Fliszt.

Doshea3

Anyone here agree with me that Liszt is underrated as a composer? I've thought this for a long time. Liszt's adventures into orchestral and choral music were not always terribly successful (though we can't forget the piano concertos and the Faust Symphony), but the man who gave us so much brilliant piano music can hardly be ignored. Liszt knew the piano better than anyone else, probably even Chopin, and so he wrote music which exploited all the resources of the modern piano (and indeed pianist). He's very often accused of being nothing but bombast and noise and severe difficulty, but surely even a quick dip into his music will show you his other facets, the ultra-Romantic, harmonic innovator, unsurpassed transcriber and gifted melodist. Or do you all think I'm mad?

(I'll give you my Liszt love-list later.)

Pianist2891

Liszt is really not underrated at all!! Judging by the concert calenders worldwide, which feature so much of his music (piano, orchestral) I think he's very popular. Personally, I don't care for the majority of his piano music but I do agree that he wrote damn well for the piano - its just down to personal taste - I tend to prefer Brahms and Chopin, and then on to Rachmaninov. Liszt that I really do like tends to be his song transcriptions of Schubert, and some of his years of pilgrimage, as well as the harmonies poetic and religious (which are a fantastic set of pieces).

Sibelius is underrated - especially his piano music!

Doshea3

I don't think Liszt is underrated generally, I think he's just underrated as a composer. For example, when do you see his name on a liszt of the ten greatest composers? Perhaps he doesn't deserve a place quite up there, but he deserves more recognition as a composer more than just a composer-pianist. I often think what Wagner achieved with the orchestra Liszt was achieving in tandem on a pianistic medium.

A liszt of things I particularly like:

Piano Sonata in B minor (good recordings by Brendel and Horowitz, though there are plenty of probably better ones floating around).

Hungarian Rhapsodies. Though some people describe these as being among Liszt's worst music, most of them are good fun. Nothing terribly inspiring in most of them, but some of them contain interesting harmonies (for example, No. 5, I think, superimposes a major and minor triad of the same keynote on one another).

Transcriptions and paraphrases. Great transcriptions of all sorts of things, as well as those great opera paraphrases (the Rigoletto Paraphrase is suitably famous).

Years of Pilgrimage. Some great pieces among them, like "Vallée d'Obermann", "Les jeux d'eau a la Villa d'Este" (from the third year, which is particularly interesting for its forward-looking harmonic ideas).

Piano Concertos. Really fun. Also, I particularly love the "Totentanz", the variations for piano and orchestra on the "Dies irae" motif.

Slow pieces like the Consolations. Lovely.

There you are. I'm sure there's plenty more that I could liszt.

banquo

Doshea3 wrote:

I'm sure there's plenty more that I could liszt.

Lol. It's like you know that that joke is coming, but there's no way to stop it. You just have to take it

Doshea, I'm putting you in charge of my initiation into the late romantic era.

Pianist2891

Has anyone read the Roald Dahl story about Liszt and the Cat? Its a creepy story from his tales of the unexpected..?

If you haven't read it, let me know and I will post a link or else post the story!!

tSubh Dearg

Pianist2891 wrote:

Has anyone read the Roald Dahl story about Liszt and the Cat? Its a creepy story from his tales of the unexpected..?

If you haven't read it, let me know and I will post a link or else post the story!!

I was just thinking about that story reading this thread!

Doshea, once was forgiveable, but the same pun twice in the same post, you're treading on thin ice!

Pianist2891

That story - I am always looking for an excuse to get people to read it. There is a cat outside my window...who is he?! Why is he here?

Moving back to Liszt, I will learn something by Liszt again soon...trouble with romantic repertoire for me is I keep slamming the book shut after reading through most of it, in favour of contemporary or baroque music. Ignorant behaviour really.

Liszt Consolations, does ANYONE ever play them these days?

Doshea3

LOL. That story really sounds interesting. I'd like to read it if you have it, Pianist2891.

tSubh—I believe you'll find I used that pun at least three times. Sorry, I couldn't resist it. I resisted it for my first post, but I just had to.

O Rob, you must invite me down to Maynooth some evening and I'll bring with me a stack of CDs of Liszt, Scriabin and many others. (I've already promised Kris I'll loan him my CD of Brendel playing Liszt's late works though!) Hint hint!

