Chances of a refund from paypal?

tech77

I bought something for my mother on ebay about 2 weeks ago from a seller in the UK using a 3v voucher thru' Paypal.
(seller had good feedback. Mostly happy punters)

Product never arrived. Never got an email saying it had shipped.
Emailed her and left voicemail repeatedly but no response.
I find out last week seller is now no longer registered with ebay.
Doesn't look good.

So i've escalated things to a claim to Paypal.
What are the chances i'll get my money back and what are the things that determine this.

Do Paypal only refund if
a) i can prove non-receipt and
b) if their are funds in the sellers account.
BTW how do you prove non-receipt anyway?

Also i used a 3v voucher: any possibility of a chargeback with this and how would that work.

Any advice would be great.
Thanks.

jor el

Did you pay for registered post on the auction? If so, you can prove non receipt by saying the seller never gave you a tracking number and hasn't answered your mails/calls. If the seller doesn't reply to the dispute (within 10 days I think) you started with Paypal then they will find in your favour.

The refund is usually dependent on the seller having sufficient funds, which is probably unlikely given that she's no longer an eBay member. Looks not so good for you at the moment I'm afraid.

If a refund does happen, then Paypal will refund the money back to your 3V voucher. If that has expired, then you can claim the cash back from 3V one it shows up (and remember there's another fee associated with that too).

If this were a normal credit card and Paypal were unable to refund the money then you could contact your card issuer and ask them to charge back, which I've heard does work. I don't know if this is possible with a 3V card or how you'd go about it. Contact the bank might be the best bet, in the event that your funds are not returned of course.

tech77

jor el wrote:

Did you pay for registered post on the auction? If so, you can prove non receipt by saying the seller never gave you a tracking number and hasn't answered your mails/calls. If the seller doesn't reply to the dispute (within 10 days I think) you started with Paypal then they will find in your favour.

The refund is usually dependent on the seller having sufficient funds, which is probably unlikely given that she's no longer an eBay member. Looks not so good for you at the moment I'm afraid.

If a refund does happen, then Paypal will refund the money back to your 3V voucher. If that has expired, then you can claim the cash back from 3V one it shows up (and remember there's another fee associated with that too).

If this were a normal credit card and Paypal were unable to refund the money then you could contact your card issuer and ask them to charge back, which I've heard does work. I don't know if this is possible with a 3V card or how you'd go about it. Contact the bank might be the best bet, in the event that your funds are not returned of course.

Thanks.
A lot of hoops to jump through :mad:
Don't know if it was registered post TBH- how would i check this?
I suppose Paypal would have the details anyway right.
Never got a tracking number for it anyway BTW.

The thing about this seller is pretty much all her feedback was good except for a few people saying 'Very poor communication' and 'Item took ages to come'. Still pretty much everyone got their stuff.

BTW with CC companies how do chargebacks work- is it only if the funds are accessible from the seller in some way?

jor el

Check the original auction to see what postage options were present, there may also be a record of what you choose on the Paypal receipt.

As for charge backs, the credit card issuer will take the money back off Paypal, has nothing to do with the seller as Paypal are the ones who took the money from your card, what they do with it afterwards is not the credit card companies concern.

tech77

jor el wrote:

Check the original auction to see what postage options were present, there may also be a record of what you choose on the Paypal receipt.

As for charge backs, the credit card issuer will take the money back off Paypal, has nothing to do with the seller as Paypal are the ones who took the money from your card, what they do with it afterwards is not the credit card companies concern.

OK thanks.
The user is actually no longer registered so the auction isn't there but i checked the paypal receipt and the postage is:

Royal Mail Airmail (Small Packets)
Insurance (per item): (not offered)

Just because insurance wasn't offered doesn't mean it wasn't registered mail right?
Airmail would probably be registered anyway wouldn't it.

Anyway if it is indeed registered i didn't get a tracking number from her and presumably it's up to her to prove she can provide a tracking number right?

So if there's no tracking number it's then only a matter of trying to get the refund off her?

But if she has legged it what lengths will Paypal go to retrieve the refund??

jor el

tech77 wrote:

Royal Mail Airmail (Small Packets)
Insurance (per item): (not offered)

Not registered then I'm afraid, standard airmail has no tracking.

