Team for next irish match

croucher

Folks, what do you think the team for next match should be??? I reckon trimble, best and stringer should be left out. Stringer was just pure sloppy tonight, he is far too complacent about his place. The only thing is, O'sullivan will be looking to rest players

Dempsey
Murphy
O'Driscoll
Darcy
Hickie
O'Gara
Boss
Horan
Flannery
Hayes
O'Kelly
O'Connell
Easterby
Leamy
Best

Stev_o

Get rid of Easterby he's dead weight does absolutely nothing put on Quinlan and hope he does something. Id agree with you to take Horan off he's still convinced he's a winger!

imalegend

swap the football and rugby teams around and we might have a shout in both next week!!!

remus808

..Knee jerk? Sorry but fielding second choice players isn't going to make us any better. Ireland were bullied up front hence Stringer was ineffective. We know he's not good on the backfoot.

Trimble had a far better game than Hickie, why would we take him off? He was one of the only Irish players to shine in my opinion, he was been pretty good recentely, one of the only ones on form.

The scrum will fall apart if Horan is taken off. It's bad enough as it is. Although I was happy to see us get that penalty try.

O'Kelly is past it. Ok O'Callaghan is nothing special, but O'Kelly just isnt up to it.

I agree with Flannerys selection though, he's superior to Best.

Only a MADMAN would replace Wallace with Neil Best! By all means, take Easterby off, but by the love of god don't touch David Wallace, whether he had a quiet game today or not!

...my several cents

Marshy

I'd play Murphy at fullback, Dempsey was anonymous. Reddan at scrumhalf, Flannery starting at hooker.

Mal O'Kelly is over the hill I'm afraid and doesn't deserve his place in the squad even. Neil Best should replace Easterby also.

Darcy and Hickie both had nightmares but I dont think EOS will replace them.

croucher

i don't think Wallace is fit, I'd bring him on in the next match but wouldn't start him, his last competitive game was in May. The squad have gone through a copious amount of weight and conditioning work, maybe this is going to go against them. How many times did we not carry out the basics of the games, handling, supporting the tackled man quickly etc etc

trimble is just not up to performing at this level, he makes bad decisions, twice today he ran lines that put the team under pressure. The Fench lads will be fired up and I reckon he would be targetted. Ok, maybe Horgan will be back, but maybe not Iwould put my faith in Hickie and Dempsey on the wings with Murphy at full back, than a back three that contained trimble.

O'Callaghan is average at best, maybe O'Kelly is past it, would keep Easterby in the team, he is a good leader in the pack, does a lot of un-noticed ground work. It maybe a bit late to try new things, but maybe Easterby would be a better option than O'Callaghan or O'Kelly in the second row.

SpAcEd OuT

Stringer out, Boss in
Hickie out, Murphy in
Best out, Flannery in
Easterby out, Neil Best in
O'Callaghan out, Malcom O'Kelly in [make o'callaghan sweat a bit]

bleg

no major changes, not the way to go about it.

flannery should be starting every single match.
quinlan should be on the bench instead of best.
horgan on the wing, murphy on the bench providing cover for wings and FB, trimble on the bench providing cover for the centre, he is not pacey, he is not a winger, he's a powerful runner.

GuffFromSwine

Stev_o wrote:

Get rid of Easterby he's dead weight does absolutely nothing put on Quinlan and hope he does something. Id agree with you to take Horan off he's still convinced he's a winger!

Easterby is amazing.Your a rugby philistine.

il gatto

Reddan won't get a game. No link with O'Gara at all in match situation yet.
Neil Best is the biggest impact sub we have. Maybe he should replace someone with 30-35 min remaining. He's just pure aggression at rucks and in tackling. EOS doesn't give him long enough to make full impact. He did a job on Chabal when he came on in Croker.
Flannery should def start. Better thrower and far better ball carrier. Makes line breaks R. Best never would.
Horgan (if he's fit) to replace Hickie, and Hickie to come on with 30-35 to go.
Start Trimble and replace with Murphy.
I don't know why EOS leaves it so late to make replacements. Maybe he doesn't want to tinker too early, but it's a 22 man game, and you need your subs to make an impact, not rest someones legs for the last 5-10 min. I think bringing on the likes of Best, Murphy, Hickie and Quinlan at the 50-60 minute mark would be a huge boost in both power and attacking prowess, and would take a maybe flagging performance in a new direction.
It's all so obvious in my head. Why can't Eddie see it too.........

jameshayes

SpAcEd OuT wrote:

Stringer out, Boss in
Hickie out, Murphy in
Best out, Flannery in
Easterby out, Neil Best in
O'Callaghan out, Malcom O'Kelly in [make o'callaghan sweat a bit]

Hickie is a great player but last night he didn't perform(he was ill-could play better next sat)

Best is ok, he puts his heart in but we need a consistant performer..

