. E39s are brilliant but they're everywhere.

unkel

eoin_s wrote:

I drove an LS400 a few years ago, and it was too relaxing - just like pointing a sofa down the road

Harsh but true. A Lexus buyer just wants comfort and reliability and he or she will get a great sound system and an excellent dealer network too. Transport from A to B. And that's all folks!

Eoin

unkel wrote:

That's a harsh comment. A Lexus buyer just wants comfort and reliability and he or she will get a great sound system and an excellent dealer network too. From A to B in comfort without breaking down. And that's all folks!

I don't think it's harsh at all, it wasn't an involving drive and I didn't expect one. As you pretty much said, a sofa on wheels is what that average buyer wants. It's nowhere near a slight on the car, just not what I want.

The IS200 is more of a driver's car, and I was thinking that the GS300 may fit somewhere in between, but it's probably closer to the LS than the IS.

Edit: looks like I got in before your edit!

Bmw530

I have a bmw 530d and had a lexus is200 before and i find the bmw much better to run and is a fast car dont let the deisel put you off the only let down is the turbo timing takes a while to get used to if you drive a petrol car but no regrets with the bmw

Eoin

Bmw530 wrote:

I have a bmw 530d and had a lexus is200 before and i find the bmw much better to run and is a fast car dont let the deisel put you off the only let down is the turbo timing takes a while to get used to if you drive a petrol car but no regrets with the bmw

Diesel would not be a problem at all - my current car is a 320d. The 530d is just that bit more expensive, and I'm not doing the mileage to justify the higher purchase cost.

E92

Well that will be a problemfor the OP; a 320d averages 49.6 mpg AFAIR, and any of the Petrol E39s will average around 30 mpg(pre 00) or 32 mpg(post 00). That said the 530d averages around 39 mpg, so it won't be as miserly with fuel as the 320d is either.

Anyway, the OP can look forward to treating himself to those gorgeous sounding straight 6 petrols, give them the boot and they will reward aurally(though not financially):D .

Eoin

E92 wrote:

Well that will be a problemfor the OP; a 320d averages 49.6 mpg AFAIR, and any of the Petrol E39s will average around 30 mpg(pre 00) or 32 mpg(post 00). That said the 530d averages around 39 mpg, so it won't be as miserly with fuel as the 320d is either.

Anyway, the OP can look forward to treating himself to those gorgeous sounding straight 6 petrols, give them the boot and they will reward aurally(though not financially):D .

Ah yeah, I know it's going to be a thirsty car - but my commute is half what it was when I got the 320d. I'll be commuting even less next year, so I'm happy enough to take the hit.

richie_rvf

That S reg 5 is a great colour, but, it has the basic stereo, no m-tech kit apart from the steering wheel and those are not M5 wheels - too many question marks for me.

A mate of mine has a couple of those GS300, he loves them, they sound great but are pig ugly IMO and I feel like I am going to fall out of them on corners.

There is just too much plastic inside and the leather is very thin and ends up very shiny.

I am on my second E39 and could not reccommend them enough, just fantastic cars to drive.

Just my opinion!!

Richie.

Eoin

richie_rvf wrote:

That S reg 5 is a great colour, but, it has the basic stereo, no m-tech kit apart from the steering wheel and those are not M5 wheels - too many question marks for me.

A mate of mine has a couple of those GS300, he loves them, they sound great but are pig ugly IMO and I feel like I am going to fall out of them on corners.

There is just too much plastic inside and the leather is very thin and ends up very shiny.

Thanks for the comments Richie - it's definitely the e39 for me at this stage, I noticed the same things about the dark gray one though. I am really not as keen on the car in non-mtech guise, so that's what I'm holding out for. I'm going to have LOTS of time to find one given how hard it can be to sell privately.

richie_rvf wrote:

I am on my second E39 and could not reccommend them enough, just fantastic cars to drive.

Yeah, but your current E39 is a little more special than a 523!

richie_rvf

eoin_s wrote:

Yeah, but your current E39 is a little more special than a 523!

true but I loved my 520i sport every bit as much - almost

Actually, now that I think of it, would you consider an Alpina B10? plenty of 6 cyl models out there;

http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/sales/166000.htm

Fantastic cars!!

