Side Splits

expediateclimb

Can anyone recommend a good training technique for acquiring the side splits.
At the moment I can only get to about a 30deg angle from the floor, any lower and the pain gets pretty intense. I know being able to do the splits is handy for those high kicks so anyone got any tips.

Im hearing a lot about isometric stretching, how do you go about it?

Pride Fighter

I find that the best way to kick high is to kick high. Kick a bag as high as you can consitently and that will improve your kicking. I was considering getting a stretching machine, they cost 2-300 euro for a good one with a complete book of stretches with it.

Black Swan

Get a stretching partner. Take turns, one against the wall, while the partner raises your extended leg from the floor.

Be certain to stretch before and after workouts and sparring.

Get in the habit of stretching at home when doing something else. For example, right now I am on the carpet in a stretch while my laptop sits before me on a low table. It's a pain when you first begin, but after awhile it becomes habit and you forget you are doing it.

I think stretching machines are a waste of money. They eventually end up under your bed or in storage not being used.

Clive

To be honest, the splits has very little effect on whether you can kick high or not.

If you want to pursue it as a goal in and of itself, then just work into the position gradually. You shouldn't feel any pain whatsoever.

yomchi

Clive wrote:

To be honest, the splits has very little effect on whether you can kick high or not.

If you want to pursue it as a goal in and of itself, then just work into the position gradually. You shouldn't feel any pain whatsoever.

Good advice right there!

Side Splits have f' all to do with kicking high, fast and hard. Not everyoe's hips are designed to achieve side splits either.

If you want to kick hard and high, take up a dynamic stretching routine and stick to it for at least 8 weeks.
Forget about wanting to achieve splits, it's a distraction from achieving functional kicking.

Take a look at www.stadion.com for some help.

But if you want to be a good kicker, then kick! and keep kicking until you get your desired result.

nij

Some people call side splits 'front splits' and vice versa.

Kicking high with power and control is more about developing the corresponding anti-grav muscles. I know a gymnast who of course can do a complete split in every direction, and I asked her to show me a martial arts side kick (thinking I'd see something Van Damme-like) - she couldn't do it! She looked like a complete beginner.

So, training is always activity-specific, and to kick with more ease, fluidity and flexibility, it's important to kick outside your comfort zone with each workout. I don't mean throw your leg around and pull a muscle, I just mean use your anti-gravity muscles until they are tired.

Also, don't stretch too hard before a workout. I find the only way to increase flexibility is consistency. Make sure you do a little bit every day (or a lot if you can take it).

It really does take years to get the splits, and you will plateau at about 150 degrees for a good while.

kmurray

Find yourself a copy of "Scientific Streching" by Thomas Kurtz (think i spelled that right) There was a series of articals in irish fighter going back a few years.
He does a lot of work in the area of dynamic v static streching.
For the internet savy a lot can be found by using google and a little patience.
I personally saw a marked difference in my kicking abilitys afer a few weeks not only increased height but easier to perform the technical aspects of the kicks.

cowzerp

nij wrote:

I know a gymnast who of course can do a complete split in every direction, and I asked her to show me a martial arts side kick (thinking I'd see something Van Damme-like) - she couldn't do it! She looked like a complete beginner.
.

Thats because she was a beginner. im sure she'd be a great gymnast though!

yomchi

kmurray wrote:

Find yourself a copy of "Scientific Streching" by Thomas Kurtz (think i spelled that right) There was a series of articals in irish fighter going back a few years.
He does a lot of work in the area of dynamic v static streching.
For the internet savy a lot can be found by using google and a little patience.
I personally saw a marked difference in my kicking abilitys afer a few weeks not only increased height but easier to perform the technical aspects of the kicks.

Stretching Scientifically! Its in the link I provided, an excellent book as well.

pma-ire

totally agree with clive and pride fighter!

most people don't even kick to the full limit of there current stretch let alone trying to increase that stretch only to under extend the leg even further

next time your training go into the splits position and look at the angle between your legs. thats the angle that you should be reaching when you kick!

high kicks have as much to do with body position and ballance that splits

nij

IMO the biggest factor is strength. A lot of really flexible people just aren't strong enough to lift the leg high enough and maintain the correct position.

Roper

nij wrote:

IMO the biggest factor is strength. A lot of really flexible people just aren't strong enough to lift the leg high enough and maintain the correct position.

Why would you need to maintain the correct position? Kicking is an explosive motion so some strength will be a benefit of course, but why maintain?

I know a lot of guys from TKD who'd be able to hold their leg up at head height or above, or do other similarly impressive solo feats. Most of them couldn't hurt you though. Then there were other guys who did very little stretching but kicked the bags and pads all night and they'd be able to kick the head off you!

I trained TKD with a polish lad, seemed very inflexible. If you did partner stretching with him he'd moan all the way through it, then stand up to spar you 2 minutes later and knock your head off your shoulders!

nij

Because correct form is a big part of executing a technique correctly, and you'll get the most out of it that way, speed and power-wise. Wouldn't it be better to be able to do a side kick or turning kick (roundhouse) without having to lean excessively downwards? Especially if you want to do more than one...

yomchi

Roper wrote:

I trained TKD with a polish lad, seemed very inflexible. If you did partner stretching with him he'd moan all the way through it, then stand up to spar you 2 minutes later and knock your head off your shoulders!

Good old Alex? What a kicker too.

Roper

nij wrote:

Because correct form is a big part of executing a technique correctly, and you'll get the most out of it that way, speed and power-wise. Wouldn't it be better to be able to do a side kick or turning kick (roundhouse) without having to lean excessively downwards? Especially if you want to do more than one...

Correct form is grand but what does correct form have to do with strength? What does leaning excessively downwards have to do with strength for that matter?

nij

Leaning excessively while doing a side kick is a symptom of lack of strength in the lower back, buttocks and all the anti-grav muscles necessary to perform the technique correctly.

I wish I could show you what I'm talking about. It's like when I got my gymnast friend to show me a side kick - she was leaning too much and almost facing away from the target.

Maybe a better example is a roundhouse/turning kick (not the 45 degree turning kick, but the full whack). Wouldn't it be better to be able to maintain a relatively upright position while kicking? Leaning downward and away too much would slow you down and force you to readjust every time.

Come on man... we've all seen this! Surely you know what I'm talking about!

DeletedPencil

nij wrote:

Leaning excessively while doing a side kick is a symptom of lack of strength in the lower back, buttocks and all the anti-grav muscles necessary to perform the technique correctly.

I'd agree with that.

Roper

nij wrote:

Leaning excessively while doing a side kick is a symptom of lack of strength in the lower back, buttocks and all the anti-grav muscles necessary to perform the technique correctly.

I wish I could show you what I'm talking about. It's like when I got my gymnast friend to show me a side kick - she was leaning too much and almost facing away from the target.

Maybe a better example is a roundhouse/turning kick (not the 45 degree turning kick, but the full whack). Wouldn't it be better to be able to maintain a relatively upright position while kicking? Leaning downward and away too much would slow you down and force you to readjust every time.

Come on man... we've all seen this! Surely you know what I'm talking about!

Strength is always positive, don't get me wrong and I agree that excessive leaning is bad, I just disagree that strength necessarilly has anything to do with good technique. To be fair though I think you're talking about a different "type" of kicking. ie. the ability to hold an extended kick in place.

I'm curious, what are "anti-grav muscles"? Cos I have a physiology book here and I ain't seeing them.:D

nij

They're the ones that let you float and fly around... what, you don't have those? lol

Yeah, I'm referring to those muscle that hurt after you've been holding your extended leg out in a side kick position. If those muscles are developed sufficiently, one will be able to kick with ease (as long as the requisite flexibility is there). It's not just for kicking slowly or holding out the leg though. You probably forget how hard it was when you first started that type of training, so you've probably developed much of that strength without knowing. Had you only stretched though, and never kicked, you wouldn't have developed your lateral anti-gravity muscles.

monkey tennis

nij wrote:

Yeah, I'm referring to those muscle that hurt after you've been holding your extended leg out in a side kick position

Bear in mind that there are two different major muscle types, and the type that are used for holding your leg out for several seconds are not the same type as those used for the fast twitch used in a kick. I.e. being able to hold your leg out is not going to make you kick harder. Plus, I'd say different groups of muscles are used to hold a leg out than to snap a leg up.

DeletedPencil

nij wrote:

If those muscles are developed sufficiently, one will be able to kick with ease (as long as the requisite flexibility is there). It's not just for kicking slowly or holding out the leg though.

Hmm..I think I know what you're getting at. I recall reading something in an article by Thomas Kurz on the subject of strength and flexibility, and it was about weak muscles inhibiting mobility. Is that closer to what you're talking about? Or are you simply talking about control?

Roper

monkey tennis wrote:

Bear in mind that there are two different major muscle types, and the type that are used for holding your leg out for several seconds are not the same type as those used for the fast twitch used in a kick. I.e. being able to hold your leg out is not going to make you kick harder. Plus, I'd say different groups of muscles are used to hold a leg out than to snap a leg up.

What he said. The flexors and hamstrings are primarily responsible for whipping the leg up on a round kick.I you want to hold it there the onus switches to the glutes and lower back.

I thik we're both right, in a way.But in another, more realistic way, I'm right.:D

nij

DeletedPencil wrote:

Hmm..I think I know what you're getting at. I recall reading something in an article by Thomas Kurz on the subject of strength and flexibility, and it was about weak muscles inhibiting mobility. Is that closer to what you're talking about? Or are you simply talking about control?

Maybe I am, but like I said before, you have to be strong to perform consecutive kicks, and there was much emphasis placed on that when I did TKD. If you have weak muscles, you'll have to put your leg straight down after the first kick, or start the leaning game.

Roper wrote:

What he said. The flexors and hamstrings are primarily responsible for whipping the leg up on a round kick.I you want to hold it there the onus switches to the glutes and lower back.

I thik we're both right, in a way.But in another, more realistic way, I'm right.

Ok, I'll agree with that, but I still think it's better to develop as much strength as possible if kicking is the name of your game.