Easterby didn't play well last night, but i think we should give him another chance next week..

IMO O'Callaghan is one of our best players, but he's like a bottle of cream 'shake before use'

RuggieBear

GuffFromSwine wrote:

Easterby is amazing.Your a rugby philistine.

attack post not poster.first and last warning

mikedragon32

O'Connell was quite subdued and imho didn't carry particularly well and seemed to lack agression. Perhaps give MO'K the start and let PO'C come on when big Mal gets knackered (after 20 minutes or so...)?

Boss for Stringer
Flannery for Best
Move Trimble to 11 and Horgan in at 14, Hickie on the bench.
Dempsey was shown up for pace last night, but I just don't trust Turnstiles Murphy at 15.

Easterbunny played well enough, he was committed in rucks and mauls, made crucial tackles and scored a try. I'd keep him in.

Hugh_C

croucher wrote:

Folks, what do you think the team for next match should be??? I reckon trimble, best and stringer should be left out.

Murphy
Horgan
O'Driscoll
Darcy
Hickie
O'Gara
Stringer
Horan
Flannery
Hayes
O'Callaghan
O'Connell
Easterby
Leamy
Best


And empty the bench at 60 mins onwards.

ollyk1

hughchal wrote:

Murphy
Horgan
O'Driscoll
Darcy
Hickie
O'Gara
Stringer
Horan
Flannery
Hayes
O'Callaghan
O'Connell
Easterby
Leamy
Wallace


And empty the bench at 60 mins onwards.

My only change to your team would be Wallace not because he's better than Best at the minute but because he needs the game time.

zAbbo

We've got to start with the strongest team available, Game time is needed especially with BOD, Wally and Horgan.

Dempsey
Horgan
O'Driscoll
Darcy
Hickie
O'Gara
Stringer
Horan
Flannery
Hayes
O'Callaghan
O'Connell
Best
Leamy
Wallace

Depending on the game, empty bench when the game is secured.

wingnut

A lot of people seem to have this reflex action where players should be substituted for having a bad game. I don't think that is going to help with markedly bad cohesion issue.

I think as most have pointed out Flannery for Best is a no brainer, unforgivable not throwing straight at RWC. If I were EOS and knowing Hickie was under the weather as he was I would have put Murphy on when Hickie got that knock.

Horgan on for Trimble no question but I think the boy didn't perform as badly as some are suggesting. Needs to watch his wing a hell of a lot better than he did though but should be used in some capacity from the bench when Horgan is fit. Easterby (did one commentator call him the invisible man?) was quiet but I would persist with him and use N Best earlier in the game if more agression was needed.

kevmy

zabbo wrote:

We've got to start with the strongest team available, Game time is needed especially with BOD, Wally and Horgan.

Dempsey
Horgan
O'Driscoll
Darcy
Hickie
O'Gara
Stringer
Horan
Flannery
Hayes
O'Callaghan
O'Connell
Best
Leamy
Wallace

Depending on the game, empty bench when the game is secured.

Exact team I would pick. I thought our rucking was poor yesterday. Surely thats Easterby's job, if we're not performing there he has to take blame. Wallace needs game time so he should play.
Flannnery's throwing is at least twice as good as Best's. We need our line-out to perform to it's best. Both Argentina and France looked dodgy there the last day. Jerry's darts should give us the edge there.
Horgan needs game time so he starts. AS mentioned before Trimble not a wing so Hickie plays (I'm putting his bad performance last night down to illness)
Stringer is playing end of. Eddie won't change and at this stage shouldn't. Anytime Boss has played with ROG he hasn't played well, no understanding between them. Reddan totally untried at this level so we can't just throw him in and hope for the best even if he is promising

Tim Robbins

mikedragon32 wrote:

Boss for Stringer.