Eoin

richie_rvf wrote:

true but I loved my 520i sport every bit as much - almost

Actually, now that I think of it, would you consider an Alpina B10? plenty of 6 cyl models out there;

http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/sales/166000.htm

Fantastic cars!!

It's lovely, but way out of my price range, and my broker is unlikely to cover it. I'd be happy enough with the 523/5/8 for the time being.

richie_rvf

I posted a link to that car as an example, there are B10's out there for half that and 99% of them will have an excellent history and maybe even an extended warranty.

Check your insurance first - don't want to get your heart set on a car and then find out the insurance is through the roof.

Best of luck with your hunt!!

Richie.

lafors

bazz26 wrote:

The E39 5 Series is pretty much known to be the best handling car in it's class at the time.

The GS300 is a good car and has lots of toys but cannot match the E39.

Here is a nice 528i:
http://www.carzone.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=789718

Hibernian quoted me €1690 for insurance on a 528i, though thats what I get for being a lazy git and not sitting my test until a couple of years ago
(Details: 28yrs old, 2 years full driving license, 7 years provisional, no penalty points, no claims ever (never even scratched my car....touch wood)).

I was looking at something like this for my next car with a similar budget to the OP. One question though, any idea how much mileage you'd get out of these before it'd not be worth having anymore?

Eoin

richie_rvf wrote:

I posted a link to that car as an example, there are B10's out there for half that and 99% of them will have an excellent history and maybe even an extended warranty.

Check your insurance first - don't want to get your heart set on a car and then find out the insurance is through the roof.

Best of luck with your hunt!!

Richie.

Thanks again Richie, I'll definitely keep my options open, but my group insurance scheme is quite conservative. They wouldn't renew my policy on a 330D, but don't mind a GS300.

I still have to sell mine though, and experience has taught me that it can be a very long process, unless you price it very low - which I'm not prepared to do. I'd sooner just keep it, rather than give someone else a bargain for all the work that's been done to it.

unkel

eoin_s wrote:

I'd be happy enough with the 523/5/8 for the time being.

Would you consider a V8? A good one can easily be had within your budget. About the same price or even less than a same year / condition 528, but usually loaded with goodies. Tax is expensive at €1343 - but this is small in the overall costs of owning a car. If you don't do a high mileage, it might be worth considering

Anyway, test drive one!

eoin_s wrote:

Edit: looks like I got in before your edit!

Indeed!

Eoin

unkel wrote:

Would you consider a V8? A good one can easily be had within your budget. About the same price or even less than a same year / condition 528, but usually loaded with goodies. Tax is expensive at €1343 - but this is small in the overall costs of owning a car. If you don't do a high mileage, it might be worth considering

Anyway, test drive one!

I drove my mates 523, and while not as sharp as my 320d, the sound of the engine was really nice. My car is lowered though, and an M-Tech 5 series will also be, so it should be a bit crisper.

I won't rule out a 540, once the running costs aren't crazy. I don't know whether I should be concerned about the road tax - at the moment, it would be manageable, but I don't know how long it will be before > 3 litre cars are shafted even more.

unkel

eoin_s wrote:

I won't rule out a 540, once the running costs aren't crazy

The M62 V8 petrol engine is very reliable and built to last. "Lazy V8" petrol engines have an easy life generally anyway

eoin_s wrote:

I don't know how long it will be before > 3 litre cars are shafted even more.

None of us know. If I were in charge, I'd increase fuel excise by €0.50 a litre tomorrow

Eoin

unkel wrote:

The M62 V8 petrol engine is very reliable and built to last. "Lazy V8" petrol engines have an easy life generally anyway

That's good to know, though I was really thinking about how thirsty it may be - it seems to be the difference between 23 and 27 MPG on the 540 and 525 respectively. Could be harder to sell on, and knowing how fickle I am, that may could be a problem.