But if she has legged it what lengths will Paypal go to retrieve the refund??

If she's cleared out her account then Paypal will do nothing for you.

Best thing would be to file the dispute (if you haven't already) escalate to a claim and see what happens. Paypal will give the seller 10 days to reply. If no funds are available then contact the bank about a chargeback on the card.

tech77

-

jor el wrote:

Not registered then I'm afraid, standard airmail has no tracking.

If she's cleared out her account then Paypal will do nothing for you.

Best thing would be to file the dispute (if you haven't already) escalate to a claim and see what happens. Paypal will give the seller 10 days to reply. If no funds are available then contact the bank about a chargeback on the card.

Thanks.
Ah crap.
Not much hope so.

Yeah i've filed a claim with paypal and i'm waiting for them to get back.

I'll ask 3v about a chargeback but i wouldn't think that's possible TBH.

What's the moral of this story?
That paypal are next to useless in this situation? Use a credit card instead?
Never buy something with unregistered postage?
Don't trust feedback?

What do you think i can do to ensure this doesn't happen in future.

C_Breeze

the burden of proof is on the seller not buyer.

the seller needs to prove the item has been delivered , not the buyer .

file a dispute and escalate to claim straight away.

the advise the other poster gave you is all bull. (sorry)

tech77

C_Breeze wrote:

the burden of proof is on the seller not buyer.

the seller needs to prove the item has been delivered , not the buyer .

file a dispute and escalate to claim straight away.

the advise the other poster gave you is all bull. (sorry)

I don't want to argue for the seller here obviously but are you sure about this?
Are you saying even if i bought something via unregistered (ie untrackable) post i have some comeback.
Is it that the seller shouldn't have used unregistered post in the first place and therefore she is liable if non-receipt is claimed... or something?

How can non-receipt be proven without a tracking number.
You say the seller has to ensure/prove it gets to me regardless of whether it's registered post or not.

I've filed a claim and i'm waiting for Paypal to get back anyway.

jor el

C_Breeze wrote:

the advise the other poster gave you is all bull. (sorry)

Everything I said is correct, you are talking through your arse.

What I said was that:
"Not registered then I'm afraid, standard airmail has no tracking."
Exactly which part of that is bull?

"If she's cleared out her account then Paypal will do nothing for you."
Again, this is true, Paypal will only refund if funds are available.

"Best thing would be to file the dispute (if you haven't already) escalate to a claim and see what happens."
Again, all true.

"Paypal will give the seller 10 days to reply. If no funds are available then contact the bank about a chargeback on the card."
Please point out where any of this is wrong.

tech77 wrote:

What's the moral of this story?
That paypal are next to useless in this situation? Use a credit card instead?
Never buy something with unregistered postage?
Don't trust feedback?

What do you think i can do to ensure this doesn't happen in future.

Paypal aren't next to useless, but they're not far off. If a it's just a lazy seller then you can often get your money back. If it's an actual scammer then they don't seem too bothered as long as they're not out of pocket. 3V should be able to chargeback, but ring them or email to find out for sure.

Feedback is OK, but a good scammer will ensure that there is no negative comments before he starts the scam.

In the future, there's not a lot you can do to prevent it, bar not using eBay.

tech77 wrote:

Are you saying even if i bought something via unregistered (ie untrackable) post i have some comeback.

You have comeback since you didn't receive the item and you've started the claim. Whether it gets you anywhere or not will by up to Paypal.

eBay doesn't force sellers to use recorded delivery so there was nothing wrong with standard Airmail. I've also seen many eBay auctions where the seller specifically state that if you choose Airmail then the seller will not be responsible if anything happens it, only for recorded delivery can the buyer claim. Now I'm not sure of whether they can enforce that or not, or whether eBay and Paypal still put the burden of proof on the seller, I can't find anything on either website to clarify it.

tech77

OK thanks.
I'll just see how i get on with paypal.
Interesting you say 3v would do a chargeback. (Who pays for that if your one's fecked off i wonder?)

pow wow

tech77 wrote:

I don't want to argue for the seller here obviously but are you sure about this?
Are you saying even if i bought something via unregistered (ie untrackable) post i have some comeback.
Is it that the seller shouldn't have used unregistered post in the first place and therefore she is liable if non-receipt is claimed... or something?

