Corrib Gasline Protests

Wompa1

Did anybody head up the protests today?
Sorry I'll edit this since I'm being told I need to offer my opinion. My stance on the corrib is much like some of yours givin , the majority of the protestors do seem to be non-locals, I know a lad that was on the site and was talking to him yesterday and it got me pretty mad listening to his account of what happened.
There was an unhealthy mix of Dublin Skangers lookin to take shots at Gardai, alot of British nationals and the typical know it all college hippies. By his accounts and he was standing two feet away from them so he's a good source, it was not a peaceful protest and he said the Gardai were great on the day...I didn't want to really offer an opinion on it and just wanted to see other peoples opinions on the matter because I think I might have a bias against the types of people that do protest and me offering my opinion would just start a big never ending moaning on their parts. Was more hoping for other people to be like minded to myself and despise the small contingent of people that seemingly jump at the chance of having yet another self righteous bullsh!t crusade

mike65

....and?

Mike.

Wompa1

and.....you've got really pretty hair?

its pretty self explanatory, just wanted to see how many if any amongst the people that post on the political form went to the protests today

mike65

Yeah but its not much of a thread starter! Seriously the OP is supposed to contain some opinion about a story rather than ask a 'hanging' question.

For whats its worth I don't see what the beef is about, it feels like STS are re-heating arguments for the sake of it.

/off to indymedia to see what the fight teh power/crusties think.

Mike.

seamus

I wonder do they do it in shifts, or do they choose a different pointless protest each week - Tara last week, Corrib this week....?

There was a crusty on the RTE news pleading about non-violent protest. They were trying to force the gates open. Her argument was, "There are Gardai in there, and no cameras! We're trying to ensure that everyone's safe".

Yes, because the Gardai make a habit of randomly beating people when there are no cameras around :rolleyes:

FYI

Seamus/Mike,

Are you happy to live in a state of complete ambivalence?

Do you understand the implications of the Corrib Gas project?

I agree this is not the most constructive thread starter, but this is a very serious issue, nationally and globally speaking.

If you are happy to condense it to a single incident of protest and arrest then so be it, but be open to the fact that this instant is nought but a cursory glimpse of the whole picture.

If it's boredom that brought you to this position, then those that have been making the argument have failed, because this is one of the most interesting and complex issues to happen in Ireland in decades.

Please keep an open mind, it'll be worth it, whether you find it a round trip or land somewhere else.

Best wishes, FYI

silverharp

FYI wrote:

Do you understand the implications of the Corrib Gas project?

No, tell me.

mike65

Indeed another 'hanging' question!

Looking at the pix, it seems like the treatment plant foundations are well underway and simply will not be stopped, by government, the courts, or STS. The only matter up for discussion is which of several routes the pipeline takes.

Mike.

axer

FYI wrote:

Do you understand the implications of the Corrib Gas project?

I wanna know too!!!

Rock Climber

It reminds me of those folks up the tree's in the glen of the downs years ago.
Most of the protesters appear to be non locals.
That about says it all.

[Mod hat on] Thread starter;what other posters told you regarding how to start threads in this political discussion forum is true.We are here to discuss political issues and require threads to be started with that in mind.
Asking "did you go to this or that" does not conform to the requirements.

I'm leaving the thread open for now but please be wary of this in future.[/mod hat]

FYI

axer/silverharp,

There's healthy scepticism and then there's churlish cynicism.

If you find yourself the later group, then yours is a dull world.

If on the other hand you find yourself in the former group, the answer is out there on the world wide web. Lorna Siggins in the Irish Times might be a good place to start. And once you have uncovered the basics, try the Centre for Public Inquiry's report on the issue:

http://www.publicinquiry.ie/pdf/Fiosru_2_LOW_RES_Final.pdf

Time Magazine

FYI wrote:

And once you have uncovered the basics, try the Centre for Public Inquiry's report on the issue.

Translation:

FYI wrote:

And once you have read a single leftist Galway-based journalist on the issue, read a report by an organisation whose funding was withdrawn from its philanthropic donor.

I take Peter Cassells' views more seriously.

Regardless of your opinion on it, it's dead in the water. The courts, what this society needs for mediation, have decided it.

seamus

FYI wrote:

Do you understand the implications of the Corrib Gas project?

Yes. I understand that this country's court have decided on it, that the bulk of local people are now happy with the project and that thos constructing the pipeline have in fact attempted to appease the protesters by moving the pipe.
I also understand that almost all of the protesters are not from the local area, and many of them don't even live in Ireland.

