Planet Ireland

eoin5

Is it just me or does anyone else think too many Irish people tend to live on planet Ireland and are a bit ignorant when it comes to foreign affairs.

If I try to talk to Irish people about the Arab or the African world many of them just joke and say stuff like: "Ah sure its the heat out there, thats why theyre all mad". Its seems like their way of getting around that they dont know, or care, or have time to care much about those issues.

Another thing I've noticed is that many of the people who have some interest in politics tend to form stubborn opinions on foreign affairs based on what they see on the six-one, and its hard to get a sense of historical context from that.

Is it too boring or what? I'd put money on that more Irish people know whos coming first in Serie A than can name the president of Italy.

Its a pity, we should be interested...

Right?

Dirk Gently

People give the Americans stick about the same thing but I agree, there is a bit of a planet Ireland thing going on, not necessarily as lacking in geographical knowledge but certainly in political / current affairs.

I genuinely feel surprised whenever I have a half decent conversation with someone about such things as it's a very rare I get the opportunity. Luckily I work with two lads who are very knowledgeable and we talk about all sorts but generally I find myself turning to teh intraweb for such interaction.

Dont be at yourself

People can be well-informed and aware of international situations without feeling the need to share their views with others.

I'm currently working abroad with people from all over the world, and the amount of no-nothing Americans (mostly) blabbing on like they know everything about everything does my head in. That's not really the Irish way, thankfully.

Don't mistake silence for ignorance!

bringitdown

Are you expecting people to digest every little thing in the the world? Where do you draw the line about what is 'important' to know?

I agree with NekkidBibleMan ...

Seriously amongst my peers I think they are all well informed, and interested but we don't make a point of discussing such 'interesting' things too often it just doesn't come up. Do you swing a convesation about the potential absense of BOD from the squad to 'So how do you feel about the situation in the Ivory Coast'?

Its all relative, we are grand Ted, whaaaaaaayyy.

eoin5

NekkidBibleMan wrote:

Don't mistake silence for ignorance!

Good point, I guess its not the Irish thing to do. Maybe thats the real problem. I think that discussing these issues with other people is one of the best ways of learning about them.

bringitdown wrote:

Are you expecting people to digest every little thing in the the world? Where do you draw the line about what is 'important' to know?

I'm not saying that theres a line to be drawn but I've met quite a lot of people with completely immovable views on the world purely based on the rte news/Hearld AM/Gerry Ryan etc. Its impossible to discuss anything with these people. For instance one person I know has this view that all terrorists are evil and should be shot, but if I say maybe we should consider how people become terrorists before we pass judgement he says it doesnt matter they still deserve to be shot for being terrorists. I guess for him its a handy way out of having to actually learn anything. Its not much different for the person who cracks a joke like the one I mentioned in the first post. Shouldnt we at least be up for learning about the world by discussing it?

Whats your peer group bringitdown? Like you I'd have to say most of my peers have a clue but I'm just out of college. Forty something 9-5ers are a different story.

silverharp

Given that we are a neutral country and a minnow on the world stage, there would be a natural tendency to have a slightly detached view of foreign affairs. Compare us to the US where people seem to be more ignorant even though they have family that are potentially at risk.

Should we be interested? Most major media give a very superficial view of what goes on in the world and why, to get to the next level of understanding requires a lot of research and time and why should most people be inclined to do this if they have no professional or financial involvement.

sovtek

Being from America I can relate to this one. I have met many Europeans who are generally politically aware as well as foreign affairs. Americans usually get the "schtick" for being ignorant/arrogant but I have to say that I find that increasingly the irish aren't much better.
I actually had an old housemate that banned political discussions at parties because "its boring".
A mate from Galway just rolls his eyes when my kiwi friend and I start on about world affairs at the pub.
Contrast that with my various Continental Europeans friends they are more likely to turn to politics wherever they socialize than say...whose on Big Brother or what Brad Pitt and Angelina Jolie are doing.
I've also found that there is an increasing arrogance here...which reminds me of a lot of Americans I know back home... the "best country in world" thing is starting to creep in my opinion (not to mention the "get all the foreigners out" thing).
At least in America we have a bit of an excuse. Our media is seriously skewed and insular and being a large country many people would never venture outside its borders.

sovtek

silverharp wrote:

Most major media give a very superficial view of what goes on in the world and why, to get to the next level of understanding requires a lot of research and time and why should most people be inclined to do this if they have no professional or financial involvement.

