New Toyota Avensis

E92

When is it coming? Will there still be a 1.6(I think I know the answer to that one:(), even though we'll be taxed on emissions and not engine size next year?

And lastly will there be run out models of the current one, like they did with the last one(Avensis Luna)?

My sudden burst of enthusiasm for this info comes from the fact that my old man wants to change his 05 Avensis for a new one next year, and I have reason to believe that the new model won't be around till the summer, and given that we do resgistration changes at the start of the year I think he should wait till 09 and get a new one then.

I'm trying to persuade him into buying a diesel model(since his current one is 2 years and 8 months old and already has 76,500 km(48,000 miles) on the clock:eek: ) and because we all know how much quicker a diesel is over a petrol, and then there is the much talked about VRT changes which will make a diesel no more expensive than a petrol presumably.

wingnut

E92 wrote:

and because we all know how much quicker a diesel is over a petrol, and then there is the much talked about VRT changes which will make a diesel no more expensive than a petrol presumably.

1. Diesels arn't always much quicker, in some cases they are slower. Depends on the engine.(on like for like dispacement)

2. Carbon dioxide emissions are directly proportional to fuel consumption, and as diesel cars use 30 to 40% less fuel, they emit 30 to 40% less carbon dioxide than petrol cars. (on like for like dispacement). That is if the gove go on CO2.

E92

In terms of 0-100 and top speed they're slower than a petrol, because they weigh more, in every other circumstance on the road they are a lot faster,using a like for like comparison obviously eg 2.0 Diesel Avensis has 126 bhp, 1.8 petrol has 129 bhp, but the diesel has 221 lb ft of torque and the petrol has 125 lb ft of torque.


And while diesels are around 30-40% better on mpg depending on model (2.0 D4D Avensis does 51.6 mpg as opposed to the 1.8 Avensis which does 39.2 mpg, so the diesel is 31.6% better on mpg), diesels produce 13% more CO2 emissions for the same amount of mpg than a petrol(by that I mean if a petrol and diesel both do 50 mpg, a diesel will have 13% higher CO2 emissions), which explains why the diesel produces 146 g/km of CO2, and the 1.8 produces 171 g/km of CO2, so the diesel produces only 14.6% less CO2 than the Petrol model, even though it is 31.6% more efficient on mpg.

maidhc

E92 wrote:

When is it coming? Will there still be a 1.6(I think I know the answer to that one:(), even though we'll be taxed on emissions and not engine size next year?

Personally I think they should fit the 1.4 D4D in the car. It is 90bhp, which was enough to cart along the Mk1 Avensis. It would be no ball of fire in a car like the avensis, but most cars sold are no quicker than it would be.

Tell him not to buy an Avensis though, and broaden his horizons. Far away hills sometimes are greener.

FGR

The 1.4 D-4-D is a fantastic little engine. I'm amazed that so few car companies provide the option of a small diesel engine.

bazz26

I would tell him wait until 2009 and wait for the new model. There is a new model on the horizon over the next 12 months or so despite what dealers are telling me (unsurprisingly).

Another rumour going around the Toyota Owner's club (that is all it is though) is that Toyota are developing a smaller capacity D-4D Cat diesel engine possibly 1.6 but more likely 1.8 with around 120bhp to either compliment the existing 2.0 litre or replace it altogether. Given that the existing 2.0 litre has 125bhp and 2.2 litre has 150/180bhp it makes sense that a new smaller capacity diesel engine with 120bhp will replace the 2.0 litre. I suppose we will have to wait and see what really happens.

Also on the petrol front apparently a new generation of dual VVTi engines will be launched, 1.6 litre with 122bhp (already available in the Auris) and 1.8 litre with around 137bhp.

bazz26

ForegoneReality wrote:

The 1.4 D-4-D is a fantastic little engine. I'm amazed that so few car companies provide the option of a small diesel engine.