Agreed. Stringer tried to tackle an amatuer Rugby player by taking off their jersey yesterday. Says it all.

wingnut

mikedragon32 wrote:

Boss for Stringer.

When Boss came into the side I thought he would become the number 1 choice after a couple of months. I think his decision making is his achilles heel though. Arguably brings more to the number 9 shirt but has cost Ireland in matches though bad (or less than 'optimum'] decisions.

ollyk1

Tim Robbins wrote:

Agreed. Stringer tried to tackle an amatuer Rugby player by taking off their jersey yesterday. Says it all.

Are you serious? It was a great tackle. He's brought down a huge guy by flipping him onto his back. The shirt trick is an old one and it was very well done. He also stopped about 3 rumbles of the back of the scrum by the no 8 and no 6 with some great judo like moves.

He was getting in close to these guys and showing very quick movement to unbalance them and bring them down all match long. For me his tackling was probably the only thing he did very well.

mikedragon32

Tim Robbins wrote:

Agreed. Stringer tried to tackle an amatuer Rugby player by taking off their jersey yesterday. Says it all.

Tackle made. No problem with that. Ball carrier was monstrous, Strings is tiny. By any means, job done.

I think I'd like to see Boss in because Strings lost his composure early in the game, doing his flappy arm thing from the third or fourth ruck on and got a warning from Jutge for it too. The quality of the ball from Strings to O'Gara, even allowing for the disruption by Namibia, was quite poor, giving ROG (if he could be replaced after his kicking from hand yesterday, he should be) little choice in what to do once he go the ball.

Agree about the decision making by Boss but he can only learn to make the right decisions by being in game situations.

Tim Robbins

ollyk1 wrote:

Are you serious? It was a great tackle. He's brought down a huge guy by flipping him onto his back. The shirt trick is an old one and it was very well done. He also stopped about 3 rumbles of the back of the scrum by the no 8 and no 6 with some great judo like moves.

He was getting in close to these guys and showing very quick movement to unbalance them and bring them down all match long. For me his tackling was probably the only thing he did very well.

Perhaps I am bit harsh, I just think Stringer is not physical enough for international Rugby. Simple as that. I'd go for Reddan / Boss any day.

Zambia

Leave the team as is , just teach them to catch.

Dodge

Tim Robbins wrote:

Perhaps I am bit harsh, I just think Stringer is not physical enough for international Rugby. Simple as that. I'd go for Reddan / Boss any day.

Stringer is excellent defensively. He's not perfect but he's better then Boss. Reddan might be an option but as pointed out he's 3rd in EOS's view so no real chance of him playing.

If Horgan's fit I'd play him ahead of Trimble and I'd play Murphy ahead of Hickie. Flannery for Best would be th eonly other change

jeawan

Dodge wrote:

Stringer is excellent defensively. He's not perfect but he's better then Boss. Reddan might be an option but as pointed out he's 3rd in EOS's view so no real chance of him playing.

If Horgan's fit I'd play him ahead of Trimble and I'd play Murphy ahead of Hickie. Flannery for Best would be th eonly other change

agreed , Stringer is a great tackler , problem with Boss is he drifts too much and is too slow to give the ball to the backs , O'kelly should not be even in the squad he is long passed it and just give away penalty's , Hickie was sick and should of be taken off yesterday , trimble isnt the fastest , but had an ok game yesterday , Horgan hopefully will be fit and will start with trimble in reserve , Major problem is the Whole team yesterday were asleep the whole game , if they are like that against France or Argentina we get hammered

Best should not be Hooker at all on this team he throwing is cat Flanery all the way there

wingnut

Reddan would only be an option if he had been substantially blooded before this campaign. He was on form at club level but this is a different ball game. I'd stick with Strings.

Agree with Mike about the flappy arms things, it doesn't impress any referee. Play the whistle and concentrate on making the most from each situation. You don't see the 9's on the Southern H teams complaining to the ref all the time, they just go about their business.

Luckycharm

Boss for Stringer- stringer used to have a quick pass but he does not even have that anymore, spends too much time flapping, offers no threat and given that ROG is not much threat either it means our Centres get suffocated!!
Flannery for Best
Quinlan for Easterby
Horgan for Trimble- cannot imagine Hickie being that bad 2 games running well hope not!

wingnut

Luckycharm wrote:

Quinlan for Easterby

Would be a good option. Quinlan needs game time and we need to see if he is up for this world cup.

kevmy

Luckycharm wrote:

Quinlan for Easterby

Agree here that it's an option worth considering

kevpants

Hickie was left on because if you take him off too early there's be questions around whether he was concussed (which he was) and that's a mandatory three week lay off. I think EOS thought we could win easily even with a lame winger (which we should have).

