Comedy Value - how bad was my play?

CaptainNemo · 07-09-2007 12:47pm #1

1st level of the monthly €200 freezeout in the Macau. Starting stacks are 8000, blinds are 25-50. It's the 5th hand of the tournament and I have played all 4 of the previous hands (88 1st hand, 66 2nd hand, A5d in the BB third hand, 45s in the SB 4th hand). I had to fold all 4 hands post flop and am down to 7000 chips.

Psychological context: I have had about 8 hours sleep in the last 3 nights put together. I have had too much coffee.

UTG raises to 150 and there are 6 callers. I am on the button with J7 offsuit.

I call! The SB raises to 600. I am putting him on a range of AK, QQ+. There are 6 callers (this is the Macau). SB says "What does it take to get people off a hand here?"

I call! The flop is JT8 rainbow. SB bets 2200. Everyone folds around to me.

Action?

Remember I said that I was posting this hand for comedy value. I know that the "correct" play is "fold for 150, fold for 600, fold for 2200, WTF is wrong with you". I'm just interested to know if anyone else would play a hand very loose like this in the 1st level of a tournament, and what they would do on the flop here.

Mr.Plough · 07-09-2007 1:15pm

i fold everywhere. cant see you beating anything here

Tar.Aldarion · 07-09-2007 1:24pm

You can shove if you want...

Requiem4adream · 07-09-2007 1:26pm

In the spirit you asked the question.......If you're really really tired and in the "ah sure why not" mood, shove. calling is out of the equation and seems to me you're in the "when in rome" frame of mind. if you're lucky you might have outs, if you're extremely lucky he might stack you with KQ or AK that misses. He should turn over a hand that has you by the balls, but at least you can hit the hay and get some zzzzzzz's!!!!

Realistically you know yourself how this hand should be played

if you're asking do any or many players play this hand or type of hand this way early in a deep stacked game, extremely unlikely!!!!

CaptainNemo · 07-09-2007 1:29pm

I was thinking "I'm ahead of AK, and if he has KK or AA then I have 9 outs". Worst case scenario was QQ when I would only have 5 outs.

I would normally fold this at every point in the hand but like I said, given my amount of sleep and coffee I may as well have been on crack.

However the reason I'm posting it is I have seen a few tournament players with extremely good results play very strange hands like this in the first couple of levels with the intention of doubling up or busting out early. A double up allows them to bully the table and accumulate chips and is a good way to push for the big prize money. I played this way in a smaller tournament recently and won it (I was hitting great cards though).

LuckyLloyd · 07-09-2007 1:30pm

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Captain Tom · 07-09-2007 1:33pm

lmao 6 people call 12xbb and then they all miss a JT8 flop. gotta love the macau.

Flushdraw · 07-09-2007 1:36pm

J7 is one of the worst hands in the deck. i've never ever calling here for value no matter what stage it is in a tournament. I play a bit looser than most but this hand is never in my calling range. Even if the flop came JJx, i still wouldnt be confident of being ahead.

UTG raised preflop indicating strength, he got a hatful of callers, SB 3bets and he only flat calls. This takes away all the top range hands and leaves mediocre pairs, maybe suited broadway in his range now.

He then leads for 2200 into 4800 pot and everyone folds back to you. He has 88s, J10s or KQs. Do you really want to be sitting in the bar saying you got knocked out with J7 on a J high flop?

LuckyLloyd · 07-09-2007 1:37pm

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Requiem4adream · 07-09-2007 1:40pm

LuckyLloyd wrote:

You'll find some who do when playing live tournaments. "Ah shur, there's value - I have ta call!!". And they would CALL the 2200. Seriously.

lol pretty much the reason i never leave my pc to play live!! any time i venture into any live tourny in dublin i run into these guys and lose. actually the only live tourny i tried this year was the Irish Open M.E. and even there i ran into 1 of these guys (got it all in with TT on a 9 6 3 flop v 7 9o in the 1st 2 levels. lost obv!)

CaptainNemo · 07-09-2007 1:40pm

Flushdraw wrote:

J7 is one of the worst hands in the deck. i've never ever calling here for value no matter what stage it is in a tournament. I play a bit looser than most but this hand is never in my calling range. Even if the flop came JJx, i still wouldnt be confident of being ahead.

UTG raised preflop indicating strength, he got a hatful of callers, SB 3bets and he only flat calls. This takes away all the top range hands and leaves mediocre pairs, maybe suited broadway in his range now.

He then leads for 2200 into 4800 pot and everyone folds back to you. He has 88s, J10s or KQs. Do you really want to be sitting in the bar saying you got knocked out with J7 on a J high flop?

Sorry, I've edited the original post. It was the SB (original raiser) that led out on the flop for 2200, UTG and everyone else folded around to me.

LuckyLloyd · 07-09-2007 1:42pm

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CaptainNemo · 07-09-2007 2:02pm

The end result was that I shipped it in after about 5 seconds thought. The SB thought for about 5 seconds and then said "Go on, I'll call. Do you have a straight?"

I somehow failed to hit any of my 5 outs against his QQ and his terrible call was rewarded with a double up

I AM THE VALUE

On the upside, I slept for 11 hours last night and feel fantastic and will be playing ALERT poker this weekend in the SE...

mrflash · 07-09-2007 2:11pm

I mix up my early game, i think you should play very loose in the early going in some tourneys, it all depends on the table, but if you arrive at a table of donks and newbies which does still happen, you will find some of them calling your all in bet when you hit a str8, trips, 2 pair on the flop with nothing but an ak, aq or some other nothingness.

ollyk1 · 07-09-2007 2:11pm

CaptainNemo wrote:

However the reason I'm posting it is I have seen a few tournament players with extremely good results play very strange hands like this in the first couple of levels with the intention of doubling up or busting out early. A double up allows them to bully the table and accumulate chips and is a good way to push for the big prize money. I played this way in a smaller tournament recently and won it (I was hitting great cards though).

I hear this sh1te all the time. It's absolute nonsense.

The value of chips in a tournie is not linear.

A bad player gambling with the worst of it generally doesn't know how to play good big stack poker and more often then not ends up spewing chips in the middle stages of a tournament. Thank God they occasionally get lucky as it keeps them coming back. Can you honestly say in the mental state you were in that you would have commnced playing some good big stack poker if you'd sucked out in this hand?

Your mistake was entering the tournie by the sounds of it Nemo. Everything else followed from that decision.

CaptainNemo · 07-09-2007 2:16pm

ollyk1 wrote:

I hear this sh1te all the time. It's absolute nonsense.

The value of chips in a tournie is not linear.

A bad player gambling with the worst of it generally doesn't know how to play good big stack poker and more often then not ends up spewing chips in the middle stages of a tournament. Thank God they occasionally get lucky as it keeps them coming back. Can you honestly say in the mental state you were in that you would have commnced playing some good big stack poker if you'd sucked out in this hand?

Your mistake was entering the tournie by the sounds of it Nemo. Everything else followed from that decision.

I'd already paid for the entry :rolleyes: I really was almost feeling relieved on the way home. In this tournament you don't usually get down to the prize money until 2am at the earliest and I would have been comatose.

Comedy Value - how bad was my play?

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