RockClimber wrote:

It reminds me of those folks up the tree's in the glen of the downs years ago.

And now that roadway is one of the most beautiful routes in the country. We wouldn't have it now if they'd been allowed to continue protesting.
My main issue with environmental protesters is that they tend to just protest against any and all changes, regardless of the factual impact on the local area.

silverharp

Rock Climber wrote:

It reminds me of those folks up the tree's in the glen of the downs years ago.
Most of the protesters appear to be non locals.
That about says it all.

It always annoyed me when English "crusties" always ended up part of the mix being interviewed, no doubt being social welfare tourists to boot.

FYI

seamus wrote:

Yes. I understand that this country's court have decided on it, that the bulk of local people are now happy with the project and that thos constructing the pipeline have in fact attempted to appease the protesters by moving the pipe. I also understand that almost all of the protesters are not from the local area, and many of them don't even live in Ireland.

Well much of what you 'understand' is wrong I'm afraid.

Wompa1

FYI wrote:

Well much of what you 'understand' is wrong I'm afraid.

Well much of what you 'understand' is wrong I'm afraid:D

The influx in workers over the next few years is gonna generate a whole heap of money for alot of locals and towns int he surrounding areas. Granted some locals still don't like it but the majority do seem to.

Wompa1

mike65 wrote:

Indeed another 'hanging' question!

Looking at the pix, it seems like the treatment plant foundations are well underway and simply will not be stopped, by government, the courts, or STS. The only matter up for discussion is which of several routes the pipeline takes.

Mike.

Could you post a link or tell me where you saw the pictures that show that? All Ive seen are pictures of a load of gardai and a few trucks

FYI

Wompa1 wrote:

Well much of what you 'understand' is wrong I'm afraid:D

The influx in workers over the next few years is gonna generate a whole heap of money for alot of locals and towns int he surrounding areas. Granted some locals still don't like it but the majority do seem to.

A bit short sighted eh?

A 2 year money spinning operation. Well I'll be. Doesn't really address the fact that the majority of profits will flow directly from the client and out of Mayo. The locality will scavenge the dregs. All the while Shell and friends will reap billions. Put in fingers in your ears and your hands over your eyes, lalalalalalalalala....

mike65

Could you post a link or tell me where you saw the pictures that show that? All Ive seen are pictures of a load of gardai and a few trucks

I thought I saw them on indymedia but can't find them. Maybe I'm dreaming of Rossport these nights.

FYI the deal was done about 10 years back no? If it was going to be overtuned it would have happened by now.

Mike.

bushy...

Someone there posted a 'shock horror!!111! Gardai drag smash window and drag woman from van" youtube link , but just below it on the youtube page was the full version where she had driven at one of the gardai

FYI

mike65 wrote:

FYI the deal was done about 10 years back no? If it was going to be overtuned it would have happened by now.

I think you're a few decades out I'm afraid Mike.

I think many people's current views will be tested in the event of a larger turn in the property market, then the 50 billion euro worth of gas will seem a little more important for the economy.

Oh and as an aside, anyone heard of global warming? Or are you all anti-science too?

Time Magazine

Yes, I'm anti-science.

Are you anti-property rights?

FYI

Ibid wrote:

Yes, I'm anti-science.

Are you anti-property rights?

Depends, are you talking about CPOs, or geological sea bed blocks?

Hows that 'gravity' thing working out for you? Getting you down?

lostexpectation

Wompa1 wrote:

Did anybody head up the protests today?
Sorry I'll edit this since I'm being told I need to offer my opinion. My stance on the corrib is much like some of yours givin , the majority of the protestors do seem to be non-locals, I know a lad that was on the site and was talking to him yesterday and it got me pretty mad listening to his account of what happened.
There was an unhealthy mix of Dublin Skangers lookin to take shots at Gardai, alot of British nationals and the typical know it all college hippies. By his accounts and he was standing two feet away from them so he's a good source, it was not a peaceful protest and he said the Gardai were great on the day...I didn't want to really offer an opinion on it and just wanted to see other peoples opinions on the matter because I think I might have a bias against the types of people that do protest and me offering my opinion would just start a big never ending moaning on their parts. Was more hoping for other people to be like minded to myself and despise the small contingent of people that seemingly jump at the chance of having yet another self righteous bullsh!t crusade

ah the unbiased workers point of view who despises them, yeah sure we'll take yous word on it...

lennox1

I know some relatives of Mayo people who were home from England on holidays and went to one of these protests.They went for the craic as they don't get a chance to do that in England and thought it would be good fun to shout insults at the Gardai and the workers, and to be part of a mob for a while.
Funny thing is,they don't give a damn about the protest or the oil terminal.It can be built in the middle of O'Connell St for all they care.They enjoyed the craic and hope it will still be going on next summer when they come on holidays again! We live in a funny old world.