In fairness to him I thought Trimble was one of few players who at least showed the right kind of attitude to the game. Wasn't very effective but he was better than most.

I'm not a massive expert but does alot of the blame not lie with O'Gara? Surely he dictates the attacking play and when faced with the Namibians rushing up in defence he should have started pinging balls in over their heads and getting them running the wrong way? He just tried to get the backs to run everything. We have great running backs but if you just fling the ball out to them every time surely even the most inept opponent can be prepared for that?

I know everyone says if he gets injured our World cup is over but I think Paddy Wallace would have been capable of better than just flinging the ball out to Darcy EVERY SINGLE TIME. Maybe he's too comfortable in his position because there's no competition.

redmca

My team:
Leinster back 5, ROG, Boss,
Horan, Flannery, Hayes, POC, DOC, Best, Wallace, Leamy

After that dismal performance, changes are necessary if only for the Irish management to acknowledge what a shambles the performance was. Failure to do so is a message to the team that no matter how bad you play, you'll never be dropped.

On top of that, HORGAN must play if fit, WALLACE must play in order to get match fitness. A lot of people think NEIL BEST is a bit of a headline grabber, but he brings a very necessay ingredient - naked aggression - into the team, something that ("he does so much unseen useful work") Easterby fails to do.
Same can be said of FLANNERY in place of Rory Best.
A bit of "fire in the belly" (admittedly controlled) still has a place in the pro game.

Hickie clearly got a bad knock and should have been substituted at half time. He can and will play better next time.

Stringer has been suspect for some time now. BOSS should be given a start. Remember he was SH in Croke Park against England. Some people say his pass is slow, but at least there's a chance he may not pass, whereas Stringer will pass faster, but pass 99% of the time, so his speed is cancelled by his predictability.

Murphy is mercurial, and if we are to rack up a decent score, he must be brought in after 50 minutes, not after 82 minutes like yesterday.

RonBonJovi

Originally posted by redmca,"BOSS should be given a start. Remember he was SH in Croke Park against England"

Boss replaced Strings with about fifteen minutes to go

Tim Robbins

RonBonJovi wrote:

Originally posted by redmca,"BOSS should be given a start. Remember he was SH in Croke Park against England"

Boss replaced Strings with about fifteen minutes to go

and he scored a try when he came on. He also played very well the last time we played Oz, a game which he started. Also, he took his try very well against the Scots.

Stev_o

GuffFromSwine wrote:

Easterby is amazing.Your a rugby philistine.

Can you back up your statement? Something tell's me no.... I and many other Irish fans believe Easterby is a journey man. He's a No.6 that doesnt impose him self against the opposition so whats the point of having him then? Best 6's in the world are supposed to be the players that shake up opposition and offset them. Easterby does not do this. Best does.

pucan

wingnut wrote:

You don't see the 9's on the Southern H teams complaining to the ref all the time, they just go about their business.

Every seen George Gregan play?

Snickers Man

wingnut wrote:

You don't see the 9's on the Southern H teams complaining to the ref all the time, they just go about their business.

Ladies and gentlemen, we have a winner for the annual "Beverage through the nose" award for the above statement.

Clearly comes from somebody who has never seen George Gregan, Joost van der Westhuizen, Nick Farr Jones, Piri Weepu or a host of others back into the dawn of time play rugby.

EdgarAllenPoo

I don't know how refs over the years have resisted the urge to just tell Greegan to f**k off.
I know it's scrumhalf nature to be a mouthy little s~!te but the refs need to show some nuggets and tell players to shut up or bin them (as they're supposed to) for back chat.

mikedragon32

Dawson could be gobby at times too. But it's just the way Stringer flaps his arms like a two year old who's just been told he can't have a lollipop that fcuks me off.

EdgarAllenPoo

I noticed that too, maybe he likes doing impressions of Dustin.

AbusesToilets

Pretty scathing article by Gerry Thornley on the selection issue,i have to say i agree with him.i think that the way EOS is selecting the team,we're probably looking at a repeat of last time out


The Return of The Untouchables

Gerry Thornley in Bordeaux

RUGBY Ireland v Georgia: Form is temporary, selection is permanent? Eddie O'Sullivan has been wont to say "this is a form selection" over the last six years and 70 matches, but he could not justify such a comment yesterday when he unveiled his first-choice team to play Georgia this Saturday. In fact, this is a non-form selection, or, at any rate, a selection to find form.

All bar Shane Horgan, who returns from injury for his first game since May 11th, played against Namibia last Sunday, and a dozen of them played in that below-par and fortuitous win over the Italians in Ravenhill.

With the ultra-pressurised set-to with the French looming only six nights after the Georgia game, it is a gamble.

"It was a little bit influenced by the Namibia performance," the coach said. "It was such a bad performance that I think the team needs another game together. Had we hit the ground running on Sunday night, we might have had more wriggle room in terms of changing things."

Maintaining that the team has always repaid his confidence, O'Sullivan added: "If you create an environment where players feel that after one poor performance players are dumped on the trash heap, you don't create any confidence around that. You try to build confidence in a team.

"You can call it overreliance or over-loyal, I don't know, but that's the way I like to work it."

This makes some sense. but Ireland, for the time being, have lowered the bar. "Let's get out of the pool first," said O'Sullivan when asked if his frontline players could play five, six or seven games. "There's no point in planning for a quarter- or semi-final if we're not out of the pool."

Fair enough, and, drawn in the toughest group, their best chance of going where no Irish side before them has gone is by winning the pool of sharks.

But if the poor performances against Italy and Georgia have forced O'Sullivan's hand, this is in part the by-product of the preparation, tactics and mindset of the frontliners going into Ireland's World Cup opener.

So, Ireland are set to reprise the exact mistakes in selection policy of four years ago. For by O'Sullivan's own belated admission, drawing on the same core of players four years ago - including in the opening pool games against Romania and Namibia - ultimately caught up with the team in the resounding quarter-final defeat to France.

The lines clearly have been drawn. These are the 15 players (795 caps between them, an Irish record) who were excused duty in Argentina to be granted a longer pre-season. Suddenly, there is little or no mention of "the squad". The coach talks of the team, and so too do team members. This is clearly not good for competitiveness within the squad, a prerequisite of any team sport, not least in an ultra-intensive and protracted World Cup.

In adhering to his conservative instincts - as manifest through much of the last four years - O'Sullivan again made reference to this World Cup being akin to a Six Nations, and that the games are at least six days apart.

The difference is, of course, that Namibia and Georgia are hardly Scotland and Italy - even if Georgia's performance last night puts Saturday's game in sharper focus - and there are no built-in rest weeks.

Ideally, there should have been the "mix and match" selection policy that O'Sullivan outlined in August. Not only would such a strategy have made everyone for once feel he was a part of the odyssey, it would have kept the 15 untouchables on their toes.

O'Sullivan admitted that, ideally, he would like to have played everybody, "but if it doesn't work out, they have to take it on the chin. It's not easy on players because they're competitive and ambitious, and the trick is to keep them like that. But they're made of stern stuff."

Nevertheless, Alan Quinlan and the other six unused players must be tearing their hair out. For Frankie Sheahan, this is a familiar experience, as he was one of five players never named in the five match-day 22s four years ago. If he ever wants to get his hands on a World Cup Irish jersey, it looks as if he may as well go to Elverys.

Consider the treatment of Geordan Murphy, who has shown more form than Andrew Trimble or Girvan Dempsey in the warm-ups, yet was confined to a laughable 30 seconds last Sunday.

This World Cup is the culmination of four years' work and is the ultimate level playing field.

So it was that Australia and South Africa were building toward this tournament during their defeats in Dublin last November. By contrast, opportunities to develop the Irish squad on tours to South Africa, Japan, New Zealand and Australia, and autumn series at home, have not been used to the same extent.

Consider, too, the treatment of Eoin Reddan. Arguably the form scrumhalf in England and Europe over the last year, and with a European Cup medal to back it up, he had been confined to one cameo on the wing in eight selections over two years, before starting the second Test in Argentina. Why he's not even on the bench is a mystery.

There are still at least one or two big performances in this "team", but this has not been the best route to travel.
© 2007 The Irish Times