Anyway, as I've said, I'll see how I get on with my sale first - I've learnt there's no point getting too excited quickly as I'll just end up getting frustrated and dropping my price too much. I'm not in a mad rush, so will keep all options open.

unkel

eoin_s wrote:

it seems to be the difference between 23 and 27 MPG on the 540 and 525 respectively

Probably something like that. Greater difference than that around town, smaller difference on the open road

eoin_s wrote:

Could be harder to sell on

It'll be nigh impossible to sell on

eoin_s wrote:

I'll see how I get on with my sale first

Indeed. BTW your 320d looks super. From all the ones on carzone, it's the one I'd be keenest to get. G'luck with the sale!

commited

E92 wrote:

That S reg 5 series looks fantastic to my eyes. If the number plates were removed, it would look like a brand spanking new car.

I agree it's a lovely looking car - but it isnt actually a sport model - no mtec kit, interior is standar SE affair and the wheels look like M5 replicas.

E92 wrote:

Well that will be a problemfor the OP; a 320d averages 49.6 mpg AFAIR, and any of the Petrol E39s will average around 30 mpg(pre 00) or 32 mpg(post 00). That said the 530d averages around 39 mpg, so it won't be as miserly with fuel as the 320d is either.

I average 44mpg in my 530d. Can get 53mpg on a run.


OP, would you consider buying your car in the UK? Every car I've bought has come from the UK, and it's always been a pleasant experience. It also makes depreciation slightly less painful if you buy carefully

E92

commited wrote:

I agree it's a lovely looking car - but it isnt actually a sport model - no mtec kit, interior is standar SE affair and the wheels look like M5 replicas.


I average 44mpg in my 530d. Can get 53mpg on a run.


OP, would you consider buying your car in the UK? Every car I've bought has come from the UK, and it's always been a pleasant experience. It also makes depreciation slightly less painful if you buy carefully

My average mpg figures are the EU ones. They are just a rough guide, and are there for comparison purposes. They can be and often are totally irrelevant to the actual mpg a car does(because the EU ones are done in a lab, on a rolling track, at a set temperature, driven a specific way etc).

As for buying from the UK, I can't recommend it highly enough. They are usually a bit cheaper(the UK suffers from the worst depreciation in Europe, much worse than ours), the cars themselves will have been on far better road networks usually, and the Brits are much more into their cars than we are in general, so they look after them a lot better too. They are also of a much higher spec, and finding high performance models in a range like the Alpina B10 or 540i are much easier because of the simple fact that there are 15 times as many people living in the UK as there are here.

The only thing against UK cars is the fact that the speedos will be in mph even after 05, which is kind of silly for here, but hardly that much of an inconvience as mph speedos show km/h anyway. And have a good look at the underside of a UK car, apparantly when they resurface roads in the UK they use I think it is salt but I'm not at all sure, either way it is a substance that is corrosive to the underside of a car, and it is not used here.

commited

I believe the problem with the salt is the fact that they use it to grit the roads in winter.

According to the County council guys I meet with through my job, we're using salt to grit the roads now too

commited

A few UK cars worth looking at:

http://atsearch.autotrader.co.uk/www/CARS_popup.jsp?searchform=&modelexact=1&lid=search_used_cars_full&photo=1&state=block&sort=3&hassearched=Y&make=BMW&min_pr=75&source=0&model=5+SERIES&max_pr=&miles=1500&agerange=3&mileage=&postcode=LL65+1YB&variant=sport&bodyid=0&trim=&fuelid=0&colour=&transmissionid=0&keywords=&ukcarsearch_full.x=38&ukcarsearch_full.y=17&ukcarsearch_full=SEARCH&start=6&distance=118&adcategory=CARS&channel=CARS&id=200736106783704
http://atsearch.autotrader.co.uk/www/CARS_popup.jsp?searchform=&modelexact=1&lid=search_used_cars_full&photo=1&state=block&sort=3&hassearched=Y&make=BMW&min_pr=75&source=0&model=5+SERIES&max_pr=&miles=1500&agerange=3&mileage=&postcode=LL65+1YB&variant=sport&bodyid=0&trim=&fuelid=0&colour=&transmissionid=0&keywords=&ukcarsearch_full.x=38&ukcarsearch_full.y=17&ukcarsearch_full=SEARCH&start=3&distance=144&adcategory=CARS&channel=CARS&id=200737294679654
http://atsearch.autotrader.co.uk/www/CARS_popup.jsp?searchform=&modelexact=1&lid=search_used_cars_full&photo=1&state=block&sort=3&hassearched=Y&make=BMW&min_pr=75&source=0&model=5+SERIES&max_pr=&miles=1500&agerange=3&mileage=&postcode=LL65+1YB&variant=sport&bodyid=0&trim=&fuelid=0&colour=&transmissionid=0&keywords=&ukcarsearch_full.x=38&ukcarsearch_full.y=17&ukcarsearch_full=SEARCH&start=5&distance=90&adcategory=CARS&channel=CARS&id=200737294866034
http://atsearch.autotrader.co.uk/www/CARS_popup.jsp?searchform=&modelexact=1&lid=search_used_cars_full&photo=1&state=block&sort=3&hassearched=Y&make=BMW&min_pr=75&source=0&model=5+SERIES&max_pr=&miles=1500&agerange=3&mileage=&postcode=LL65+1YB&variant=sport&bodyid=0&trim=&fuelid=0&colour=&transmissionid=0&keywords=&ukcarsearch_full.x=38&ukcarsearch_full.y=17&ukcarsearch_full=SEARCH&start=6&distance=170&adcategory=CARS&channel=CARS&id=200735293988317
http://atsearch.autotrader.co.uk/www/CARS_popup.jsp?searchform=&modelexact=1&lid=search_used_cars_full&photo=1&state=block&sort=3&hassearched=Y&make=BMW&min_pr=75&source=0&model=5+SERIES&max_pr=&miles=1500&agerange=3&mileage=&postcode=LL65+1YB&variant=sport&bodyid=0&trim=&fuelid=0&colour=&transmissionid=0&keywords=&ukcarsearch_full.x=38&ukcarsearch_full.y=17&ukcarsearch_full=SEARCH&start=1&distance=193&adcategory=CARS&channel=CARS&id=200736106795710
http://atsearch.autotrader.co.uk/www/CARS_popup.jsp?searchform=&modelexact=1&lid=search_used_cars_full&photo=1&state=block&sort=3&hassearched=Y&make=BMW&min_pr=75&source=0&model=5+SERIES&max_pr=&miles=1500&agerange=3&mileage=&postcode=LL65+1YB&variant=sport&bodyid=0&trim=&fuelid=0&colour=&transmissionid=0&keywords=&ukcarsearch_full.x=38&ukcarsearch_full.y=17&ukcarsearch_full=SEARCH&start=6&distance=233&adcategory=CARS&channel=CARS&id=200736106756815
http://atsearch.autotrader.co.uk/www/CARS_popup.jsp?searchform=&modelexact=1&lid=search_used_cars_full&photo=1&state=block&sort=3&hassearched=Y&make=BMW&min_pr=75&source=0&model=5+SERIES&max_pr=&miles=1500&agerange=3&mileage=&postcode=LL65+1YB&variant=sport&bodyid=0&trim=&fuelid=0&colour=&transmissionid=0&keywords=&ukcarsearch_full.x=38&ukcarsearch_full.y=17&ukcarsearch_full=SEARCH&start=1&distance=170&adcategory=CARS&channel=CARS&id=200738294903457

There are loads more in there

Just to throw a spanner in the works, considered a Jag s-type sport?

Eoin

unkel wrote:

BTW your 320d looks super. From all the ones on carzone, it's the one I'd be keenest to get. G'luck with the sale!

Thanks a million! I put a good bit of cash into it, and the sensible thing is to keep it, but unfortunately I like to change cars quite a lot. Which makes the 540 a bad prospect!

@commited and E92, buying in the UK is not a problem for me at all, if I can arrange the time. Again, can't do it till I sell my car. If it takes too long, I may just see if I can get a good trade in, but I would hope to break even on the whole deal.

The jag would probably be a lot of car for the money, but not really my type of thing (yet). Give me a few years though, and who knows!

commited, thanks for the links - some excellent examples there.