They have:

Peugeot/Citroen/Ford/Mazda: 1.4 HDi/TDCi
Fiat/Opel: 1.3 Multi-jet
VW/Seat/Skoda: 1.4 TDi
Renault/Nissan: 1.5 dCi

E92

bazz26 wrote:

I would tell him wait until 2009 and wait for the new model. There is a new model on the horizon over the next 12 months or so despite what dealers are telling me (unsurprisingly).

Another rumour going around the Toyota Owner's club (that is all it is though) is that Toyota are developing a smaller capacity D-4D Cat diesel engine possibly 1.6 but more likely 1.8 with around 120bhp to either compliment the existing 2.0 litre or replace it altogether. Given that the existing 2.0 litre has 125bhp and 2.2 litre has 150/180bhp it makes sense that a new smaller capacity diesel engine with 120bhp will replace the 2.0 litre. I suppose we will have to wait and see what really happens.

Also on the petrol front apparently a new generation of dual VVTi engines will be launched, 1.6 litre with 122bhp (already available in the Auris) and 1.8 litre with around 137bhp.

Thanks for that Bazz, I had already told him most of what you just said, he loves his current Avensis, so he certainly wouldn't mind getting the current one at the start of 08, even though I think that that is financial suicide, and he now knows a brand new car is in the offing(he's been warned by me that if he asks his Toyota dealer if there is a new one on the way that he will be told a lie), and if you buy a car on the last day of december, its a year old already the next day. Then my mum wants to wait for the new model, but they still want a new car next year.

I'm going to make him buy a diesel anyway.(his current car which is just over 2 1/2 years old has 76,500 km(I think I'm right in saying that that is 48k mls, which is a lot for the age of the car) already, and he wouldn't say no to a paraffin stove, since he's driven the likes of the old Seat Toledo with the 110 bhp diesel, and is still raving about how must faster than a similar size petrol it is:D ).

Actually on the matter of the new Avensis, does anyone know if it will be as dull as the Auris/Corolla, or the current Avensis? I've heard rumours doing the rounds that it will look like an elongated Corolla, which makes me want to sleep everytime I see it, its so frickin boring, its the dullest looking car since the days when Volvos were designed with only a ruler.

And have we anymore info on the car itself other than the info bazz mentioned. I could see them offering a 1.6/1.8 litre diesel alright, there is a big gap at the moment between a 1.4 and a 2.0.

I'm glad the petrols are being updated, Toyota updating their petrol range seems to be as rare as the launch of a brand new Saab these days.

E92

Just to add, here are some details about the new Avensis

Toyota Owners Club wrote:

And I have some hot information that will keep us waiting for the 2008 version of the Avensis. I have a friend who works in Toyota design n he has spilt the beans about the all new 2008 Avensis. He couldn't reveal its final shape or either give me a glimpse of the picture but did say it’s going to rock the market. For starters the things that would change from the current model (like the T180) could be called T180-4xSport.


1. Keyless entry and start button like the Auris
2. Paddle shift gears in the high end range with cruise control and sports suspension
3. Advance colour displays for the Speedo n rev (like the new Ford Mondeo)
4. Sunroof as standard and parking sensors both front n rear with image displays
5. Built in camera in the font like the Verso and Distance tronic as optional & LED rear lights as optional
6. New stat nav system with all controls built into a Joystick. All your AC settings n tyre pressure monitor will be built into this MMI system.
7. And lastly a 4-wheel drive model would be available in the Estate version where the suspension can be altered according to the terrain with twin silencers which adds a sporty look and also throws in an additional 150 lb ft of Torque to the current 295 lb ft (400 Nm).

And of course a new shape and design.

I can’t wait for this new version which could be out sometime early next year. If i get hold of some pictures i will post them.

G Luxel

I'm considering buying an Avensis next year. Im thinking of the hatchback as it is a rarer sight on the road. Everyone buys the saloon which is available in many trims but there are only 3 versions of the hatchback, 2 aura and I Luna.
In the UK its the opposite, nearly every model sold is a hatch.....
Auto Express showed a picture last month of what looked more like the 07 corolla in masking tape. It was plain obvious that they had been using the wrong pictures...

