Pass de 2pair on de left hand side

fuzzbox

1/2 -6 max
Not much on villain. Earlier, utg open, the table calls, he calls in bb with 55, flop a set on twotone board, he chk, utg bet, theres a call and I shove with nfd and 2 overs, and he calls and wins. Not sure if that means much but w/e

There are a cpl of morons in the game.

Stacks - me 250
Villain - 650

Preflop
Moron A open limps, I make it 8 with Kh Jh, moron B calls, villain calls in blinds

Flop (33)
Kc Js 9d
Villain leads for 10, moron A folds, I make it 33, moron b folds, villain calls

Turn (99)
2h
villain checks, I bet 70 and villain minraises. ... now what?

Bandara

I would shove, you have about 110 in the pot already and the pot is now over 320 and there's a lot of hands you are ahead of.

Minraising seems to be the new fashion so I'm not sure how much it scares me, he's doing this with top pair decent kicker at lot of the time imo.

valor

all of it

cardshark202

Ugh horrible spot. I'm gonna say fold as much as I hate it

ianmc38

fold for me. this is qt liek always

pok3rplaya

cardshark202 wrote:

Ugh horrible spot. I'm gonna say fold as much as I hate it

+1

m83

ianmc38 wrote:

fold for me. this is qt liek always

How often are we finding a set here with 99 or JJ. I assume its almost never KK???

/n00b

fuzzbox

Results:
I folded. I couldnt imagine him doing this with J9 or K9, so surely I'm beat.

Theresalwaysone

I agree with Ian, its always q10 with this particular action, I do often find myself calling or raising the stupid min raise like a donk tho only to face a river shove.

NickyOD

I haven't read any of this thread. I just want to say that your thread titles are slipping badly.

insafehands

I don't know why you wouldn't at least call the min-raise in this situation?

fuzzbox

insafehands wrote:

I don't know why you wouldn't at least call the min-raise in this situation?

And then what? - after I call the 70, I have 85 or so left, in a 350 pot, and if he bets the 85 then I am offered 435:85 (~5:1) to call the river. So clearly, if I call the 70, I always have to call the last 85.

And why would you call?

insafehands

If this was the river, would you call?

With 85 left it means there's no room for him to bluff, as you are committed. Meaning if you have him beaten, he's likely to check. And you've got a lot of showdown value with TTP. Even if he bets, I still think the odds you're getting now and the odds you know you will get make this an easy call/call situation.

If you're behind, then you're ****ed obviously. But I think you're ahead more than 1 in 4 times here.

Also, he did call from the blinds as last person to act, which gives him quite a wide range (Q9, KQ inc.)

Even though I play much lower stakes then this, I don't think you can call this a clear fold. Stake sizes give this a bit more to think about.

Basically, from his turn bet you're getting better than 4 to 1 to continue the rest of the hand. And I think you're ahead more than 1 in 4 here.

Hectorjelly

insafehands wrote:

If this was the river, would you call?

With 85 left it means there's no room for him to bluff, as you are committed. Meaning if you have him beaten, he's likely to check. And you've got a lot of showdown value with TTP. Even if he bets, I still think the odds you're getting now and the odds you know you will get make this an easy call/call situation.

If you're behind, then you're ****ed obviously. But I think you're ahead more than 1 in 4 times here.

Also, he did call from the blinds as last person to act, which gives him quite a wide range (Q9, KQ inc.)

Even though I play much lower stakes then this, I don't think you can call this a clear fold. Stake sizes give this a bit more to think about.

Basically, from his turn bet you're getting better than 4 to 1 to continue the rest of the hand. And I think you're ahead more than 1 in 4 here.

Your making a crucial mistake, you arent really getting 4:1 since you are committed to calling the rest of your money on the river if you do call the turn bet.
You arent really getting 4:1

insafehands

Hectorjelly wrote:

Your making a crucial mistake, you arent really getting 4:1 since you are committed to calling the rest of your money on the river if you do call the turn bet.
You arent really getting 4:1

I'm not. My point was you'll be getting a minimum of 4:1 on the river (check, check).

If we need to call a bet of 85 (pot at that point would be 464), we'll be getting at least 5.45:1 (464/85).

Therefore, the minimum odds we can expect throughout the rest of the hand is 4:1 (well, bit over I think), but we're likely to get 5.45:1.

I think our current holding is worth pursuing those odds.

robinlacey

i don't think i could fold top two here unless its against someone i know to be a solid,winning player.

i agree that QT is quite likely,but its not impossible for villain to show up with QK,AK,pair and straight draw,or worse two pair.

also we have a house draw.

Hectorjelly

insafehands wrote:

I'm not. My point was you'll be getting a minimum of 4:1 on the river (check, check).

If we need to call a bet of 85 (pot at that point would be 464), we'll be getting at least 5.45:1 (464/85).

Therefore, the minimum odds we can expect throughout the rest of the hand is 4:1 (well, bit over I think), but we're likely to get 5.45:1.

I think our current holding is worth pursuing those odds.

yes you are, If we are behind, we will always have to call the other 85, and since the pot will be so big you cant fold. So the bet is actually 160 (or whatever is left) so we arent getting 4:1.

If you ever make a call or bet that commits you to further action you need to factor in the whole amount, not just the amount on any one street

Macspower

the diciplined line is to fold.... and prob the correct one... Q10 hits his range here perfectly....

If I did decide to continue with this hand I'm shoving now as I can never fold the river...