Anyone like this line? (final table bubble)

Flipper

Ok, tourney was Big Slicks' Invitational last night in Waterford. 20k starting and a slow clock. I think there were 44 players with 880k in play. Down to 11. I've played no big pots (to back this up, this was also a scalp game and i had collected zero) but had built my stack up to 120k without showing down many hands.

The villain (Richie Frisby of Big Slick) is a very tight player whom I have noticed has a habit of massively overbetting his big hands. In a hand against Sideshow, he pushed 26k into 8k with 99 on an A9T board. Earlier in the game, I had him all in with AA vs his TT but he sucked out. We are now the two big stacks at the table and he does not seem interested in playing big pots with me.

Blinds 1,500/3000 playing 6 handed. Sideshow makes it 10k UTG+1 (playing 70k), I make the call with 33. Richie is aware that me and Bob have a lot of experience with each other and I would never call here against any other player. He will know that my call could be a wide-ish range. Folded to Richie in the BB and he makes it 30k playing 140k. He has shown the ability to lay down all night and after Sideshow folded, I moved all in. Richie goes into the tank for a long time. Anyone like this play?

BigCityBanker

this play can only be considered in a vacum - that being the dynamics of last nights game and your the guy best placed to decide if it was a good play or not. As a rule id be willing to look this move with 99+ AQ+ - I dont think your play taken carte blance is a long term profitable move but it may be profitable in a given situation where the dynamics of the game dictate as much.

Flipper

Yes Noel, well said. I forgot to say I expect him to fold everything except AA, KK and QQ.

Van Dice

Flipper wrote:

Yes Noel, well said. I forgot to say I expect him to fold everything except AA, KK and QQ.

What do you think his 3-betting range is preflop?

LuckyLloyd

This post has been deleted.

Flipper

Van Dice wrote:

What do you think his 3-betting range is preflop?

88+, AQ+. Bob's range is wide enough and his play is a squeeze a lot of the time. Another factor to doing what I did

HeeHawsCantona

As Noel says in the particular dynamics of last nights game you can perhaps make a case for it but I for one think its totally mental.
Bob can be raising here with a wide range and you flat call - then when Richie raises you suddenly try to represent a premium hand. Ok - it may work but if not you are against AK at best and are most likely a 4-1 dog.
I dont like it one little bit. Utterly mental.

shoutman

LuckyLloyd wrote:

Hi Flipper, given such a read and, assuming it is accurate, then the play is definately a good aggressive move. However, I don't really care how well you know Bob's game. IMO you just cannot flatcall 33 in this spot given the stacksizes.

I cant really comment on the all in, but this was what I was about to say. flat calling preflop in this spot is a bit poor imo, unless you think you can take him off his hand after the flop.

Van Dice

Flipper wrote:

Yes Noel, well said. I forgot to say I expect him to fold everything except AA, KK and QQ.

Van Dice wrote:

What do you think his 3-betting range is preflop?

Flipper wrote:

88+, AQ+. Bob's range is wide enough and his play is a squeeze a lot of the time. Another factor to doing what I did

Then given the preflop call, you should push here with ATC, no?

kebabfest

Flipper wrote:

Ok, tourney was Big Slicks' Invitational last night in Waterford. 20k starting and a slow clock. I think there were 44 players with 880k in play. Down to 11. I've played no big pots (to back this up, this was also a scalp game and i had collected zero) but had built my stack up to 120k without showing down many hands.

The villain (Richie Frisby of Big Slick) is a very tight player whom I have noticed has a habit of massively overbetting his big hands. In a hand against Sideshow, he pushed 26k into 8k with 99 on an A9T board. Earlier in the game, I had him all in with AA vs his TT but he sucked out. We are now the two big stacks at the table and he does not seem interested in playing big pots with me.

Blinds 1,500/3000 playing 6 handed. Sideshow makes it 10k UTG+1 (playing 70k), I make the call with 33. Richie is aware that me and Bob have a lot of experience with each other and I would never call here against any other player. He will know that my call could be a wide-ish range. Folded to Richie in the BB and he makes it 30k playing 140k. He has shown the ability to lay down all night and after Sideshow folded, I moved all in. Richie goes into the tank for a long time. Anyone like this play?

So you basically assumed that Richie was making a squeeze play ? If this is the case and you figured he would put down everything but monsters then a great move. However you flat calling out of position would probably make him doubt whether you had a monster and call with 88+ leaving you in a world of pain.
Poker is all about Risk\Reward. Too much risk here for me and not enough reward.

sikes

Van Dice wrote:

Then given the preflop call, you should push here with ATC, no?

Obv, 33 prob has the worst equity possible against his calling range! Its in spots like this when I would really like any type of A. I think you get looked up too much for this to be good without an A.

bops

it's not a bad play flipper - you know you're only gonna get looked up by AA KK QQ and AK possibly

if i knew all ye were going - i wudda made the effort to turn up - i hope richie folded JJ face up

Hitman Actual

Flipper wrote:

Yes Noel, well said. I forgot to say I expect him to fold everything except AA, KK and QQ.

As Van Dice said, how often do you expect his pf re-raise to be QQ+? If his range is suitably wide, then pushing here is fine. And the strength of your hand doesn't really matter, ATC will do. But if QQ+ is a big part of his range, then pushing is bad.