Time Magazine

FYI wrote:

Depends

Well there's your problem. Generally speaking, if the courts acknowledge property rights I accept that decision.

FYI

Ibid wrote:

Well there's your problem. Generally speaking, if the courts acknowledge property rights I accept that decision.

Well there's the problem. We're not speaking generally are we? Or are we?

Vagueness or vacuousness?

Time Magazine

FYI wrote:

Well there's the problem. We're not speaking generally are we? Or are we?

Vagueness or vacuousness?

Wow, you have me convinced!

What an argument.

FYI

Ibid wrote:

Wow, you have me convinced!

What an argument.

Well an argument usually begins with a coherent question, thought I'd leave that up to you.

oscarBravo

Unless this thread starts to contain some coherent arguments PDQ, it's going to be locked. By "coherent arguments", I'm talking about the type of thing of which "you don't understand the issues" is the antithesis.

If you feel someone doesn't understand the issues, please explain them as you see them. If you don't feel like explaining, don't bother participating.

FYI

oscarBravo wrote:

Unless this thread starts to contain some coherent arguments PDQ, it's going to be locked. By "coherent arguments", I'm talking about the type of thing of which "you don't understand the issues" is the antithesis.

If you feel someone doesn't understand the issues, please explain them as you see them. If you don't feel like explaining, don't bother participating.

Thanks, I assume most of that is directed at me. But given you were happy to allow the thread to start with this:

"Was more hoping for other people to be like minded to myself and despise the small contingent of people that seemingly jump at the chance of having yet another self righteous bullsh!t crusade"

and unaccompanied by one single verifiable fact, then I must also assume you're happy to apply different standards to different people. It's pretty obvious this thread wasn't started to initiate discussion. I won't contribute again.

oscarBravo

FYI wrote:

Thanks, I assume most of that is directed at me... I must also assume you're happy to apply different standards to different people.

Both assumptions are incorrect.

FYI wrote:

It's pretty obvious this thread wasn't started to initiate discussion.

That doesn't make it OK to participate without contributing anything useful.

FYI wrote:

I won't contribute again.

Your call. If you change your mind, make sure your next contribution isn't a discussion of moderation.

FTA69

seamus wrote:

Yes, because the Gardai make a habit of randomly beating people when there are no cameras around :rolleyes:

Now myself and the good people of the Gardaí have not always got on the best in the past (on account of them being a pack of b*stards) so please excuse if my post comes across as a tad partisan.

No, the cops rarely beat people at random, but they do beat people on a regular basis. I was at one of the above protests in Corrib where I saw a young cop aggressively push a middle aged woman to the ground while her back was turned. One of them also tried to take a swing at my good self over the roof of a car of which we were at opposite sides. But don't worry lads, he missed (sharp words were exchanged however). There is definitely a culture of violence and cover-up within the Gardaí, and they are very quick with their fists, phone books and batons when they want to be.

oscarBravo

FTA69 wrote:

I was at one of the above protests in Corrib where I saw a young cop aggressively push a middle aged woman to the ground while her back was turned.

She, of course, was simply standing there minding her own business when this fascist pig assaulted her for absolutely no reason whatsoever.

Right?

Or is this similar to the visuals of Maura Harrington being dragged out of her car, leaving out the minor detail that she had just driven her car at the gardaí?

FTA69

She, of course, was simply standing there minding her own business when this fascist pig assaulted her for absolutely no reason whatsoever.

It was after the last occupation (the one before this one) of the construction site, we were departing the site and as we left the gates the cops went mad and started agressively pushing everyone toward the ditch opposite the main gates, in order to "clear the road". Now personally, while disagreeing with such I fully expected it as we all ran in the back gate via the pipe-line route and the cops were wound up completely by us having a peaceful stand around the site. Such to the point where police sitting in a bus were pointing at us and rasing fists. As I said, I expected a bit of a manhandling. However this woman was about 55 (a local as it happens), with her back turned and in the general argy bargy outside this spotty pig sent her flying even though she was actually moving off the road at the time.

Believe it or not OB, not every cop is good and not every protester is a nutter.

bushy...

