Ruling Question

tylerdurden94

This poped up in the SE cash league final.

3 people to see the flop. The dealer burns a card and then puts down 3 cards to turn over for the flop but uses the next burn card by mistake as the scoop to turn them over.

This card gets exposed showing four cards on the flop. Everybody knows what the burn card was suppose to be Qc.

What happens now?

Will post the result when i have heard a few opinions.

Flushdraw

I'd probably just carry on as normal. It cant really be shuffled back into the deck because the turn and river cards are already set.

I've seen it happen before and its just used as the next burn card.

How did you get on Danny? Who cashed or is it still going?

DeVore

Thats an interesting one.

I'm not entirely sure of the answer here in fact, but my belief is that the burned card preflop, the mistakenly exposed card (Qc), the flop and the deck (but NOT any muck) are rewashed and a new flop is put out.


There is a case to be made for simply declaring that the Qc will be burned and proceeding as things are but I think the official ruling is that there has been no significant action so its a rewash and reflop.

DeV.

Flushdraw

DeVore wrote:

Thats an interesting one.

I'm not entirely sure of the answer here in fact, but my belief is that the burned card preflop, the mistakenly exposed card (Qc), the flop and the deck (but NOT any muck) are rewashed and a new flop is put out.


There is a case to be made for simply declaring that the Qc will be burned and proceeding as things are but I think the official ruling is that there has been no significant action so its a rewash and reflop.

DeV.

That makes perfectly good sense but if bad beat Joe was in the hand and had QJ and the flop was AK10......there'd be a Joe shaped hole in the wall of the SE...

tylerdurden94

Flushdraw wrote:

I'd probably just carry on as normal. It cant really be shuffled back into the deck because the turn and river cards are already set.

I've seen it happen before and its just used as the next burn card.

How did you get on Danny? Who cashed or is it still going?

Yeah i really enjoyed it. Im gonna post my hand later on see what u think. Still going strong when i was leaving there was a few lads left. Wes, Mick Ste, Eammon, Peter. Eammon and Peter had some good looking stacks.

Flushdraw wrote:

That makes perfectly good sense but if bad beat Joe was in the hand and had QJ and the flop was AK10......there'd be a Joe shaped hole in the wall of the SE...

No Joe at the table but i did see him get like 3 double ups in 5 hands. No bad beat stories from him tonight i hope.

Lplate

DeVore wrote:

Thats an interesting one.

I'm not entirely sure of the answer here in fact, but my belief is that the burned card preflop, the mistakenly exposed card (Qc), the flop and the deck (but NOT any muck) are rewashed and a new flop is put out.


There is a case to be made for simply declaring that the Qc will be burned and proceeding as things are but I think the official ruling is that there has been no significant action so its a rewash and reflop.

DeV.

This happened to me when TD. I ruled at the time for declaring the burn card as shown and continuing as normal. However, when I made enquiries to higher authorities later, I was told I should have done as first point above.

DeVore

It wouldnt be the worst ruling in the world to say "ah, feck it, the flop turn and river are going to be as intended, everyone has the same information... play ball".

DeV.

tylerdurden94

DeVore wrote:

It wouldnt be the worst ruling in the world to say "ah, feck it, the flop turn and river are going to be as intended, everyone has the same information... play ball".

DeV.

Thats what i thought would of happened in this situation.

JP Poker

DeVore wrote:

It wouldnt be the worst ruling in the world to say "ah, feck it, the flop turn and river are going to be as intended, everyone has the same information... play ball".

DeV.

.

tricky D

..

In live play, the princple is this - the deck is 'set' once shuffled, your fate wrt cards is sealed. The integrity of this principle is to be maintained as best as possible after any mistake.

RoundTower

DeVore wrote:

It wouldnt be the worst ruling in the world to say "ah, feck it, the flop turn and river are going to be as intended, everyone has the same information... play ball".

DeV.

that is the normal ruling i believe

DeVore

I wasnt sure, it seems like a reasonable ruling alright, though I've often heard the other given too.

DeV.

jem

i would put the burnt card on to of the deck to insure that all could see it and proceed as normal. information is king and they all had the same amout of info.

5starpool

As long as it was indisputible that the Qc was the burn card I would be amazed if any ruling was given other than 'carry on as normal with card exposed'.

tylerdurden94

DeVore wrote:

Thats an interesting one.

I'm not entirely sure of the answer here in fact, but my belief is that the burned card preflop, the mistakenly exposed card (Qc), the flop and the deck (but NOT any muck) are rewashed and a new flop is put out.


There is a case to be made for simply declaring that the Qc will be burned and proceeding as things are but I think the official ruling is that there has been no significant action so its a rewash and reflop.

DeV.

Ok so ive seen a few replies to this. Dev was pretty close to it. I thought this was a strange one to be honest. So here is what happened....

TD came over and thought about it for a minute, he said the the card would have to be put back in and reshuffled but what happened was strange the second card from the top of the deck was taken out to be used as the river card. The flop was to remain the same and the rest of the cards to reshuffled excluding the mucked cards.

Mellor

tylerdurden94 wrote:

Ok so ive seen a few replies to this. Dev was pretty close to it. I thought this was a strange one to be honest. So here is what happened....

TD came over and thought about it for a minute, he said the the card would have to be put back in and reshuffled but what happened was strange the second card from the top of the deck was taken out to be used as the river card. The flop was to remain the same and the rest of the cards to reshuffled excluding the mucked cards.

I think thats a pretty bad ruling. The second card from the top, wouldn't that be the turn card?

The card was burnt. The turn and river were unchanged.
I think its best to treat it as an exposed card. Declare and move on.

corkie123

as far as i know play carries on as if u did not see burn card u just have a bit more information only . its would be the same as a card that is turn over when dealt by mistake it becomes the burned card and the burned card is used as the players card . same thing u getting more info