How much do programers make?

Strange_Fruit

Im doing a comp sci degree,and im just wondering wether to follow through with programming.How much is the salary etc

thanks

forbairt

Strange_Fruit wrote:

Im doing a comp sci degree,and im just wondering wether to follow through with programming.How much is the salary etc

thanks

depending ... 20k - 200k ... it all depends ... who you're working for .. your experience ... contracting or not .. and so on ...

Strange_Fruit

so say....i just come out of my degree,on the average salary how much would be making

Smellyirishman

Low 20s.

Strange_Fruit

:eek:

L'prof

Smellyirishman wrote:

Low 20s.

Really? I work weekends and am doing a Computer Degree at the moment too but, if I quit my course and went back full-time where I'm working I could get 29 + overtime!

Ginger

As above it depends...

I just had a few interviews in Norway and based on my experience and what I would be doing, the offers ranged from 75K to 150K. The higher end was doing mainly contracting and you may not always get that.

Depends on the market requirements how niche your market is and what you skills are.

Supply & demand is what its all about

Smellyirishman

jasonorr wrote:

Really?

Maybe not, I guess you're looking at between 20-30.

Ginger

jasonorr wrote:

Really? I work weekends and am doing a Computer Degree at the moment too but, if I quit my course and went back full-time where I'm working I could get 29 + overtime!

What are you skills?? Easier to work out.. plus if you do a graduate placement you will probably start at 25/26 +/- 5K depending on the company and location

CelloPoint

The reality of the software jobs merri-go-round in Ireland is: you'd be better off driving a taxi.

L'prof

CelloPoint wrote:

The reality of the software jobs merri-go-round in Ireland is: you'd be better off driving a taxi.

Nobody is better off driving a taxi!!!

Call Me Jimmy

If ye get lucky and come up with an idea or write a piece of software ye could make millions/billions!

CuLT

A Degree gets you the interview, your experience gets you your salary.

I understand that as a wet-eared graduate Accenture will contract you as a Java developer for ~€30,000, but I hear it's hell.

While doing your degree you'll want to be learning everything you can around your coursework to make you employable, and if possible get part time or a few contracts for small web-based jobs (or better yet for an actual software company, though it's unlikely), which will allow you to say you've several years professional experience along with your degree.

Simple answer: no computing degree magically grants you lots of money instantly. It does allow you to open doors that might otherwise be closed though.

jon1981

in my experience, software consultants, analysts and the services sector get paid better in Ireland than coders. im sure many will disagree with me, but thats just based on my experience from jobs ive done

ravydavygravy

The only guarantees for good salary are skills and experience. I'd say you'd easily find a graduate job for 24k, but to get good salary increases, you need to be good at what you do. the it sector has an abundance of crap it people - it can be very hard to get good recruits.

warrenaldo

I finished my CS Degree in 2004. I went into programming C/C++/Java for a medium size software development company. They started me on 24k basic with benefits. Which was OK - compared to others in the class (in different areas of IT) also it was above average. Most were around 22k.
However after a year i had got enough experience to bump up to 30k basic. Which aint too bad.

Trampas

To the OP.

What language(s) are you doing?

Pepare to be on low wages for a couple of years but as soon as you get to the thrid year you can start expect your salary to start edging towards the normal

Evil Phil

jasonorr wrote:

Really? I work weekends and am doing a Computer Degree at the moment too but, if I quit my course and went back full-time where I'm working I could get 29 + overtime!

went back full-time

Sorry folks but graduates are next to useless when it comes to working. Any kind of full time work experience (particularly dev work) is going to push your starting salary up.

seamus

In most areas of IT, there are really two avenues you can start your career on:
1. The "normal" company route
2. The "profit driven" company route.

Number 1 pays less, but provides good experience, a fairly relaxed environment and a pretty stable team. Your salary jumps are fair - you could be five years working before you hit €35k.
Number 2 works your ass off, in the same way that trainee solicitors and accountants get the ass worked off them. You get more money, but are encouraged to not claim all of your overtime, your day is heavily monitored and regimented and there's relatively high turnover in your team. Provided that you comply and work your ass off, salary jumps can be huge. You can be on €50k in five years, but you won't have had much of a life for those five years.

um7y1h83ge06nx

What do people think of my salary? I'm curious.

I graduated 2 years ago with a 1.1 in Computer Engineering from UL.

In my job I have coded Assembly and C/C++ for embedded apps such as MP3 players, mobile phones etc.

Written App software on the PC in VB. Also done API stuff and written my own ActiveX controls.

Currently I'm doing a site that will be used site wide and many at different company locations worldwide. It's based on a LAMP (Linux-Apache-MySql-Php) setup and I'm about to write a Java applet fro it as well.