Because a democracy only works when everyone participates. Otherwise you have what you have now.

silverharp

sovtek wrote:

Because a democracy only works when everyone participates. Otherwise you have what you have now.

What does “when everyone participates” mean. A democracy in some idealistic sense would be one where people are more responsible for their own affairs and there is less top down management from above. The structures of this state and most EU states are highly centralised and unaccountable to the people. As long as the state tries/pretends to run a cradle to grave society then I can’t see how any change would occur.

Jackie laughlin

There are many models of democracy/citizenship. Some emphasise citizen participation in current debates.

sovtek

silverharp wrote:

What does “when everyone participates” mean. A democracy in some idealistic sense would be one where people are more responsible for their own affairs and there is less top down management from above.

A system where most of the population is actively involved in the political process would have less top down management.

The structures of this state and most EU states are highly centralised and unaccountable to the people. As long as the state tries/pretends to run a cradle to grave society then I can’t see how any change would occur.

The same could be said of most governments in the "first world".
Change occurs when people actively participate in their community and don't leave it for someone else.

silverharp

sovtek wrote:

The same could be said of most governments in the "first world".
Change occurs when people actively participate in their community and don't leave it for someone else.

I agree, but the present system will only change when this system breaks. We are too far down the bread and circuses road to turn back.

sovtek

silverharp wrote:

I agree, but the present system will only change when this system breaks. We are too far down the bread and circuses road to turn back.

You may be right... Personally I refuse to give up and am not waiting that long. OT I suppose.

fly_agaric

eoin5 wrote:

If I try to talk to Irish people about the Arab or the African world many of them just joke and say stuff like: "Ah sure its the heat out there, thats why theyre all mad".

Generaly people who want to start working the various problems of Arabs and Africans into everyday chit-chat have a specific axe to grind so could the poor victims you inflict this on just be trying to stay on your good side by steering the boat into safer converstional waters? (i.e. make a silly joke and spout out some nonsense before they can give an opinion which pushes the wrong buttons...)

eoin5

fly_agaric wrote:

Generaly people who want to start working the various problems of Arabs and Africans into everyday chit-chat have a specific axe to grind so could the poor victims you inflict this on just be trying to stay on your good side by steering the boat into safer converstional waters? (i.e. make a silly joke and spout out some nonsense before they can give an opinion which pushes the wrong buttons...)

Usually you can spot those axe grinders a mile away: "Hey, nice weather. What do you think of Israel?". Well thats a bit over-dramatic but its not far off.

I think we can have good discussions though without much risk of insulting each other. Lets say theres a bombing somewhere outside Ireland on the news and two people are watching it. If both people have an interest in it they may talk about it. If one person knows a bit about it and the other doesnt its an opportunity for the other person to learn a bit. Irish people (that I know of) dont tend to do that much, and especially not for foreign affairs.

fly_agaric

eoin5 wrote:

I think we can have good discussions though without much risk of insulting each other.

I'd agree. I admit that I'm pretty wary of entering into ("real-life") discussions about politics (especially about what is going on in the wider world beyond Ireland) until I know people quite well. I suppose that could come across as apathy or ignorance sometimes. I generalise here, but I think alot of Irish people would be quite cagy in this way.
I also know some people who've decided they will just totally ignore foriegn affairs and stonewall attempts at discussion because it depresses them.

eoi8n5 wrote:

Lets say theres a bombing somewhere outside Ireland on the news and two people are watching it. If both people have an interest in it they may talk about it. If one person knows a bit about it and the other doesnt its an opportunity for the other person to learn a bit. Irish people (that I know of) dont tend to do that much, and especially not for foreign affairs.

Yes, with some it could be apathy due to either boredom (can be a sort of intellectual reverse-snobbery - only dry, preachy, uptight arséholes discuss politics!) or insularity.
I suppose if the UK/US are like this and people would much rather have a discussion about celebrities or whatever it wouldn't be a shock if Ireland is starting to ape its main role-models in this respect.

