Are badgers a risk?

Whizzo

Hi,
I'm not sure if this enquiy is suited to the forum but I'm including it here to hopefully tap into the country knowledge of the members.

I was walking the dogs last night in one of my field and spotted a pair of orange eyes near a ditch. When I got closer the springers were charging around and I scanned the field again and saw the orange eyes and noticed it was a badger and he was running towards me! I'm not too proud to say that I got spooked and legged it, while wondering how fast a badger can run:D

So to the point of my thread, I have chickens and recently geese - is a badger a threat to these. I've lost birds on two occasions and presumed it to be a fox.

If anyone can give me info on badgers and their threat to my poultry i'd apprectiate it. As far as I know they are protected species.
Thanks

rrpc

Badgers are a protected species under the 1976 wildlife act. Having said that, I remember when I was a lot younger, our hens were being killed at an alarming rate. In fact, they were being beheaded by animal(s) unknown until eventually my Dad caught the culprit red-handed (or red-muzzled). It was in fact a Badger.

It's very unusual, and many didn't believe it to be the case, but I can definitely say that it was indeed a Badger and he was killing the hens by biting their heads off. It was hard to say why he was doing it as he left practically every one of them uneaten, and killed about eight on the night he was shot.

They have incredibly strong jaws, and once they have a hold, they will not let go. I remember stories of Badger hunters putting charcoal sticks down their boots so that if a Badger bit the hunters ankle, they would let go when hearing what they thought was bones cracking!

Whizzo

rrpc wrote:

They have incredibly strong jaws, and once they have a hold, they will not let go. I remember stories of Badger hunters putting charcoal sticks down their boots so that if a Badger bit the hunters ankle, they would let go when hearing what they thought was bones cracking!

So i was right to run, phew, pride intact.
Thanks for the info.

BryanL

no, no need to run,the charcoal stories are often told about guys that went otterhunting and put them in their boots for the same reason.
sounds more than a bit spurious not to mention uncomfortable.
orange eyes?were you out lamping or have they got glowing eyes in your neck of the woods?
to stay within the forums remit,if you get chased again fire a warning shot in their general direction before stumbling away in your coal filled boots:D
good sturdy fencing should keep the birds safe
Bryan

rrpc

BryanL wrote:

no, no need to run,the charcoal stories are often told about guys that went otterhunting and put them in their boots for the same reason.
sounds more than a bit spurious not to mention uncomfortable.

Might sound spurious to you Bryan, but I was told that by someone who actually had his ankle cracked by a Badger. I'd prefer the discomfort of the sticks TBH.

good sturdy fencing should keep the birds safe
Bryan

In our case the Badger had dug under the fence Colditz style. Very hard to spot, as he'd chosen a nice overgrown bit and used to leave with the soil in bags down his trouser legs

BryanL

used to leave with the soil in bags down his trouser legs

typical badgers!make them wear short trousers it's the only way
Bryan

thelurcher

Badgers have fairly small jaws - otters even smaller - I wonder would they have the ability to open them wide enough to get around your average human ankle and still have the power to 'crack' it.
Maybe the guy had osteoporosis or something.

I've heard of them killing sheep - supposedly they rip out the underside to bring them down.

The tree huggers would have us believe that they eat blackberries 12 mths of the year :rolleyes:

rrpc

thelurcher wrote:

Badgers have fairly small jaws - otters even smaller - I wonder would they have the ability to open them wide enough to get around your average human ankle and still have the power to 'crack' it.
Maybe the guy had osteoporosis or something.

The human ankle isn't that thick. Average person would be about 3" or thereabouts in width. The Badger that got our hens all those years ago was a really big specimen, a lot bigger than I've seen since, getting his jaws around your ankle would have been no problem to him.

I've heard of them killing sheep - supposedly they rip out the underside to bring them down.

The tree huggers would have us believe that they eat blackberries 12 mths of the year :rolleyes:

Many people did not believe at the time or since that this one was killing hens and not eating them. We formed the impression that he was lapping the blood and had no interest in the meat.

A Vampire Badger so it seems

Banjax

Badgers will eat what they can, be it hens or pheasant chicks, eggs, worms, snails, anything really.

I'm not sure about the power of their jaws, I've no experience of that thankfully. But they are very strong, I've seen them digging, they are like mini excavators. I once saw a pair digging up dock leaf plants, to get at the roots or something at the root, never understood why.

I'd doubt anyone was in danger out in the open, badgers usually go out of their way to avoid people.

alan123

Rather than charcoal in your socks try a Beretta, they are fast but cant go faster than 1200fps!!!!


There was a lot of myth about badgers spreading TB to cattle but this was only an excuse for badger baiters and has never been proved.

Our man in Galway College studying the foxes should be able to dispel any myths.... well, Peter "Badgers will attack a man": Myth busted or plausable?!

biko

Unfortunately this is how most people will see a badger (meles meles)

BryanL

There was a lot of myth about badgers spreading TB to cattle but this was only an excuse for badger baiters and has never been proved.

Alan are you completely unaware of any study done into the role of badgers in T.B. spread? The four areas study?
every single study bar none has shown a positive link.the only debate has been how to reduce this risk.currently 20% of badgers in the republic carry T.B. that in itself is a heavy burden on badgers and the main focus of the studies now being carried out are how best to reduce the levels in badgers.
even the U.K. has accepted the role of badgers but it questions wether it is financialy viable to control T.B. in badgers.

yes badger watch Ireland came out saying that they believe badgers have no role,but they would say that wouldn't they.
however http://www.agriculture.gov.ie/index.jsp?file=pressrel/2007/89-2007.xml

Badgers diggers certainly existed but with badger baiters you are heading into urban myth.
Bryan

alan123

As for TB....I stand firmly corrected so!

