Bullbars?

RoundyMooney

Just a quick question, I have no wish to spark off a debate, but Old Mother Google hasn't the answer (at least not on a quick scan):

Can someone let me know if bullbars are now illegal under Irish law, particularly where retrofitting to an existing vehicle is concerned?

Thanks in advance

R.

maidhc

They are legal.

Mitch Connor

maidhc wrote:

They are legal.

i thought they were only legal on vehicles that already had them, or farm vehicles. I thought it had been made illegal to have them fitted to a new vehicle (that isn't to be used for farm work) for no reason, given how dangerous they are.

craichoe

Tauren wrote:

i thought they were only legal on vehicles that already had them, or farm vehicles. I thought it had been made illegal to have them fitted to a new vehicle (that isn't to be used for farm work) for no reason, given how dangerous they are.

I believe its the other way around, a manufacturer can't sell them as an option, but theres nothing to stop you sticking them on afterwards

subway

mrbullbar.ie sells them from a shop in santry across from where i used to work.
i presume they are legal

dak

They should be banned! A jeep with Bull bars and a trailer full of blocks crashed into my parents a number of years ago. Collapsed the central pillar of their car resulting in my mothers demise!

barryfitz

as far as i know they are illegal. I thought A bars were acceptable. However these are only usually held in place by a few small bolts and are lightweight themselves. So they are only for show, as in if you hit a something they would crumple like paper.

mikemac

Definitly should be illegal unless you had a need for them, like being a farmer or working for An Coillte.

But the owners will probably say it means less chance of damage to their SUV or Jeep and that's all they worry about

RoundyMooney

Thanks guys.

Tipsy Mac

micmclo wrote:

But the owners will probably say it means less chance of damage to their SUV or Jeep and that's all they worry about

Yes most people driving them have limited IQ and believe it will save them in a crash where the case in a modern SUV is that they will contribute to their death as they interfere with the crumple zones designed by the manufacturer.

UrbanFox

Here's a thought.

I won't waste time rehashing the argument about greater damage and injury inflicted by bull bars. I take that argument as proven.

Suppose that bull bars are not part of the standard specification for your vehicle and are not available from the manufacturers as an optional extra.

You go out and buy bull bars and have them fitted.

You then wipe out a pedestrian with your bull bars.

Will your insurance company try and squirm out of indemnifying you on the grounds that you altered the vehicle from the manufacturer's specifications and did not declare it ? (Forget the fact that the pedestrian will get paid anyway if the insurance is invalidated as that is another issue.)

pa990

Manufacturers cannot sell a vehicle with bull bars, how ever they can be added afterwards.

All Legal, All above board

FX Meister

micmclo wrote:

Definitly should be illegal unless you had a need for them, like being a farmer or working for An Coillte.

But the owners will probably say it means less chance of damage to their SUV or Jeep and that's all they worry about

What do farmers need bull bars for?

Victor

FX Meister wrote:

What do farmers need bull bars for?

Err, pushing open gates and stuff when its raining and they don't want to get out of the vehicle.

They will of course, occassionally be dealing with bulls.

FX Meister

Well the gate would be latched wouldn't it so it can't be a good idea to smash it open. What do you do to a bull with bull bars?

mikemac

You can tie small gates to them or even bales which is useful if you need to carry them to another field where they are needed. Bullbars are very useful to a farmer.

And if you are trying to create a barrier you can drive slowly right up to the wall/gate and not worry about damaging the jeep.

Tipsy Mac

micmclo wrote:

You can tie small gates to them or even bales which is useful if you need to carry them to another field where they are needed. Bullbars are very useful to a farmer.

And if you are trying to create a barrier you can drive slowly right up to the wall/gate and not worry about damaging the jeep.

Problem is the type of bullbars being fitted are not work type, they are chromed and are not the sort of thing you would go knocking off gates or the like :rolleyes:

mikemac

Tipsy, I only know about bullbars that farmers use and I've seen the ones on vehicles for An Coillte.

Of course chrome ones are useless for work and every farmer/builder, etc knows this. Not sure what material they use but they sure take plenty of punishment.

Anyway, chrome bullbars are for show and for intimating pedestrians

BO111078

micmclo wrote: »

Tipsy, I only know about bullbars that farmers use and I've seen the ones on vehicles for An Coillte.

Of course chrome ones are useless for work and every farmer/builder, etc knows this. Not sure what material they use but they sure take plenty of punishment.

Anyway, chrome bullbars are for show and for intimating pedestrians

STATUTORY INSTRUMENTS.
S.I. No. 448 of 2007
————————
EUROPEAN COMMUNITIES (MECHANICALLY PROPELLED
VEHICLE ENTRY INTO SERVICE) REGULATIONS 2007

They are illegal unless they comply with EU safety regulations: Fine is 5000 Euros if found in contravention of above.:)

Victor

BO111078 wrote: »

STATUTORY INSTRUMENTS.
S.I. No. 448 of 2007
————————
EUROPEAN COMMUNITIES (MECHANICALLY PROPELLED
VEHICLE ENTRY INTO SERVICE) REGULATIONS 2007

They are illegal unless they comply with EU safety regulations: Fine is 5000 Euros if found in contravention of above.:)

http://www.attorneygeneral.ie/esi/2007/B25481.pdf

alias no.9

If tow hitches can be attached to a vehicle in such a way that they can be easily removed when not needed, there's no reason why the same can't be done with bullbars. Anyone who needs them in a work environment can snap them on as required and then take them off if the vehicle is going to be used on the road.

nice1franko

bullbars = child killers

ballooba

Are A-Bars safer than bullbars? Would a plastic A-bar be safer than the steel?

fastrac

There seems to be a notion that chrome A bars are lighter than the older black bull bars.Most of them are made from the exact same material without the side light protection.the modern suvs are rounded for safety but the bar on the front cancels this.As a dairy farmer i use my jeep to check cattle at calving and have made a few hasty retreats when the cow or bull decided i was surplus to requirments.Most farmers put on the bull bar cos its cheaper than constantly fixing lights and wings.I have yet to see a practical use for one.

dak

nice1franko wrote: »

bullbars = child killers

Bullbars= mother killers also !

ballooba

Would a plastic A-Bar be safer? I like the look but I don't actually need it. It was on the car when I bought it.

Seth Brundle

ballooba wrote: »

Would a plastic A-Bar be safer? I like the look but I don't actually need it. It was on the car when I bought it.

The plastic ones will be far safer than the metal ones. However, when car designers are at work they design items such as a bonnet so that it will absorb energy from the impact and (to an extent) cushion the pedestrian. I doubt that plastic bull bars will have the same effect.

lightening

Do they negate crumple zones, thus making them dangerous for occupants?

ballooba

lightening wrote: »

Do they negate crumple zones, thus making them dangerous for occupants?

Surely approved A-bars would not.

emaherx

alias no.9 wrote: »

If tow hitches can be attached to a vehicle in such a way that they can be easily removed when not needed, there's no reason why the same can't be done with bullbars. Anyone who needs them in a work environment can snap them on as required and then take them off if the vehicle is going to be used on the road.

I'm a Farmer and some sort of removable bull bar would not be such a bad idea.
Although in practice I would imagine people would not bother taking it off.
Also mount points pertuding from the front of the vehicle may also be lethal.

Maybe some kind of retractable Bull Bar that could be stored under the viehcle
Although this would only work on particularly high 4X4's like the Defender.

Which wouldn't be made much more lethal by fitting a bullbar anyway.

Probubly the best compromise for Farm veihcles is the Foam A-Bar and grills over the lights, as the only real need for Bull bars is to protect the radiator.
In some cases the Foam A-Bar may even protect pedestrians from winches mounted on the viehcle.

As for affecting crumple zones if the impact is that hard the bull bar will give way (I know not before destroying the car in front of it), so I don't think they will affect passenger safty. Also 4X4's built on ladder chassis don't have much of a crumple zone any way.

And I don't think most Farmer's 4X4's are designed with peadestrian absorbing bonnets, I wouldn't reccomend standing in front of a moving Land Cruiser, Izuzu Trooper or Land Rover Defender with or without A-Bars.

Bull bars should be banned form all vehicles not being used off road on a regular basis.

Seth Brundle

The simple reality is that if the government wanted to, they could ban bullbars from use on a public road. For whatever reason, they are still permitted.

Cookie_Monster

Presumably it's still allowed as it's not a big enough deal for anyone (in government / RSA)to bother taking action on it.

In fairness if something the weight and momentum of an 4X4 hits you i think whether or not it has bull bars of the front is the least of your worries...

Seth Brundle

You see bull bars on transits, etc also!

emaherx

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

In fairness if something the weight and momentum of an 4X4 hits you i think whether or not it has bull bars of the front is the least of your worries...

I think that would depend on the size of the 4X4.
Are we talking about Rav 4 or a Discovery?

Lots of small SUV's that never see the country side let alone live stock fitted with them.

But its a fair point, I don't see anyone giving out about all of the Lorrys fitted with Bull Bars, when is the last time you saw a lorry in a field with a bull.
(Waiting for smart comment about cattle trucks :rolleyes:)

all thought if you get runover by a truck I don't think it will matter.

coolbeans

What do farmers need bull bars for?

In short they don't. Speaking as a farmer's son I've never seen the need for them. The old man will be getting a new pick-up soon and I'm making it quite clear to him that (the majority) of people will only resent the bull bar and that he'd be better off without it.
In short; bullbars make Jesus cry.:mad:

emaherx

coolbeans wrote: »

What do farmers need bull bars for?

In short they don't. Speaking as a farmer's son I've never seen the need for them. The old man will be getting a new pick-up soon and I'm making it quite clear to him that (the majority) of people will only resent the bull bar and that he'd be better off without it.
In short; bullbars make Jesus cry.:mad:

Depends on how much herding is done using the jeep.
Ever had a cow kick in a radiator? Bull Bars do prevent this

But then so do the plastic / foam type A-Bars which are a little less evil.

G Luxel

kbannon wrote: »

You see bull bars on transits, etc also!

There are also seen on Toyota Corolla Estates and Caldina's (Carina Estate) from Japan. But they are a lot smaller in size.

emaherx

G Luxel wrote: »

There are also seen on Toyota Corolla Estates and Caldina's (Carina Estate) from Japan. But they are a lot smaller in size.

Also small ones to be seen on Austin Minis and old VW Beetles and Vans/Buses.
But then again mini with Bulbars will probubly only knee cap you.

oleras

emaherx wrote: »

Depends on how much herding is done using the jeep.

Jeep ? what kind of farmer are you, you should have a horse for all that herding

emaherx

oleras wrote: »

Jeep ? what kind of farmer are you, you should have a horse for all that herding

I would but I can't find any where to bolt the Bull Bar:D

nytraveller

Does this mean I cant go fishing now?