Currently I'm on €32k.

And also, do you think I'm getting good experience?

Thanks

qwytre

A graduate would typical start on about 25-26k. That goes up to 30k in year 2. After that its what you make it. Quite often the best thing to do after year 2 is to move companies, most companies wont up your salary from 30 to mid 40's in year 3 so if you move to a new company you are more likely to get that jump.

If you keep learning, keep getting extra certifications you will be on 50k in year 5 and up to 60k in year 6-7. After that you have the potential to go to about a max of 65k -70k as a progammer.

You then need to either go into team leadership or something very specialised. Senior Technical Leads have an earning potential of 100k but thats the top end for 10 year experience.

After that you need to look to go into "Head of Development" or "CTO" type roles where you are looking at 120k-160k basic plus bonus\Shares etc

So there is good career path in IT if you want it. No one will had it to you.

Also be careful on what your first job is, make sure its the area you want to work in. You need to start building your experience in your chosen area from the start, dont just take any IT job for the sake of getting into IT.

easyontheeye

the code monkeys will never make the real money...its in requirements gathering, consulting, technical sales, supporting legacy operational scripts...they type stuff. its disapointing because i find coding more challenging..but the money just aint there, im on at least 20k more than any of my peers that graduated 2 years ago and who are coding.

warrenaldo

I dont think 32k after 2 years is that good although its not that bad. Its probably a tadon the low side. But it really depends on what your doing, how good you are - and mainly how valuable you are to the company. Anyone can write a couple of lines on their area of work to make them sound fantastic. Compare yourself to jobs on the net

qwytre

I would also say that Analysts get well paid, more than programmers. Avoid Tech Support and Testing (QA) jobs, they are usually on the lower end in terms of salaries.

qwytre

warrenaldo wrote:

I dont think 32k after 2 years is that good although its not that bad. Its probably a tadon the low side. But it really depends on what your doing, how good you are - and mainly how valuable you are to the company. Anyone can write a couple of lines on their area of work to make them sound fantastic. Compare yourself to jobs on the net

Yeah 32k in year 2 isn't great money but you need to think year 5 and beyond.

easyontheeye

qwytre wrote:

I would also say that Analysts get well paid, more than programmers. Avoid Tech Support and Testing (QA) jobs, they are usually on the lower end in terms of salaries.

i agree as thats what i do, im an analyst and although my work is interesting i can never understand why we get paid more than coders?! although lately alot of the coding has moved to India...

qwytre

easyontheeye wrote:

i agree as thats what i do, im an analyst and although my work is interesting i can never understand why we get paid more than coders?! although lately alot of the coding has moved to India...

There is a simple reason why analysts get paid more, its costs the company more to fix problems after they are coded into a product rather than if the problems were identified at requirements stage.

So Analysts need to be highly skilled in their skill domain. In a way programmers usually follow the instructions from the results from the analysis stage.

So it also follows that testers and QA get paid less because they are at the other end of the project life cycle and it costs way more to fix things identified at the testing phase. So get really good analysts on board and you reduce the possibility of costly re-writes or bug fixes. Therefore the demand for good analysts is high and with high demand comes high salaries.

Kernel32

Regardless of being a pure coder, consultant, project manager or what ever. In the tech industry if you are

1. Very good at what you do.
2. Interested in what you do.
3. Flexible in what you do.
4. Professional at all times.
5. Have a certain level of people skills.

You will make good money. It might take 2 years or 5 years, but you will eventually find that sweet spot and the money will come.

lukin

CuLT wrote:

A Degree gets you the interview, your experience gets you your salary.

I understand that as a wet-eared graduate Accenture will contract you as a Java developer for ~€30,000, but I hear it's hell.

While doing your degree you'll want to be learning everything you can around your coursework to make you employable, and if possible get part time or a few contracts for small web-based jobs (or better yet for an actual software company, though it's unlikely), which will allow you to say you've several years professional experience along with your degree.

Simple answer: no computing degree magically grants you lots of money instantly. It does allow you to open doors that might otherwise be closed though.

Yeah a guy I know started for them straight from college recently on 28k but he's not having a good time at all!

sailorfoley

qwytre wrote:

A graduate would typical start on about 25-26k. That goes up to 30k in year 2. After that its what you make it. Quite often the best thing to do after year 2 is to move companies, most companies wont up your salary from 30 to mid 40's in year 3 so if you move to a new company you are more likely to get that jump.

If you keep learning, keep getting extra certifications you will be on 50k in year 5 and up to 60k in year 6-7. After that you have the potential to go to about a max of 65k -70k as a progammer.

You then need to either go into team leadership or something very specialised. Senior Technical Leads have an earning potential of 100k but thats the top end for 10 year experience.

After that you need to look to go into "Head of Development" or "CTO" type roles where you are looking at 120k-160k basic plus bonus\Shares etc

So there is good career path in IT if you want it. No one will had it to you.

Also be careful on what your first job is, make sure its the area you want to work in. You need to start building your experience in your chosen area from the start, dont just take any IT job for the sake of getting into IT.

qwytre has it the nail on the head with this post. Also it depends on demand. At the moment there is quite a lot of .Net jobs out there so if you have the skills you may be able to get a few quid extra. Also the best advice i was given before i finished college was, in the beginning, follow the job - not the money. No point going to work for somewhere that doesn't give you opportunities for e.g. 30K and be miserable. Best to go for somewhere giving you 26K or 27K and they let you develop your skills and learn. As a graduate with a good degree and no experience all you can prove is that you can talk the talk. Those first few years of experience you need to show that you can also walk the walk. After that you'll be able to get a more "attractive financial package" as some recruiters like to put it

Strange_Fruit

Thanks for all the replies.So basically,an analyst is were its at?That would involve knowing absolutly everything about programming,and correcting others as they go along?

projectmayhem

qwytre wrote:

I would also say that Analysts get well paid, more than programmers. Avoid Tech Support and Testing (QA) jobs, they are usually on the lower end in terms of salaries.

tech support and (moreso) QA are good while you're studying to build up experience and earn your chops in a company. once you have your degree you can say you already have experience (especially with QA) and start on the ladder a little higher up...

amen

an analyst is were its at

not at all true

some analasyst are paid well others not depends on the persons and industry

a good person no matter what they will always be well paid

eg a good DB person who understands not only their domain data structures but can performance tune, identify and anticpate db issue will also get well paid

That would involve knowing absolutly everything about programming,and correcting others as they go along?

a lot of analysts know nothing about programing so how to describe/break down a business process into simple steps that are easy to program.
The problem with this is that they should be also be improving the process but a lot of them just take the existing manual and often inefficent process and get it turne into a computer program.

What you are really describing is a senior programmer or team lead who would have a lot of experience and knowledge of best practice in their particular language

Ginger

There are different types of Analysts.. Some are the business types, others are a mix of devs and analyst (as in devs who (d)evolved into analysts .. depends on your point of view )

The ones with technical/development knowledge can command better money and get renamed to Architects.. The map the process and can layout a system for the devs to follow.

Again it depends on the company. If they have sufficient resources to be able to split up the functions into more atomic blocks people become more specialised and as such start costing more.

More to point .. what do you want to do??? Do you like programming? Working only for the money is over-rated believe me. If you cant drag yourself out of bed in the morning then getting paid a lot of money isnt gonna solve that.

BostonB

jasonorr wrote:

Nobody is better off driving a taxi!!!

Whats does that mean? A lot of taxi drivers have a few houses in addition to whatever they make in the taxi. Seems like they do ok.

Ginger wrote:

....based on my experience and what I would be doing, the offers ranged from 75K to 150K. ...

Which is doing what exactly?

Ginger

BostonB wrote:

Which is doing what exactly?

.NET Development using BizTalk, SPS 3.0 & SAP. Its a high demand, low supply scenario as well.

The Corinthian

I'd echo the information of many of the responses here.

CS graduates are next to useless when they start off and require a lot of hand holding and monitoring to make sure they don't screw up. For them, €25k is not a bad starting salary as a rule of thumb.

After that it comes down to how good you are and what job you have for the next few years. Getting up to €30k - €40k within 2 - 4 years seems to be the trend.

After that it's a question of specialization and skill set. A Java or C# developer will earn more than a PHP developer. A generalist will earn less than one who has decided to specialize in a particular field (e.g. security, mobiles, Web services) - although in the latter case specific jobs are also harder to find. Additional qualifications (e.g. MCP) help. Experienced developers will get up to €50k - €85 in those cases, although this can also vary wildly.

Getting beyond this level means abandoning pure development and going down a management or analysis route. You'll also want 7+ years experience before even considering this level although you can leave pure development at any stage in your career (many do after only one or two years). Again, additional qualifications (e.g. MBA) will aid in this. Salary should go into the six figures if you do this right.

All of the above are for permanent positions and specific to the Irish market.

Ginger

The Corinthian wrote:

After that it's a question of specialization and skill set. A Java or C# developer will earn more than a PHP developer. A generalist will earn less than one who has decided to specialize in a particular field (e.g. security, mobiles, Web services) - although in the latter case specific jobs are also harder to find. Additional qualifications (e.g. MCP) help. Experienced developers will get up to €50k - €85 in those cases, although this can also vary wildly.