Hectorjelly

the first flat call is quite terrible, you should only be flat calling there with a monster so I quite like the 2nd push if the guy is thinking and a bit of a scaredy cat. I hate your reasoning though, as if he knows you have a wide range in the first place I doubt he is going to fold much.

To make this profitable there needs to be a substantial difference between Richies 3 betting and calling ranges in this spot.

in some ways it doesnt matter how profitable the 2nd move is because the first bit is so bad

bops

flipper called bobs raise because he knew he had a good chance to take it off him otf...it's not a bad play by any stretch of the imagination

LuckyLloyd

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Flipper

Not sure if I agree here LLoyd with Sideshow being the man in question. If I 3-bet him with 33 from the button, he will put me on a HUGE range and may ship a very wide range himself. He has a tendency to shut down on flops he misses (assume he has two big cards) and I will win a nice pot with little effort. Tbh, I didn't give much thought to the players left to act. Also, Sideshow had mentioned the fact that I had flat called with a monster about a half hour before. Both knew this.

LuckyLloyd

This post has been deleted.

Flipper

Lloyd, his range is massive. We had already seen him raising (and calling smallish all-ins) in similiar spots with A7, JQ and 55. Richie knows this and my play is taking into account the large % of the time he is squeezing here given the info he has on the two of us.

HeeHawsCantona

The more I think about it this is a braindead move and if I went out on it I would be absolutely furious with myself.
You put him on 88+ / AQ+ so basically a 9 hand range (7 of which have you crushed and you're racing against the other 2) and I think he calls with 4 of them for sure and perhaps JJ and 1010 also. You put your whole tournament on the line for this. This is poor at both junctures in my opinion - it's very brave mind you.

cardshark202

Preflop is an easy fold first time round. Calling is dumping chips away. I don't like the 4bet at all, most players never believe the flat-call 2bet, shove over 3bet line and will snap with TT

Dave147

What would jesus do?

But seriously, what was the outcome of the hand?

bops

Dave147 wrote:

What would jesus do?

But seriously, what was the outcome of the hand?

villain called with QQ flopped a set but flipper got runner runner to make a 3 - high flush - that would be cool!

Dave147

Haha, that sounds even better than runner runner quads

connie147

Hi Flipper,
You've said Richie is very tight and in the couple of times I've played with him I'd agree with that opinion. I dont think Richie will try a squeeze play here with any 2 cards. He has either JJ,QQ,KK,AA or AK. And with the size of his bet,methinks he wants action. Its a brave move and he might possibbly fold JJ or the AK, but I dont think I'd be risking it with 33,specially into a tight player with the same stack as me. Has he 3bet much during the night?

poorbarman

Flat calling with 33 preflop with players to act is terrible IMO and pushing the reraise with the stack sizes the way they were is even worse.You are putting everything on the line basically hoping Mr Frisby WILL fold everything bar AA KK,maybe AK.Dont like this at all........but i presume he did fold..............QQ

tipp86

Calling bob pre flop i could not agree with i feel you cant be certain he has missed,once he c bets the flop he will only be playin around 45000 so trying to play him off the hand representing a massive hand might not be best in the situation.

I feel richies hand range is JJ to AA maybe AK you may get him to fold JJ QQ AK its not a move i would have made even on the bubble.

bops

edit me dont read good lovely

mdwexford

I knew you'd post this hand Flipper.
I thought you were playing very well up to this stage but i dont lke like this move at all.
First of all there is no way Richie's 3 bet is ever a squeeze, he has a big hand here, 10-10 at the absolute minimum. Second, i just dont think your line makes sense, you re-popped earlier with the Aces and now you flat call Bobs raise and then expect him to give you credit for a premium hand when you 4 bet. It was really obvious you were squeezing i thought. His range here is 10-10+, and A-K of which 10-10 is all he might consider folding.

mrflash

its a powerful move and the fact that you have not showed too many hands means you have to be respected, but i don't like it. You are racing against two overcards at the very least here if you are called. You stated that Richie has a tendency to overbet a big hand postflop, and with this information i like a call and see where you are postflop, if he overbets you know where you are and if not you can take down a nice pot, but why risk them all preflop when there is a chance that he has a hand good enough to go to war with.

nicnicnic

cardshark202 wrote:

Preflop is an easy fold first time round. Calling is dumping chips away. I don't like the 4bet at all, most players never believe the flat-call 2bet, shove over 3bet line and will snap with TT

.


I cant put u on a real hand when you push and Richie's range is pretty small prob 1010+ Ak maybe AQ , so i really don't like your line in fact I find it a bit retarded

aidankk

I can see a reason for calling some of the time, i might do it against a passive player who im fairly sure will check when missing the flop, or a serial continuation bettor who will need a huge hand to call a post flop re raise..

But id generally do it against a poor passive player , not someone like sideshow bob, and i think there is no doubt i would fold to the raise in the big blind, it seems to small to be just a squeeze play..., he's surly got to have better than jacks here, to come over the top of 2 good players with such a small raise.. in fact id normally expect kk or aa with that raise...

But then what would i know im a calling station;)

caesars pal

lack of experience on and off the table but he wont learn much playing you or bob.did you win it.

Flipper

Result: He time banked for an age and unhappily called with JJ. Flop was TcQcKx and the blank club on the turn gave me a flush draw but I failed to suck out

bops

Flipper wrote:

Result: He time banked for an age and unhappily called with JJ. Flop was TcQcKx and the blank club on the turn gave me a flush draw but I failed to suck out

way too much stars for you

ul river waterford poker is rigged