Slightly less edited version of it
http://youtube.com/watch?v=hC0GMc9gqp4

oscarBravo

FTA69 wrote:

Believe it or not OB, not every cop is good and not every protester is a nutter.

Ironically, I'm not the one who has expressed a blanket opinion on all Gardaí.

Time Magazine

oscarBravo wrote:

Ironically, I'm not the one who has expressed a blanket opinion on all Gardaí.

Zing.

gandalf

The only problem I have with the corrib gas project is the fact a certain governments actions in gifting our natural resources away to companies like Shell mean we as a country will not get the revenues from this resource that we should be.

The rest of the it is just Nimbyism at its worst as is typical for this country like the crowd protesting against the incinerator in Sandymount.

FTA69

Ironically, I'm not the one who has expressed a blanket opinion on all Gardaí.

True, I won't deny the fact I'm not a fan of cops.

Wompa1

lostexpectation wrote:

ah the unbiased workers point of view who despises them, yeah sure we'll take yous word on it...

Well firstly he only drives up there the odd time but yeah he wouldn't be unbiased cus everytime he's stopped from getting on site it adds a few hours to his work day...work, something many of the people protesting up there have never tried....that and showering

As for the argument that I couldn't start the thread with a my little "bullsh!t crusade" rant, I didn't originally post that, I was only curious to see how many people that use these forums were actively protesting up there and was then told I needed to post my opinion, so I did and that was it.

On a different note, my grandparents take a walk every morning cus my grandfather has a bad heart, they use to own a garage and so my grandmother just happened to have a really old Shell cap which she decided to wear for her walk this morning...as they were passing a man hitch hiking on the road, the man snarled at my grandmother to "take that cap off!"...my grandmother is a 76 years old frail lady!...My grandfathers 78 and even more frail but he took no time in lighting a fire under the young crustys ass!...my grandfather actually didn't have an opinion on the matter before the incident, I haven't asked him what his stance is now but knobends like these can't be helping the cause!

lostexpectation

so still the height of your criticism is smelly hippies get a job,wow if thats the depth of critique from the pro shell side no wonder the cops can continue their policy of beating people rather then arresting them

oscarBravo

I'm going to introduce a "no sweeping generalisations" rule on this thread. That means no "protesters are lazy unwashed hippies" posts, and no "cops are fascist pigs who get a kick out of beating old ladies up" posts. No more warnings.

FTA69

and no "cops are fascist pigs who get a kick out of beating old ladies up" posts

I never said that all. Not for a second. What I said was that I personally saw one Garda push an auld one to the ground, not that all of them are "fascist pigs".

I called the Gardai a "pack of bastards", which isn't necessarily a criticism of every single 5-O, rather the organisation they work for.

Well firstly he only drives up there the odd time but yeah he wouldn't be unbiased cus everytime he's stopped from getting on site it adds a few hours to his work day.

Good. If he's any decency he'll quit.

work, something many of the people protesting up there have never tried

Really. I stayed up there for a week. I also do 65 hours a week in East London, which is probably more than you.

oscarBravo

FTA69 wrote:

I never said that all. Not for a second. What I said was that I personally saw one Garda push an auld one to the ground, not that all of them are "fascist pigs".

I called the Gardai a "pack of bastards", which isn't necessarily a criticism of every single 5-O, rather the organisation they work for.

It's still a sweeping generalisation, so please refrain, ta.

FTA69 wrote:

I also do 65 hours a week in East London, which is probably more than you.

That's called getting personal. Don't do that either.

Wompa1

Really. I stayed up there for a week. I also do 65 hours a week in East London, which is probably more than you.[/QUOTE]

Nope, I didn't take a week off so I worked 78 hours over two weeks Stay in East London please..65 hours a week is alot innit!!!?, you should protest your employer

lostexpectation

is the gards stated published policy not to arrest trespassers etc at the sites in rossport, I haven't heard any of protestors makes statement on how many showers they take a week, so how do you think they deal with them?

FTA69

Wompa1 wrote:

Nope, I didn't take a week off so I worked 78 hours over two weeks

Blah blah, the point remains not all protesters are hippies.

Stay in East London please

Why? And I live in North London anyway. Geez.

..65 hours a week is alot innit!!!?, you should protest your employer

Nah, I might get beaten up by the police.

Panda Moanium

FTA69 wrote:

There is definitely a culture of violence and cover-up within the Gardaí, and they are very quick with their fists, phone books and batons when they want to be.

Sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never hurt....Ow! Bloody phone book full of words....:rolleyes: