Starting new business

Dustpuppy

Hi all,
i am thinking about starting a new business in restore and repair of classic cars. Also parts, import and export of classic cars.
Do you think it makes sense? Or will people with classic cars do this for them self? Do you know other companies in Ireland specialized in this?
I need a lot of information.
It will not be something like repair and do normal work on the cars. We also want to make parts, that you can't get anymore, like exhaust and engine parts. It will be nothing for people with a Golf MK1 or cars not old enough. I am talking about realy old cars and realy professional work out, like most people only know from discovery channel.
Please, tell me, what you think about and what you are missing for what cars. All information will help me to find out, if it will go, or not.

Cheers

Dusty

junkyard

You need lots of money, time, patience and know how and even more patience. Been there, seen that, done that and I can honestly say only for my main car repair business I never made money from classics, people love to call and look at and talk classic cars but there's no money in talking about them. My advice is think long and hard before you go any further with this one.

mike65

You'd be taking on a lot. Do you have a machining/fabrication background and set-up already?

Mike.

maidhc

I don't see a market. There are plenty of engineering shops around already that can make pretty much what you ask them (at a price, may I add!), plenty of bodyshops that can do bodywork, and every tom dick and harry is bringing in classics from the UK already.

The impression I get is that the only way to make money from doing up cars is buying in modern damaged repairables and selling them on.

Abelloid

All the top VW restoration/parts/service companies I can think of were built on reputation, many started as home projects - finish your type3 first and take it from there.

Eric318

We have had these conversations on this forum already. Wanting to be everything for everybody is a fun prospect, but does it make financial sense? Make sure you do some number crunching before remortgaging your house...

Alfasudcrazy

I don't think there are that many 'really old' classics in Ireland anyway. The active market in Classic cars tends to move along about 20 or 30 years behind the modern mainstream motors. So in 10 years time some 90's cars will be classics etc.

I would love to have a classic bodywork specialist in Ireland. There are plenty in the UK though so the viability of your project would be primarily based on your competitiveness v's the UK restorers. That's going to be difficult to do in Ireland given the small market for such services.

My oldest car is a 1975 TR6 - would you consider that car too 'new'? Seems kinda strange to set a particular age range of cars to restore. Most body shops I know will not touch classic cars. The biggest problem is estimating the amount of work involved - as its usually a lot more than originally envisioned.:)

Dustpuppy

As you say, most shops don't do body work on classic cars. We do. If needed, we make a wing, if we can't get one. If someone has a classic car and he want it in good condition, he will spend money for good work. We are not doing work like little home garages. We are spending at the moment a lot of money in machines and equipment. The most important thing is, i think, that we do all work in one place. We do the bodywork, produce parts, get parts, do paint jobs, mechanics, engines and so on.

junkyard

There are easier ways of making money though, fine if you really really like what your doing, I'm just saying that it's a pretty thankless job and, like any business, it all boils down to pounds and pennies at the end of the day.

maidhc

Dustpuppy wrote:

If someone has a classic car and he want it in good condition, he will spend money for good work.

To a degree. Don't assume classic car owners have unlimited funds either!

FiSe

...and you are living in Ireland.

Nobody wants to spent money. If they decieded to splash few quid on restoration, there's always UK. It has something to do with local mentality I think...

Bud good luck with your venture

maidhc

FiSe wrote:

Nobody wants to spent money.

Well having a classic car is a luxury/hobby/pastime for most. I have about 3k to spend on my car over the next 4-6 months (needs a respray and some bodywork), but you can be sure I'll be trying to make it go as far as possible, by doing as much of the body work and prep work as I can myself.

--amadeus--

I'm a classic car nut but also a business consultant who has delivered a number of training programs to start up enterprises (not bragging, just explaining!)

Firstly, good luck with the project. It's brave and it sounds like you have already made some financial commitments so I hope it works out.

However I would strongly encourage you to do a great deal of market research before making a full commitment. My initial thoughts are teh same as those above - you seem to be targeting a very small set of customers with a very very wide set of services. Most companies that survive in this field seem to have a niche market that has been built on reputation over years. A new entrant with no back catalogue of work and claiming to be all things to all men will have a huge credibility problem. Don't forget that in this country it's not what you know it's who you know.

For example I need some bodywork doing on my Jag - nothing big, just some cosmetic bubbles. I know someone who has a bodyshop and has restored his own classic - no matter how good someone else claims to be or how comprehensive thier service offering I'll go to the guy I know. When I had the Porsche there was only one man allowed to touch the engine and that was Barry Wheelan, because he has years and years of experience with 911s. That mentality is common and is a tough one for a new business to overcome.

My second reservation is that there are already plenty of people offering those services over here, but quietly. For example I know of a guy who specialises in classic car restorations and produces beautiful work (Windmill motors). Through here and other contacts I know of marque specialists for servicing for Jags, VWs and Porsches and I am sure that there are people out there for any marque you care to name. Are you sure that there is space in the market for your offering? How are you going to differentate yourselves from the other people already there? Why should anyone use a new company rather than one who been around for 15 or 20 years? In other words what is your USP?

Finally I would strongly encourage you (if you haven't already) to go to as many shows as you can and do two things. First talk to the owners. Find out what they spend money on, thier budgets, areas they find difficult and so on. If you get a consistent pattern of answers then that is your business niche. Also though have a look at the cars on show. I was at a show in Limerick yesterday and there were several dozen cars there. There were probably a dozen escorts, several other Fords, a few MGs, a lot of VWs, a couple of "yank tanks", some Mercs. What there weren't were Ferrari's, Lambos, Bentleys or any great number of vintage (rather than classic) or high value cars. I would guess that the average value of the cars on show would have been in the 8 - 14K range. In other words cars bought, run and maintained on a budget by family men with other financial commitments.

I'm not saying that there aren't collectors out there who will spend a few grand on a custom piece of bodywork for thier classic. I'm saying that (in my opinion) they are a rarity and may not be there in sufficient numbers to form a business around. And if I am going to spend thousands on a custom part I am probably going to go to the UK and go to a marque specialist rather than a new entrant over here.

Apologies for seeming v negative but I do think that a lot of work needs to be done on market research and your business plan. If you haven't already then go to your local Enterprise Board - they may be able to offer help. Likewise talk to an Accountant - if you can twist what you do to make it sound like crafts rather than manufacturing then you can take advantage of tax loopholes. And see a couple of banks, they have all got starter packs full of good advice.

Regardless though good luck with it!

PaulK_CCI

Interesting topic indeed, and some excellent contributions from a lot of people, most of them hitting the nail on the head

I'm running Classic Cars Ireland since 1996, which I started when I noticed there was noone in the country dedicating themselves entirely to the Classic Car niche market of importing Classics. There wasn't a whole lot on the market here in Ireland and the Celtic Tiger had just about started to roar. So there was quite a bit of demand for new variety. Most people would automatically look at the UK, but I felt that with my Dutch background, where the Classic Car scene has always been extremely vivid since the early seventies(!!), I could offer more interesting cars for (sometimes) a better price but in most cases in better condition.

However, 11 years down the line, I still have not yet given up my day time job as a free-lance translator, as the market is fairly limited to depend entirely on the sales of classic cars. As mentioned a few times by a few other posters, the Irish market and 'punter' would generally like to get as much value for money as possible (which isn't neccesarily a bad thing really), and given the choice of a superb car in excellent condition and a cheaper, slightly rougher car in reasonable but still good enough shape, they would almost always go for the cheaper car. This in itself is nothing worrying, but it can sometimes happen that someone would still expect a certain level of perfection and that's where things can go pearshaped...
That is one of the reasons why over the years I have found myself steering away from the cheaper, rougher cars and focus mainly on better quality/condition cars from sources that I would trust and that has proved to be a happy combination.

This brings me to the next issue, that is also mentioned here, and that is the phenomenon that people would generally use someone who is recommended rather than someone they find in the papers. Ireland is one of the few countries, where people advertising in the Yellow Pages are generally considered to be best avoided, since the fact that they would actually NEED to advertise there, would be a sign that they are not getting enough custom, so something must not be right. If they were any good, they wouldn't have to advertise, since word-of-mouth would see them busy at all times . This will in my opinion be your hardest nut to crack: finding and attracting the people you are targetting. The owners of top-end, exclusive and vintage/veteran machinery tend to keep their collections behind very closed doors, and they would have their own established subnet of specialists that look after them, mostly closely linked to the UK.

However, to balance it out, I must commend you on trying to set up your business here, and I should stress that even though it will be a "long and winding road" to become established, QUALITY WORKMANSHIP will most certainly be recognised in this country, because even though everyone says that they will go to the UK for custom made stuff, I am quite sure that people would rather stay in Ireland if there were to be a suitable place to go to. To conclude, I know of a couple of people who have set up a business in the niche classic car servicing/maintenance/repair business, and they are well and truly swamped with work! So it's not all doom and gloom

Western Cruiser

I seem to remember from my college days some 20 years ago that there was a chap up near Parnell Square who specialised in restoring and maintaining Jags, and Astons.

He seemed to be doing ok at the time.

I do agree with the point about such a shop nearly becoming a drop-in talking shop. Very difficult to run a business with all sorts (like me back then)calling in unannounced to ogle the patients !

Kevin_Herron

You'd be referring there to John C.Scahill, amazing he's still there.
He's been in that lane since 1962!!
And specialises in Jaguar, Daimler and Aston Martins.

Traumadoc

Dustpuppy serviced my 911 this week-I was very pleased , will be getting some more work done with him in the future.

flat6

Dustpuppy?

Traumadoc wrote:

Dustpuppy serviced my 911 this week-I was very pleased , will be getting some more work done with him in the future.

Traumadoc

See the OP.