Getting beyond this level means abandoning pure development and going down a management or analysis route. You'll also want 7+ years experience before even considering this level although you can leave pure development at any stage in your career (many do after only one or two years). Again, additional qualifications (e.g. MBA) will aid in this. Salary should go into the six figures if you do this right.

All of the above are for permanent positions and specific to the Irish market.

As said, the first time I worked abroad I thought I was getting crap money in Euro terms but the cost of living was way lower there and the money was excellent in those terms. I just didnt bring much back to ireland after the conversion to Euro

Similarly the market in London for certain types of developers is extremely buoyant and the money is quite good but on the flipside the cost of living is also high.

Partly what helped my salary was additional qualifications after my degree

cousin_borat

Generally one of the better routes is to work as a coder within enterprise applications. From that to move into the Solutions or Enterprise Architect role a few years down the line.

From a contracting perspective Ireland has pretty crap rates 350-450 per day compared to the Netherlands, Germany, Denmark where rates are generally 600-800 per day. Also .Net does not seem to be a prevalent as in Ireland. Most of the best paying roles in Europe involve Oracle or SAP along with some J2EE development.

Gegerty

If it's coding you're into you should be looking to build up as much experience as possible. Don't worry about the salary for the 1st 5 years, so long as you are getting good experience you will be able to move into contracting with ease after 5 years. This is where the money is. VB contracting at the moment is minimum €350 a day. There's all the cons that come with it of course, you need to be prepared to be out of work etc but believe me €350+ a day covers it all. As you get older you may get sick of programming and want to move into an analyst role....add another €100 a day to your rates.

So my advice, get good at it. Get experience (I don't mean courses, practical experience is what matters) and the money will come.

AARRRGH

qwytre wrote:

Avoid Tech Support and Testing (QA) jobs, they are usually on the lower end in terms of salaries.

I know plenty of non-senior QA people earning 50 - 70k.

DublinWriter

Strange_Fruit wrote:

Thanks for all the replies.So basically,an analyst is were its at?That would involve knowing absolutly everything about programming,and correcting others as they go along?

Errrrrr....no.

Briefly an analyst breaks down and documents business procedures in a way that can be mapped into an I.T. system (sometimes called a 'fit-gap' methodology). Most analysts these days have little or no technical I.T. knowledge.

Basically stay away from the technical side unless you truely love it and even then be prepared to hate it once you get into your mid-30's.

The whole profession of programming has become totally debased.

If you really want to get ahead in corporate I.T. these days then you will find that a technical knowledge is a hinderance.

Hobbes

dublindude wrote:

I know plenty of non-senior QA people earning 50 - 70k.

I agree with you. Generic QE testing is monkey work, but QE script building and stuff requires a certain degree of skills.

Likewise with Tech Support. If your working a call center then yea they would be correct but the more experienced Tech Support pays very well but requires a lot of experience beyond just technical.

QE used to pay more in the US then development (before the outsourcing craze).

Civilian_Target

Thirded, a tester with the knowledge of how ingenious fools can be at breaking your application is an extremely valuable guy to have, and developer will hate him

To get through in CS these days you need practical experience. Two good assets to have are also a decent degree in CS or some maths discipline, and to be friendly, talkative and outgoing.

Many people in the IT industry are not capable programmers, and that's OK so long as you're not applying for dev work. Know your strengths and weakness, and don't be afraid of testing or support roles, there's as much scope there as anywhere else.

dazberry

Civilian_Target wrote:

Many people in the IT industry are not capable programmers, and that's OK so long as you're not applying for dev work.

Unfortunately they are. There are actually 2 types, those that can't, and those that shouldn't - having worked with one of each recently - the latter is far more dangerous.

D.

pwd

I think a lot of the rates being suggested on this thread are far too low.
The graduate rates are fair enough, but if someone is working for around 30k with a few years experience, and they are even half-competent at what they do, they should really really move jobs.

pwd

dublindude wrote:

I know plenty of non-senior QA people earning 50 - 70k.

QA can be anything from following scripts manually, which is pure monkey work, to setting up test harnesses for AJAX applications, which requires decent programming skills.

as a contractor in Ireland, you don't need too much experience to get in the high 30 thousands for the former. You'd be looking at double that for the latter.

AntiVirus

I've been writing financial software for 10 years now and I’m currently earning 70k but when I started I was earning only £12k and I still love my job!

cousin_borat

AntiVirus wrote:

I've been writing financial software for 10 years now and I’m currently earning 70k but when I started I was earning only £12k and I still love my job!

QFT, If you don't like programming and/or working in IT noone is forcing you to stay in it.

Otherwise stay in your chosen career, enjoy it until otherwise, get better at your job and reap the benefits.