To shove or not to shove

AKQJ10

From the 50+20 scalps in luke's.

Starting Stack - 4k+4k.
Hero 12k
Villain 10.5k

Villain has position on me and has been faily active post flop and has taken down numerous small pots with re-raises, hasnt shown down a hand.

Blinds 100/200

I make it 675 UTG with Ah Kh. Villain calls UTG+1 and the SB calls.

Flop: Jh 10h 8x

SB checks, I bet 800 and villain makes it 2200 to go. SB folds action on me.

I shoved

Now i know we are never gonna be in horrendous shape here but is it correct to shove in this spot in a tourney.

mdwexford

Hell yeah.

Never ever ever ever dont shove here, EVER.

Also given reads i wouldnt need this big a hand to shove either.

cardshark202

easy money

AKQJ10

If he calls with any hand apart from a draw himself though i still have to hit to win the pot. I dont mind this so much in a cash game but in a tourney should you always get in in with a big draw no matter what.

Moneymaker

Easy shove, even for a nit like me.

HalfBaked

Shipping it in here all day long! Even against the worst range (for you) of hands your 50/50. I'd imagine you would have been in even better shape than 50/50 considering how active the villan has been.

bottom feeder

just after seeing this, always pump the sh!t out of this......

AKQJ10

The reason i asked is cause it looks like exactly what it is here when i shove. The big draw. I mean the villain snapcalled with the 10. with money added in the pot already i think alot of players will call you here. against a set ive 13 outs twice which is what? im guessing its around 45 per cent. why's everyone so keen to race. i thought the idea was to avoid coinflips for your tourney life. i knew i was never not shoving but i thought thats just because i like to gamble.

Moneymaker

Yeah, the goal is to avoid CALLING off your chips in tournies when you're at best 50-50. Moving in is another story as it gives you two ways to win.

BuChan

AKQJ10 wrote:

The reason i asked is cause it looks like exactly what it is here when i shove. The big draw. I mean the villain snapcalled with the 10. with money added in the pot already i think alot of players will call you here. against a set ive 13 outs twice which is what? im guessing its around 45 per cent. why's everyone so keen to race. i thought the idea was to avoid coinflips for your tourney life. i knew i was never not shoving but i thought thats just because i like to gamble.

i don't think you would necessarily be wrong to fold when you know your shove has no fold equity. if you're main goal is to stay in the tournament and are confident you have enough chips behind to continue you can give up one +EV situation to be sure of survival. but over time passing up on these opportunities will probably be just as detrimental as doing so in a cash game. i think playing in this way might be a good way of cashing more frequently and winning less.

ps
12 outs against the set.

LuckyLloyd

This post has been deleted.

AKQJ10

yeah i checked it my guess was you'd be a 45 per cent dog when your actually 33 per cent. i thought at the time he was gonna call cause my image wasnt great as i managed to limp re-raise this guy with k-10 and then re raise the flop he lead out. i thought he'd lay down a 10. good call i guess.

AKQJ10

LuckyLloyd wrote:

Wrong. The objective is to get a lot of money over the line in neutral or plus cEV spots and run good. When you get deep into the tournament and onto a pay bubble (or ticket bubble in a sat) that concept becomes a little muddied.

surely a better objective would be to just get it in miles ahead:rolleyes:

LuckyLloyd

This post has been deleted.

BuChan

off topic.....why the hell is everyone up so early?

Mr.Plough

BuChan wrote:

off topic.....why the hell is everyone up so early?

people have jobs.

i cant open my left eye yet but did he call you with a bare ten?

LuckyLloyd

This post has been deleted.

Hectorjelly

I played a hand in the SE recently, some mtt. Anyway I have 45s in the sb and complete. The flop comes up 23 of my suit, j. I bet out 400 or so. One guy calls. The button makes it 1500. I push all in and he folds, showing a jack with less than 2k behind.

LuckyLloyd

This post has been deleted.

sumoward

BuChan wrote:

off topic.....why the hell is everyone up so early?

Thats Funny.

ianmc38

easy shove

fuzzbox

Hectorjelly wrote:

I played a hand in the SE recently, some mtt. Anyway I have 45s in the sb and complete. The flop comes up 23 of my suit, j. I bet out 400 or so. One guy calls. The button makes it 1500. I push all in and he folds, showing a jack with less than 2k behind.

He was raising to "see where he was at".

dK1NG

Moneymaker wrote:

Yeah, the goal is to avoid CALLING off your chips in tournies when you're at best 50-50. Moving in is another story as it gives you two ways to win.

Re the OP, if the villain had went AI first, is this then a call or fold?

Hitman Actual

dK1NG wrote:

Re the OP, if the villain had went AI first, is this then a call or fold?

It's mostly still a call, unless you have enough info on the player to know he only gets the money in when he flops a monster (sets and straights, probably two-pair as well depending on the numbers).

connie147

Your play is fine. But I'd earmark villian for future reference. He called your all in for all his chips(he still had 8k behind) with 2nd pair.And thats with you being the preflop raiser.

The_Chopper

AKQJ10 wrote:

The reason i asked is cause it looks like exactly what it is here when i shove. The big draw. I mean the villain snapcalled with the 10. with money added in the pot already i think alot of players will call you here. against a set ive 13 outs twice which is what? im guessing its around 45 per cent. why's everyone so keen to race. i thought the idea was to avoid coinflips for your tourney life. i knew i was never not shoving but i thought thats just because i like to gamble.

I personally don't like shoving all in on coin flips and like to play streets. I'm not scared to take hands to the river. If you know the guy will defo call with a bare 10 sometimes calling is a better option. It will give you 2 more streets to try and take the play away.

However OOP i shove all day long

BobSloane

AKQJ10 wrote:

The reason i asked is cause it looks like exactly what it is here when i shove. The big draw. I mean the villain snapcalled with the 10. with money added in the pot already i think alot of players will call you here. against a set ive 13 outs twice which is what? im guessing its around 45 per cent. why's everyone so keen to race. i thought the idea was to avoid coinflips for your tourney life. i knew i was never not shoving but i thought thats just because i like to gamble.

I think you should bet more on the flop. 800 into a pot of 22ish..?
If you bet 1600 here and push over his raise it looks more like you're protecting against draws imo. He could well fold to the 1600 bet which is fine too.
What a sick call. You got your money in as a favourite though...what can you do?

bohsman

AKQJ10 wrote:

The reason i asked is cause it looks like exactly what it is here when i shove. The big draw. I mean the villain snapcalled with the 10.

Not quite, he snapcalled with 9T, flop being 8TJ.