How can non-receipt be proven without a tracking number.
You say the seller has to ensure/prove it gets to me regardless of whether it's registered post or not.

I've filed a claim and i'm waiting for Paypal to get back anyway.

Yep. I had a chargeback done against me a couple of years back claiming non-receipt because I couldn't prove the item had been delivered, even though I could prove I had mailed it (proof of posting). I posted on an Ebay forum about it and was advised to never ever mail without proof of delivery ever ever again lol.

jor el

tech77 wrote:

(Who pays for that if your one's fecked off i wonder?)

Paypal will end up being out of pocket if the chargeback goes through. Paypal's own terms of service state that you cannot do a chargeback against them, but that's not something they have control over, they're just hoping that most people won't do it when they see it written down.

nazoil

You can check the listing on your Items Won Page in My Ebay

Once the item was paid with paypal, you qualify for up to £500 coverage, regardless of whether the seller has cleared the account or not. The precise level of coverage will be shown on the listing page.

When you make the claim, if the seller cannot provide proof of postage you are entitled to a refund. If there is no response from seller within 10 days, the claim is automatically decided in your favour

You should always check a seller's completed listings and determine if a high percentage of buyer's have left positive feedback within a reasonable time. Disgruntled buyers often don't leave any feedback because the seller will leave retaliatory negative even though the seller is in the wrong.

When selling, ALWAYS get at least a certificate of posting or preferably register the item. When buying ALWAYS insist on getting either a tracking number or proof of postage within a few days. DON'T waste time on paypal dispute resolution - go straight for a CLAIM. Paypal screw sellers for fees, so they can well afford it and it may force them to clean up their act

Vikings

jor el wrote:

"If she's cleared out her account then Paypal will do nothing for you."
Again, this is true, Paypal will only refund if funds are available.

That's not always true, quickest way to find out is to go back to the auction you bought the item from by searching the item number on eBay. Under the seller's details you will see a Buy Safely section, if it says here that your auction is covered by PayPal Buyer Protection then a refund can be guaranteed if the case is won in your favour.

C_Breeze

jor el wrote:

Everything I said is correct, you are talking through your arse.

What I said was that:
"Not registered then I'm afraid, standard airmail has no tracking."
Exactly which part of that is bull?

"If she's cleared out her account then Paypal will do nothing for you."
Again, this is true, Paypal will only refund if funds are available.

"Best thing would be to file the dispute (if you haven't already) escalate to a claim and see what happens."
Again, all true.

"Paypal will give the seller 10 days to reply. If no funds are available then contact the bank about a chargeback on the card."
Please point out where any of this is wrong.


Paypal aren't next to useless, but they're not far off. If a it's just a lazy seller then you can often get your money back. If it's an actual scammer then they don't seem too bothered as long as they're not out of pocket. 3V should be able to chargeback, but ring them or email to find out for sure.

Feedback is OK, but a good scammer will ensure that there is no negative comments before he starts the scam.

In the future, there's not a lot you can do to prevent it, bar not using eBay.

You have comeback since you didn't receive the item and you've started the claim. Whether it gets you anywhere or not will by up to Paypal.

eBay doesn't force sellers to use recorded delivery so there was nothing wrong with standard Airmail. I've also seen many eBay auctions where the seller specifically state that if you choose Airmail then the seller will not be responsible if anything happens it, only for recorded delivery can the buyer claim. Now I'm not sure of whether they can enforce that or not, or whether eBay and Paypal still put the burden of proof on the seller, I can't find anything on either website to clarify it.

edit: never mind

C_Breeze

jor el wrote:

Paypal will end up being out of pocket if the chargeback goes through. Paypal's own terms of service state that you cannot do a chargeback against them, but that's not something they have control over, they're just hoping that most people won't do it when they see it written down.

Oh man , you seriously dont have a clue what you are talking about so dont pretend you do.

Research it and look it up before you post false information

jor el

What the hell are you talking about now?