Ireland's greatest ever captain

Snickers Man

It's got to be Big Willie Anderson

Oh if only we could struggle through to the Q final against the All Blacks and do that again. Paul O'Connell would be the ideal spearhead for such a move.

Agamemnon

That was class. Only problem is, the All Blacks get really riled up if you disrespect the haka. Look what they did to Italy after the latter team turned their backs on them.

Snickers Man

agamemnon wrote:

That was class. Only problem is, the All Blacks get really riled up if you disrespect the haka. Look what they did to Italy after the latter team turned their backs on them.

No matter what you do to face the haka, there will always be some bloody Kiwi saying you disrespected it. It's why they do it--to build up a totally artificial grievance that somebody else is disrespecting their sacred culture.

At least the Willie Anderson way you can look at the tape nearly 20 years later and say "IN YER FACE!!!"

Classic.

LostinBlanch

Snickers Man wrote:

No matter what you do to face the haka, there will always be some bloody Kiwi saying you disrespected it. It's why they do it--to build up a totally artificial grievance that somebody else is disrespecting their sacred culture.

At least the Willie Anderson way you can look at the tape nearly 20 years later and say "IN YER FACE!!!"

Classic.

Apparently the Kiwis said they'd never play* Ireland again if they "disrespected" their Haka again in such a way. Whingers.

*I'm assuming they were talking about friendlies etc and not world cup games where they'd have to play.

Snickers Man

LostinBlanch wrote:

Apparently the Kiwis said they'd never play* Ireland again if they "disrespected" their Haka again in such a way. Whingers.

I'm not so sure about that. Anderson said in an interview later that the All Black captain Shelford (the guy who couldn't jump up at the end of the haka because Anderson was standing on his toe) told him that his thoughts at the time were "Great. We're going to get a really good game of rugby here"


My recollection is that the IRB was so worried about potential outbreaks of fisticuffs that they laid down a ruling that teams facing the haka had to stay in their own half in future.

Wonder what they would do if somebody ignored it.

Wonder if we'll get a chance to find out

Sangre

Yes, wouldn't want to offend the official Addidas™ haka.

Amazotheamazing

The Haka is so special, and really meaningful too. I learned this through an adidas ad.

Bunch of precious tossers in NZ, it's the most sacred thing in the world until they can sell it for a few quid.

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

Jilm

Is there anyway to extract Andersons essence and inject into some of the more spineless Irish players before the French game?

Supercell

For me has to be Ciaran Fitzgerald.
I remember my aul lad bringing me to a friendly game against Romania (I think) in Lansdowne.

It was an easy enough game for Ireland, but I recall Fitzgerald huddling the team just in front of where we were sitting and turning the air pure blue. He was pretty elequent, to say the least, to a couple of players.

Just after that the team played like they had just got a massive shot of adrenalin for the next ten mins or so, being a young lad at the time I was hugely impressed at the captains direct effect on his team and the moment sticks in my memory for that.

LuckyLloyd

Snickers Man wrote:

No matter what you do to face the haka, there will always be some bloody Kiwi saying you disrespected it. It's why they do it--to build up a totally artificial grievance that somebody else is disrespecting their sacred culture.

At least the Willie Anderson way you can look at the tape nearly 20 years later and say "IN YER FACE!!!"

Classic.

Yeah. And then Ireland went out and really showed them up on the pitch by getting spanked 23 - 6. That'll show em fo sho.

LuckyLloyd

Longfield wrote:

For me has to be Ciaran Fitzgerald.
I remember my aul lad bringing me to a friendly game against Romania (I think) in Lansdowne.

It was an easy enough game for Ireland, but I recall Fitzgerald huddling the team just in front of where we were sitting and turning the air pure blue. He was pretty elequent, to say the least, to a couple of players.

Just after that the team played like they had just got a massive shot of adrenalin for the next ten mins or so, being a young lad at the time I was hugely impressed at the captains direct effect on his team and the moment sticks in my memory for that.

"Where's your ****ing pride?" (vs England at landsdowne in 85)

Unlike Anderson's little show of petulance highlighted by the OP - Ireland actually WON that day.

joe90

So this threads turn into another kiwi bashing thread ?

Jilm

joe90 wrote:

So this threads turn into another kiwi bashing thread ?