As for the badger baiters (diggers) I understood these were the guys who pitted the badger against dogs in a hole, inevitably resulting in the cruel death of the badger. Is this only a myth??? I never heard of anyone doing it, just talk about it.

Trojan911

biko wrote:

Unfortunately this is how most people will see a badger (meles meles)

u

Trojan911

biko wrote:

Unfortunately this is how most people will see a badger (meles meles)

And most wildlife................

TJ911...

Banjax

There may be some throwback types who try to dig out and set terriers on badgers, but I've never seen it or heard of it ever being done in my area, in my lifetime. In fact I've only ever read about it.

Badgers are a TB vector, there is no doubt about that. How serious a vector they are is the question.

Neo Researcher

I got a PM asking me to answer some of the questions here. So I will do my best.

How fast can a badger run?
Not very is what I would have thought. Just did a quick search and read 25 to 30 km per hour for short distances. Would think it is pretty unusual for a badger to move at this speed and they mostly amble along.

Do badgers attack people?
Like was stated here they would go out of there way to avoid people. I have read radio tracking studies that show they also have left the area when cattle appear but they may become habituated to the presence of cattle overtime. The black and white coloration on a badger is warning symbol. It basically tells all other animals to leave it alone. As was said here they have very powerful claws for digging and very powerful jaws. They have a pronounced saggital crest, a ridge of bone that runs along the centre of the skull in some animals. Jaw muscles attach to it to give a more powerful bite. For example it’s very pronounced in hyenas for cracking open bones and gorillas that have to chew coarse vegetable material. So basically as a wild carnivore it can be dangerous as it has adequate means to protect itself, but if you leave it alone it will leave you alone. As for the sticks down your panse I have heard it a lot of times too. I wouldn’t believe it myself. Badgers mainly eat earthworms and other prey is usually mouse sized so I'd surprised if they learnt this bone snapping behavior. I have also trapped badgers once with a badger expert and I'm sure if there was any health and safety advantage to sticks down the panse he would have insisted on it.

Attacking poultry?
It is possible for a badger to kill poultry but I wouldn’t say badgers are big threat to poultry. It’s not really in the nature of a badger to go after birds that size. Any chance it was actually a mink? What time of year was it? I have looked through a few studies just there and found one done in Bialowieza Forest in Poland where in 5% of samples they found bird remains from a song thrush, bird egg, and undetermined small and large bird. This was done by looking at scats (****) so it cannot be determined whether they killed or came upon these birds already dead. A lot of predators surplus kill domestic animals. In the wild the prey are better equipped to escape so its in the best nature of the predator to kill what it can while it has the chance before it escapes. With farmed animals the predator has far too great a chance which means a fox or mink getting into the hen house can be disastrous for the farmer. Interesting about the badger lapping up the blood. I know in wolves that have been seen to kill a cow they will eat the soft stomach first as it’s easy to get at. If they are disturbed they will bolt leaving the impression they only wanted the stomach. Perhaps this was the case with the badger.

Attacking sheep?
I have never heard of a confirmed case of this and badgers are not really designed to kill animals of this size. Badgers are also scavengers tough so it is possible that they would be seen feeding on dead sheep.

Feeding only on blackberries?
Unlike some people these days who would be happier paying about 4 euro for a small punnet of blackberries badgers are still happy to eat them of the bushes. The main bulk of their diet is earthworms tough. They will happily however consume anything else easily they come across like other invertebrates, mice, frogs, anything they can scavenge.

Badger baiting?
Yes it has and probably still does occur. About 2 years ago I saw a sett that had all the evidence of being used for this.

TB?
Yes badgers do carry bovine TB and have been associated with outbreaks of bTB. Studies have shown that culling of badgers in areas reduced the occurrence of cattle in areas. Studies have also shown an increase in areas where badgers have been removed from. This is believed to be due to the removal of badgers upsetting the social territories of badgers causing greater movement of badgers in the area, increasing the chance of badgers contracting the disease from infected badgers or cattle and spreading it. This kind of conflicting information is common in relation to badgers and bTB but some badgers do carry it and there is a lot of evidence suggesting those that do carry it can potentially pass it onto cattle. I think some of the best research in this country has come from people like Dr Paddy Sleeman in Cork, who knows much more about badgers than me and could give much better answers. He is unbiased in his approach and just genuinely interested in finding out what is going on. Some of his research now is looking at how badgers could be infecting cattle as nobody is sure how exactly this takes place and also on a vaccine for badgers and a national census so the vaccine can be administered.

That’s what I think on the whole thing anyway.

A lot of the confusion about badgers and bTB has come from misinformation as is often the case in outbreaks of disease. Recent research is helping answer some of the questions tough (and create even more). Hopefully I will be able to answer some of the questions regarding bovine neosporosis myself. I am also going to be looking at badgers but getting them directly from the central veterinary labs only. Anyone have any luck with foxes or mink lately? Was hoping with foxes dispersing around this time of year to get more than usual.

Neo Researcher

Didnt realise it was such a long post. Kept me out of the caf at lunch time tough. Being from Cork studying in Galway am due a slagging after yesterdays hiding

cavan shooter

excellent thread, good info. No Luck yet

Neo Researcher

I like the "yet" part

BryanL

interesting links here well worth reading and explains alot of what was once thought to be "badger Baiting injuries"


http://www.bbc.co.uk/nature/animals/features/98set.shtml
http://www.bbc.co.uk/nature/animals/features/65slaug.shtml