Is it too early to write-off Ireland?

PH01

PaddyPower are quoting Ireland 3-1 to win group and that's behind Argentina and France. On present form this looks spot on.

However, I'm clinging to the hope that they're gonna turn it on real soon and they'll pull back from the abyss. I can't believe that the team we saw in Croker against England is gone and they won't be returning. All they need is a bit of passion and they're sure to have that for the coming matches.

Does anyone else see this happening or are we hoping against hope here?

jameshayes

Don’t be suppressed if sneaky Eddie is setting up something big....

I think he may be showing false weaknesses so that the French are unprepared.. If he is doing that - its very cleaver!

shrapnel222

french unprepared? come on, they just lost against Argentina, and they've now got their backs to the wall and have a must win game against ireland.

false sense of weakness by performing badly against namibia? wow, that's some serious dreaming going on there

PH01

shrapnel222 wrote:

french unprepared? come on, they just lost against Argentina, and they've now got their backs to the wall and have a must win game against ireland.

false sense of weakness by performing badly against namibia? wow, that's some serious dreaming going on there

I don't see Ireland rolling over for France, particularily after what happened in the 6N. I'd say the team will be up for that game - even more than the back-up-against-the-wall-French.

I expect Laporte and his selections to be shown the door real soon (sorry about the pun)

mikedragon32

OP, that's really not the case.

If we are to draw positives from the games in our group so far, they are as follows (IMHO) :

*In beating France, Argentina proved that France can look panicky(spl?) and seem to lack imagination at the back and in a situation like that, even Chabal can't help them. If the Argentinian backs can deal with the French back line, surely we can too?
*Ireland cannot possibly turn in another weak performace like last Saturday and will look to improve drastically against Georgia
*Georgia may have seen last night's game as their best chance to cause an upset and put in a performance to do that, but in failing have shot their bolt.
*Georgia now only have 3 days and game day to recover from what was a bruising encounter

We should be easily beating teams like Georgia anyway, but these three factors will mean that we should have a much better performance and scoreline against them than Argentina had.

I'm a lot more optimistic about Ireland's chances of getting out of the group now than I was on Sunday night.

jameshayes

shrapnel222 wrote:

french unprepared? come on, they just lost against Argentina, and they've now got their backs to the wall and have a must win game against ireland.

false sense of weakness by performing badly against namibia? wow, that's some serious dreaming going on there

Ah, Eddie is the crafty'ist manager thats out there... I wouldn't put ANYTHING past him... there's only one way to find out unfortunately... wait and see..

redmca

The group could well turn out as follows:

Taking the big 3 countries, and their matches in order, they may get the following points:

Argentina : 4, 5, 5, 0 = 14
France: 0, 5, 4, 5 = 14
Ireland: 5, 5, 1, 4 = 15

This based on us losing to France with a bonus point and beating Argentina.

Alternatively, we get a bonus point against Arg, none against France as long as France don't get a bonus point. Too much of a white knuckle ride that one, I think !!!

And of course if we beat France .........................

ninebeanrows

redmca wrote:

The group could well turn out as follows:

Taking the big 3 countries, and their matches in order, they may get the following points:

Argentina : 4, 5, 5, 0 = 14
France: 0, 5, 4, 5 = 14
Ireland: 5, 5, 1, 4 = 15

This based on us losing to France with a bonus point and beating Argentina.

Alternatively, we get a bonus point against Arg, none against France as long as France don't get a bonus point. Too much of a white knuckle ride that one, I think !!!

And of course if we beat France .........................

Ye left out France's bonus point from the Argie game.

we need 2 more 5 point victories against Georgia and Argentina or a bonus point for our loss against France.

Basically we'll qualify if we get 15 points on the board

jameshayes

I think we have a greater chance to beat France than Arg... Catch them on a bad day... we've a poor track record against both teams..

zAbbo

If you're looking at odds, there are 3 considerations

1. Argetina have played 2 - won 2, so will obviously be rated higher than Ireland. That's fairly simple calculations on the bookies behalf.

2. Ireland rarely beat France, and even rarer win in Paris, thats why France are above us.

3. Ireland were poor against Namibia and have struggled for form recently.

shrapnel222

PH01 wrote:

I don't see Ireland rolling over for France, particularily after what happened in the 6N. I'd say the team will be up for that game - even more than the back-up-against-the-wall-French.

I expect Laporte and his selections to be shown the door real soon (sorry about the pun)

i certainly didn't say that ireland will roll over for France. i think both teams will seriously be up for it and neither team will be unprepared

As far as Laporte goes, he's through after the world cup as he has been appointed sports minister in the new government

NotWormBoy

mikedragon32 wrote:

*In beating France, Argentina proved that France can look panicky(spl?) and seem to lack imagination at the back and in a situation like that, even Chabal can't help them. If the Argentinian backs can deal with the French back line, surely we can too?

I agree with the rest of your points, but not necessarily this one. The Argentinian backs weren't really the only ones dealing with the French backline, it was more the fact that the Argentinian forwards were doing a great job of disrupting French posession and generally making any ball the French did get to the backs slow and messy. The French backs not having their way was as much down to Argentina's forwards than their backs.

komodosp

People should be getting behind the team not moaning about them. I mean constructive criticism is no harm but things like Tony Ward saying we don't deserve the bonus point is! Maybe Flannery's try was a bit dodgy but we had 4 tries anyway... OK one was a penalty try but there's a reason penalty tries are awarded: Because it was going to be a try!

The point I'm trying to make is we laugh at the French crowd who turn on their team when the going gets tough, and here we are doing the same! Make constructive criticism if you like but save your doomsaying and post-mortems till after the WC!

Hugh_C

This may be the wrong thread but we're already under a deluge so why not?

Anyway, I was watching ARG v GEO the other night and in particular watching Miranda at scrumhalf. Every opposing scrum he was harassing the Georgia scrumhalf big time, and I'm wondering if Stringer has the physique to stand up to him. He's big enough, round the 90 kg mark whereas Stringer is giving away about 15kg to him. Or is this mroe to do with refereeing?

hc

Danie Gerber

Don't worry lads. Ireland relish this underdog tag stuff. The expectation has gotten to them recently. But they have alot of heart and with their backs against the wall thy will come out fighting. They have all the skills, the players and the coaching. It's just a mater of putting it all together.

Ireland will beat Georgi by 30, lose to France by less than 7, and beat Argentina without a bonus point but without conceiving one to them either.

Unfortunately, as good as this team is, (and they are...), I can't see them pulling off wins for 5 or 6 weekends in a row against top teams. Let's face it France then Argentina, followed by NZ or Scotland, followed by South Africa or Australia followed by.... Too much IMO.

jameshayes

hughchal wrote:

and I'm wondering if Stringer has the physique to stand up to him. He's big enough, round the 90 kg mark whereas Stringer is giving away about 15kg to him. Or is this mroe to do with refereeing?

IMO stringer doesn't play well when he has someone harrasing him, Boss would be better for this type of play but he doesn't have the relationship with ROG that stinger has...

shrapnel222

Danie Gerber wrote:

Ireland will beat Georgi by 30, lose to France by less than 7, and beat Argentina without a bonus point but without conceiving one to them either.

who's gonna be the father?:p

rugalo

leave the french to their own business of turncoatness, i feel this kind of behaviour of turning our backs on our countries sports men and women when the goin gets tough is becoming more common in ALL sports we compete in. we were well known for our support of our teams through thick and thin so whats happened Ireland? i also think our performance will snowball in a good way, eddie knows what hes doing and i honestly think we can top the pool with 4 wins.
C'MON IRELAND!!!

Attractive Nun

The only thing that has really made much difference to our chances of qualifying, IMO, are the fortunate bonus points picked up by France and Argentina. Had Contempomi knocked one of those penalties over at the end of the opening match, and Argentina failed to run over a try in the last play of the game against Georgia - I would put us as favourites to top the group.

I think we will beat Argentina and deny them a bonus point. It will be tight, but I think we have a team capable of outscoring them by 10+ points. I also think we should expect to be there or thereabouts in the French game - I would be very unhappy if we didn't manage at least a bonus point in that game. That, despite Argentina being in pole position atm, would put us and the French through - points difference deciding who plays NZ.

Basically, we have to beat Argentina by 7+ and stop the French from doing the same to us. I don't see any of the big three failing to pick up bonuses from the minnows (Ourselves and Arg have had our scares, and the French can put a score on anyone is they need to), so that's what I think it comes down to. I reckon we'll end up with the worst points difference of the three come the end of the group, but I still think we'll qualify.

Of course, all this means that if we are serious about progressing in the World Cup, we have to beat the French. This was the situation from the beginning.

Pride Fighter

In my view Eddie used the warm up games in the summer to blood replacement players as injuries will definitely happen in a WC. In doing this we lost games, lowering squad morale and have our first choice players incredibly rusty. The way we are going we should iron out the mistakes and be playing the way we normally do come the knock out stages. The problem is whats the point in peaking for that time if we are on the plane home. I think if we can get out of our group we can win it or at least get to a semi-final. But at the moment it looks as if its going to blow up in Eddies face. Unfortunate as we have great players.

Danie Gerber

shrapnel222

Everybody thought it was ROG but Stringer slipped in unnoticed...

It's like a soapie out there.

tosh_thedude

jameshayes wrote:

Don’t be suppressed if sneaky Eddie is setting up something big....

I think he may be showing false weaknesses so that the French are unprepared.. If he is doing that - its very cleaver!

I was thinking the same thing after watching the first game, I still think Ireland need to worrie more about the French front row than the Argies as a whole. We have the players to top the group and I for one have NOT given up hope that the Irish lads will pull it together on the day, when it matters.

Het-Field

Tomorrow is crucial. However, I feel we will be fa more cautious then we were last sunday !

Stev_o

Id like EOS to take some gambles you know. I wasnt going to say it wont hurt but after last week you never know. But at this stage we need to find out if we have anyone that can add some pace imagination and leadership. Id like to see Carney on to see if you could do something if anything