E92

Because hatchbacks are much rarer than saloons they are much harder to shift on when the time comes to sell. The is also the matter of the hatchback being dearer as well to buy in the first place.

maidhc

E92 wrote:

Because hatchbacks are much rarer than saloons they are much harder to shift on when the time comes to sell. The is also the matter of the hatchback being dearer as well to buy in the first place.

A hatch is easier to shift I would imagine. You won't get your money back though.

It makes no sense to even sell an avensis (or mondeo) saloon. They are meant to be versatile workhorse family cars... they are not luxury cars, limos, or sports cars. You should be able to fit a TV or washing machine in the back!

bazz26

maidhc wrote:

A hatch is easier to shift I would imagine. You won't get your money back though.

It makes no sense to even sell an avensis (or mondeo) saloon. They are meant to be versatile workhorse family cars... they are not luxury cars, limos, or sports cars. You should be able to fit a TV or washing machine in the back!

The Passat hasn't been available in hatchback form for well over 15 years and it still manages to sell well. The Peugeot 405/406/407 are the same. On the other hand the Renault Laguna and Citroen Xantia/C5 have never had a saloon varient.

I looked at the Avensis hatchback when I was buying and it cost around €700 extra over the saloon. Not worth it imo especially when you will get €0 of that back when you go to sell it, while the saloon is no oil painting the hatchback just looks wrong to me. Also I didn't find the hatchback that more practical than the saloon, we've managed for the last 4.5 years with a saloon once you have a split folding rear seat.

Alot of hatchback varients of these cars are usually after thoughts and not the prettiest things imo. My opinion is that if you really need more versitility and practicality than a saloon then an estate or MPV version is more suitable.

Alot of European markets seem to be heading the same way where sales of D segment cars like Mondeo, Passat, Avensis, etc are falling and people are choosing crossover MPV/SUV vehicles instead. Look at the demise of the Primera (though a new one will be sold in countries like Ireland where D segment sales are still strong).

maidhc

bazz26 wrote:

Alot of hatchback varients of these cars are usually after thoughts and not the prettiest things imo. My opinion is that if you really need more versitility and practicality than a saloon then an estate or MPV version is more suitable.

I'd agree. I'd go for an estate before either were I in the market for such a car! Still.. the Octavia sells well... and the boot has something to do with it.

You can't fit a big TV or a washing machine into a saloon. I think for a family car this is a short coming. The Passat's boot, while large is quite useless for anything other than suitcases.

colm_mcm

G Luxel wrote:

I'm considering buying an Avensis next year. Im thinking of the hatchback as it is a rarer sight on the road. Everyone buys the saloon which is available in many trims but there are only 3 versions of the hatchback, 2 aura and I Luna.
In the UK its the opposite, nearly every model sold is a hatch.....
Auto Express showed a picture last month of what looked more like the 07 corolla in masking tape. It was plain obvious that they had been using the wrong pictures...

That was the Corolla Tourer they were testing.
Also Avensis Luna hatchback was discontinued last year IIRC.

unkel

maidhc wrote:

You can't fit a big TV or a washing machine into a saloon. I think for a family car this is a short coming. The Passat's boot, while large is quite useless for anything other than suitcases.

Agreed. The boot in my car (old 7-series) is bigger than the one in a Skoda Octavia, but not half as usable. TV / kitchen appliance / bike and the lid has to stay open. Not so in the Octavia

R.O.R

If he's looking for one early 2009 he might want to get an order in now as demand will probably outstrip supply considerably.

In 2003 I waited 13 months for a 5dr Avensis Diesel in a specific colour for a driver. Most Diesels were taking 4-5 months to come through at launch.

E92

R.O.R wrote:

If he's looking for one early 2009 he might want to get an order in now as demand will probably outstrip supply considerably.

In 2003 I waited 13 months for a 5dr Avensis Diesel in a specific colour for a driver. Most Diesels were taking 4-5 months to come through at launch.

Thanks for teling me that. Knowing him, what will happen is that he will go down to the dealer, and if they happen to have one he wants in stock, he'll take it(thats how he got his current car only 3 weeks after he ''ordered" it, he'd have had it sooner but if was before Christmas when the car was ordered and obviously he was not going to have a new car registered when the year was about to end ).

bazz26

E92 wrote:

Thanks for teling me that. Knowing him, what will happen is that he will go down to the dealer, and if they happen to have one he wants in stock, he'll take it(thats how he got his current car only 3 weeks after he ''ordered" it, he'd have had it sooner but if was before Christmas when the car was ordered and obviously he was not going to have a new car registered when the year was about to end ).

Took me about 3 weeks at the time, from order to delivery as it was 1.8 litre, most people were looking for 1.6 litre models which had a 12 week lead time. My alloy wheels on the other hand took a bit longer to get as they were OEM 17" on the UK spec model but not even an option on the Irish spec model.

what_car

it would be good if they did it in a diesel automatic..
or will honda get there first?


also it would be a good idea to the estate in other specs rather than just the bog basic spec!!

RobAMerc

Am I reading this correctly ?

Are people really getting excited about a replacement for a middle of the range bland dull plasticy repmobile before there are even official shots as to what it might look like ( in case its less dull ) or leaks about some innovative new technology it might bring to the market ?

ta2kev

The new Avensis - Due Sunner 2008

E92

Well at least we know Toyota will be sticking ture to form - creating something dull again. Actually it reminds me of a Lexus and a Honda Accord. Its better looking than the current car- but that wouldn't exactly be difficult- the current one is hardly an oil painting anyway.

That Avensis looks huge(as in even bigger than the Ford Mondeo)- I really hope there won't be a 1.6- the photos of the car above show a car that is car too big to handle a 1.6(unless its a diesel). If there is a 1.6, the VRT changes can't come soon enough.

maidhc

Those photos are years old. I suspect that was the GS300(h) when being developed.

bazz26

That is not the new Avensis, they have been going around the net for ages, it is a Camry or something similar.

@ RobAMerc,

With the utmost respect some people here might be interested in different cars and other aspects of motoring which may not be the same as yours. Motoring like everything else is a diversity where people have different likes/dislikes and of course opinions. Nothing wrong with that. I don't get excited when a new BMW, etc is launched as nothing about them appeals to me but will not spoil a thread about them either by people who are very interested in them. You have obviously made your opinons about Toyota very clear in previous posts, nothing wrong with that either, that's your choice. But if you don't like the topic of the thread then just move on to another, otherwise it just decends into another typical Alfa Romeo type thread.

E92

maidhc wrote:

Those photos are years old. I suspect that was the GS300(h) when being developed.

The more I look the more I realise you're right. The front is exactly the same as the current GS. Speaking of the GS, the GS Hybrid is less economical than a 530i(35.8 mpg for the 450h vs 37.7 mpg for the BMW):D , which just uses a good old fashioned petrol engine.

RobAMerc

bazz26 wrote:

That is not the new Avensis, they have been going around the net for ages, it is a Camry or something similar.

@ RobAMerc,

With the utmost respect some people here might be interested in different cars and other aspects of motoring which may not be the same as yours. Motoring like everything else is a diversity where people have different likes/dislikes and of course opinions. Nothing wrong with that. I don't get excited when a new BMW, etc is launched as nothing about them appeals to me but will not spoil a thread about them either by people who are very interested in them. You have obviously made your opinons about Toyota very clear in previous posts, nothing wrong with that either, that's your choice. But if you don't like the topic of the thread then just move on to another, otherwise it just decends into another typical Alfa Romeo type thread.

to be fair bazz you have a good point well made, I wont remove my post as I said what I said but you are correct - my tainted view of the brand should not detract from other peoples discussion of upcoming models.

bazz26

RobAMerc wrote:

to be fair bazz you have a good point well made, I wont remove my post as I said what I said but you are correct - my tainted view of the brand should not detract from other peoples discussion of upcoming models.

No problem Rob.:) Wanted to just make a point without turning it into a personal attack or flame. In fairness if everyone on here had the same opinion about every car it would be one boring forum.