Sand

Irish people are no more or less ignorant about current affairs than any other people in the world - but that doesnt say a lot tbh. Whatever STD Paris Hilton has picked up recently tends to be more topical than anything that gets reported in broadsheets. Your average person will not know or care about events that dont directly affect them or whatever celebrity theyre interested in.

That said, I do tend to avoid chatting politics/views down the pub as too often you find yourself chewing your tongue whilst a good friend talks ****e.

leninbenjamin

you could say the same thing about any other nationality.... every country has its fair share of scholars, sh*te talkers and those who just dont give a f*ck or want to.

DadaKopf

eoin5 wrote:

Is it just me or does anyone else think too many Irish people tend to live on planet Ireland and are a bit ignorant when it comes to foreign affairs.

If I try to talk to Irish people about the Arab or the African world many of them just joke and say stuff like: "Ah sure its the heat out there, thats why theyre all mad". Its seems like their way of getting around that they dont know, or care, or have time to care much about those issues.

Another thing I've noticed is that many of the people who have some interest in politics tend to form stubborn opinions on foreign affairs based on what they see on the six-one, and its hard to get a sense of historical context from that.

Is it too boring or what? I'd put money on that more Irish people know whos coming first in Serie A than can name the president of Italy.

Its a pity, we should be interested...

Right?

I'd say it's not fair to generalise unless you have some research to back up the statement.

But IF (and only if) all Irish people were getting most of their information about the wider world from Six-One, then we're in trouble as it's one of the laziest newsrooms in the world ever.

Luckily, we have other decent enough sources of news and current affairs. And, in the end, what leninbenjamin said.

nesf

DadaKopf wrote:

But IF (and only if) all Irish people were getting most of their information about the wider world from Six-One, then we're in trouble as it's one of the laziest newsrooms in the world ever.

+1

Actually to be honest, most of the people I've met who like to think they "know a lot" about foreign affairs don't know much. They tend to have a certain degree of awareness about a certain niche in foreign affairs and be fairly ignorant of the rest. Similar to politics in general tbh.

Edit:

I'm really not sure that it's a valid criticism of people to be honest. You can make an argument for people being at least partially aware of their country's politics and issues but foreign affairs are a bit like science in that it's kind of like a republic. We have specialists like physicists so your average person doesn't have to in a sense.

mickoneill30

I don't think Irish people are any more ignorant about world affairs than most other countries. There are a lot of ignorant people but no more than anywhere else. I've lived in Australia and I'd say the people who could talk more about what was going on in the world were the Irish people I met.

However, on coming back home I noticed that generally there's a large proportion of people who have no interest in anything more than the price of a pint or the price of a house and who think all the foreigners are taking our jobs (you get these people in every country).

If you travel you'll tend to have friends with similar interests so they'll know more about the world. I think it's the people that don't travel (not all of them of course) that think the grass is greener in any country but Ireland, think everythings a rip off and don't have much of an idea about politics in different countries.

edanto

I wouldn't know about the average person - dunno how you're supposed to measure these things - , but if the content of the most popular newspapers is anything to go by, then the level of contextualised understanding of world affairs is embarassingly low.

Me, well, I'm interested in all that politics stuff, so I go out of my way to find out what I can.

In a shamless plug, if anyone's interested in finding a place that they can learn about world affairs from an expert and then talk about it for an hour or so with a group of about 20 people - then click through my sig link to the Suas site.

sovtek

mickoneill30 wrote:

If you travel you'll tend to have friends with similar interests so they'll know more about the world. I think it's the people that don't travel (not all of them of course) that think the grass is greener in any country but Ireland, think everythings a rip off and don't have much of an idea about politics in different countries.