'fraid so, they had it coming anyhoo.

jameshayes

Boo... Down with the haka *just joining in, nothing to add really*

Snickers Man

LuckyLloyd wrote:

"Where's your ****ing pride?" (vs England at landsdowne in 85)

Unlike Anderson's little show of petulance highlighted by the OP - Ireland actually WON that day.

Yeah but we weren't playing New Zealand that day; only the English.

There: thread subtly changed from Kiwi-bashing to English bashing. I trust we're all happy now.


So what if we lost to NZ that day. At least we made a game of it. Willie made sure of that.

Man's a legend.

il gatto

Ciaran Fitzgerald because he was a hell of a player as well as a leader.
Keith Woods because he never went out on the field with anything less than a full tank of gas. Gave it his all and led by example.(And would you argue with him?):cool:

buck65

Brian o Driscoll with his inspirational......was gonna take the piss but why bother

Linford

buck65 wrote:

Brian o Driscoll with his inspirational......was gonna take the piss but why bother

Whatever you think about our current captain he has had a hell of a lot more success that the aforementioned Willie Anderson and Keith Woods... And look at Ireland's record recently when O'Driscoll has been unavailable and O'Connell has been captain! O'Driscoll must be doing something right, "inspirational" or not (last Sunday aside).

LuckyLloyd

Linford wrote:

Whatever you think about our current captain he has had a hell of a lot more success that the aforementioned Willie Anderson and Keith Woods... And look at Ireland's record recently when O'Driscoll has been unavailable and O'Connell has been captain! O'Driscoll must be doing something right, "inspirational" or not (last Sunday aside).

Here, here.

LuckyLloyd

Snickers Man wrote:

So what if we lost to NZ that day. At least we made a game of it. Willie made sure of that.

Man's a legend.

23 - 6

There is very little to be proud about from the Willie Anderson era.

joe90

Would have to agree on Keith Wood he was a great captain and always gave110%.

Amz

I really miss Bill McLaren's rugby commentary.

Linford

joe90 wrote:

Would have to agree on Keith Wood he was a great captain and always gave110%.

Keith Wood may always have given 110% but the Irish team he played on most certainly did not, he had a disastrous win/loss ratio and was captain for some of our worst performances...

joe90

Yeh that is true.What i meant was he was the kind off captain that lead by example.Even when the team were performing bad he seem to never give up.

Amz

He seemed to end up in the backs an awful lot from what I saw. I agree his passion was great and as someone said you probably wouldn't argue with him without a good headstart, but are they really the only qualities you want in a captain?

A captain leading by example should be the catalyst that causes other players to raise their game, not continue playing badly.

razorblunt

I'd say Keith Wood, there's been times when he almost single handedly kept the team going, vs NZ in 1997 when he got two tries springs to mind here.

il gatto

I think we're not giving them a level playing field (excuse the pun). O'Driscoll has been a success results wise as his era of captaincy has coincided with Irelands best generation of players as a whole. Keith Wood's era had a scattering of good players and lots of journeymen.
Does anyone think that Keith Wood would have overseen such a passionless performance as last Sunday. If he couldn't raise everyone else, at least you knew he'd being going at it hammer and tongs regardless. Inspirational.
I'm not dissing BOD. I think he has raised the level of professionalism and expectancy, and is very eloquent compared to many top players.

Linford

razorblunt wrote:

I'd say Keith Wood, there's been times when he almost single handedly kept the team going, vs NZ in 1997 when he got two tries springs to mind here.

As I said, he was a great player, and although he got two tries that day, Ireland got murdered...

LuckyLloyd

Perceptions of greatness in captains has to bear a significant relationship to results as far as I am concerned. Ask yourself whether it is more difficult to stand out and become the accepted leader of a talented squad pushing to achieve in a real way - or whether it is harder to shine during a period where Irish rugby is in the doldroms and the expectation and pressure levels are low.

As such, Woods and Anderson ain't getting my vote - despite their undoubted heroism.

kevpants

God damn it I got here too late for the Kiwi-bashing. Why wasn't I informed earlier?

If we get to a QF against NZ and O'Driscoll disrespects the haka in a more imaginitive way than Willie then he gets my vote.

Slowly walking towards one of the big scary men in the black t-shirts and pulling down his shorts, or maybe giving him a big kiss?

Maybe a "Best way to disrespect the Haka" thread is called for?