EDIT: Regarding the Consolations, they're not played very often anymore as far as I've seen, though I've heard some young students in the College of Music play No. 1. My favourites are the first three.

Pianist2891

I agree with the first three being the best. I too learnt them when I was too young to actually appreciate them. Same problem with Chopin, Schumann and Brahms...my teachers should have beaten me into playing Bach when I was a toddler, I'd be more into romantic repertoire now! But then again I love Rachmaninov, Scriabin, Prokofiev et all..!

The story is twisted!

Doshea3

The first three are certainly the best...I generally play 1 and 2 attacca as is written in most editions of the score. There exists also a nice organ arrangement of the D-flat one, No. 3 (MP3 file on request). 6 is also good, sort of melancholic in a way. Never really got very much into Prokofieff...heard some of the piano concertos, not particularly impressed on first couple of listenings, and I generally make up my mind by the second listening (which is sometimes seen in a totally different light to the first listening, as happened with me and Glenn Gould's Goldbergs). Some of the rest of the piano music is interesting to listen to...bloody difficult, though! Not tried playing any Prokofieff, though my teacher suggested I learn one of his sonatas (scary!). Love Scriabin and Rachmaninoff, though. Anyone know Horowitz's recording of Scriabin's 9th sonata (the "Black Mass")? Just listened to it again this morning...rollicking stuff.

The Mad Hatter

I don't know the story!

Anyhow, as to Liszt...I find him a bit of a mixed bag - some stuff, like the B minor sonata (Doshea3 - try Argerich or Pollini) I like quite a lot, but other pieces just leave me cold.

Pianist2891: I absolutely agree with you on Sibelius.

Doshea3

O, Bren, you've reminded me now. I've been meaning to buy Argerich's recording of the sonata for ages! Also, I've heard that there is a hair-raising live recording made by a young Vladimir Ashkenazy, but I've never come across it.

Pianist2891

Prokofiev is actually not all difficult...some of his visions fugitives for instance are much easier than the rach preludes or etudes tableaux..and compared to scriabin, definately less awkward piano writing.

My favourite sonatas are the 3rd and Seventh (prokofiev!). As for Scriabin, I always loved the 5th until I heard a pianist butcher it...the 3rd Scriabin sonata and the 9th are amazing and completely contrasting works.

Argerich, she always makes everything look and sound so damn easy!!

EDIT: Sibelius..everyone should learn some of his piano music at some point!

I am trying to track down that Dahl story! I keep getting distracted by....WORK! I must be the only insane person who works 12-14 hours a day and then posts on a message board.

The Mad Hatter

Pianist2891 wrote:

Prokofiev is actually not all difficult...some of his visions fugitives for instance are much easier than the rach preludes or etudes tableaux..and compared to scriabin, definately less awkward piano writing.

My favourite sonatas are the 3rd and Seventh (prokofiev!). As for Scriabin, I always loved the 5th until I heard a pianist butcher it...the 3rd Scriabin sonata and the 9th are amazing and completely contrasting works.

Argerich, she always makes everything look and sound so damn easy!!

EDIT: Sibelius..everyone should learn some of his piano music at some point!

I am trying to track down that Dahl story! I keep getting distracted by....WORK! I must be the only insane person who works 12-14 hours a day and then posts on a message board.

Nope. And I'm sick, too. *sneezes*

I appreciate it, by the way.

banquo

Gosh, we're all up very early today.

tSubh Dearg

The story is called "Edward the Conqueror" and is in Dahl's Tales of the Unexpected collection of stories.

I've not found an online version yet but that's not to say there isn't. This just shows how bored I am in work today.

Doshea3

Pianist2891: Have you any Prokofieff to recommend me in particular? Nothing horribly difficult yet lest I develop Prokofiephobia. I considered buying the Visions Fugitives before in Pigott's after a quick browse one day, though my lack of money got in the way.

Scriabin's 10th is another one I love.

My friend is a big Dahl fan, so I'm sure he has that story somewhere.

On the subject of Sibelius, I heard someone play his Romance for piano once. Fabulous!

Pianist2891

David I haven't heard you play so not sure what would suit you,esp musically, but I'll PM you with some recommendations!

I have that damn story here, figuring out best way to share it with everyone.

Sibelius Romance is fabulous indeed, as are his shorter piano pieces (they are also so infrequently played, if only anyone playing Chopin valses or Schumann could try Sibelius instead!! )