Strangely I found the opposite of people in Ireland that don't travel. They think it's the best country in the world and not a rip off. I find that it's the people that have traveled that realize how the standard of living is much better in other parts of Europe (and other parts of the world) compared to Ireland and realize how much they are being ripped off by the government of Ireland and those that control capital in this country.

eoin5

nesf wrote:

I'm really not sure that it's a valid criticism of people to be honest. You can make an argument for people being at least partially aware of their country's politics and issues but foreign affairs are a bit like science in that it's kind of like a republic. We have specialists like physicists so your average person doesn't have to in a sense.

I think people should try to know whats going on in the big bad world. If you consider that our foreign affairs experts are able to implicate us in a war then theres a definite advantage for having better public knowledge of foreign affairs.

mickoneill30

sovtek wrote:

Strangely I found the opposite of people in Ireland that don't travel. They think it's the best country in the world and not a rip off. I find that it's the people that have traveled that realize how the standard of living is much better in other parts of Europe (and other parts of the world) compared to Ireland and realize how much they are being ripped off by the government of Ireland and those that control capital in this country.

Do you mean travel for holidays or travel for living. Travel for holidays always shows you the best of a country. If you live there for a year or two and work the local jobs and get the local pay suddenly Ireland doesn't seem too bad.

I lived in Sydney for 5 years. I was working with a group of reasonably well paid (for Sydney) people who had to live far from where they wanted because of house prices, had commutes of up to two hours to get to work, had a city that was frequently gridlocked and had a public transport system that was great when it worked but frequently didn't. Their politicians were idiots too. Sound familiar? The weather was ALWAYS better though. If you go there for a holiday all you'll really find out about is the weather and the beaches and how everything is cheap (for an Irish person)

sovtek

mickoneill30 wrote:

Do you mean travel for holidays or travel for living. Travel for holidays always shows you the best of a country. If you live there for a year or two and work the local jobs and get the local pay suddenly Ireland doesn't seem too bad.

I lived in Sydney for 5 years. I was working with a group of reasonably well paid (for Sydney) people who had to live far from where they wanted because of house prices, had commutes of up to two hours to get to work, had a city that was frequently gridlocked and had a public transport system that was great when it worked but frequently didn't. Their politicians were idiots too. Sound familiar? The weather was ALWAYS better though. If you go there for a holiday all you'll really find out about is the weather and the beaches and how everything is cheap (for an Irish person)

I wasn't talking about people that go to Ibiza for a week every year.
That description of Sydney sounds a lot like Dublin actually(bar the great transport system). Politicians here aren't just idiots...they are seriously corrupt idiots.

moe_sizlak

what are we discussing here , whether or not irish people are as politically aware as other nationalities , id say were above average , were a small country and small countries tend to look outwards plus the irish are scattered to the 4 corners of the world and have ties with many countries
compared to americans , irish people also get to hear different sides of political issues the world over , we get the bbc which is the best news org in the world , the usa gets fox news who baschially tells ameircans , anything america say or do = good , anyone who dont agree with america = bad

djpbarry

First of all, I don't think there's much point in comparing us to other nations - I think that's something we do far too much of in this country.
Secondly, I find it far more worrying that so many people in this country have absolutely no interest in politics whatsoever, be it Irish or international. I know of a number of people who did not vote in the last election - democracy only works when everyone participates. Yes, it does take time and effort and sometimes research is needed to form your own opinion on something, be it immigration (something that a lot of Irish people seriously need to research), climate change, international trade or military conflict. But these are serious issues that affect every one of us, so I believe that we all have a duty to educate ourselves on these matters, rather than jumping on the latest media bandwagon.

moe_sizlak

djpbarry wrote:

First of all, I don't think there's much point in comparing us to other nations - I think that's something we do far too much of in this country.
Secondly, I find it far more worrying that so many people in this country have absolutely no interest in politics whatsoever, be it Irish or international. I know of a number of people who did not vote in the last election - democracy only works when everyone participates. Yes, it does take time and effort and sometimes research is needed to form your own opinion on something, be it immigration (something that a lot of Irish people seriously need to research), climate change, international trade or military conflict. But these are serious issues that affect every one of us, so I believe that we all have a duty to educate ourselves on these matters, rather than jumping on the latest media bandwagon.

i myself have little time for those who say they cannot be bothered to vote
i always vote but my number one issue does not see to be a priority for the present goverment , public sector inneficency