Time for Reform of Hurling Championships?

gbh

I don't begrudge Kilkenny their win, fair play to them. However it's just that hurling is getting predictable...its either Cork or Kilkenny in the final for most of the last ten years and either Cork or Kilkenny win. They are the big two and if Cork dont win it or reach the final then Kilkenny always have the guile experience and hunger that comes with being from a county with a tradition like hurling to win finals. Counties like Limerick or Waterford dont have the same tradition or experience of finals in Croke Park and its always difficult to break the cycle of Cork or Kilkenny victories.

Some reforms I see are breaking counties like Kilkenny and Cork in two, and have Kilkenny north and south, Cork north and south. Then combine other counties together like Roscommon-Mayo for example. Either that or allow fringe players in the stronger counties to play for weaker counties. As it stands I just see Cork and Kilkenny where hurling is a religion sharing out the cake for the next decade or so.

sgthighway

I think they should use a Group System instead of Provincial System for the Liam McCarthy. Provinces can still have their own Championship. My county; Galway are suffering from lack of games. There is no way Munster will agree to it.

I believe we will be in strong contention next year.

An Citeog

This really is a terrible idea! You want to lower the standard of hurling so that the weaker counties can win? I was listening to Mícheál Ó Muircheartaigh earlier on the radio and he was talking about the need for other counties to raise their game and to try and get up to the level of Kilkenny. Trying to drag Kilkenny in the opposition direction would ruin the game.

The need for reform is within th exisiting structures. Munster hurling is thriving and Leinster teams seem to be beginning to regroup. Dublin have been a lot more competitive at underage level in recent years and this trend needs to be continued. Ulster and Connacht really only have one team each and even Antrim have slipped in recent years. There's more of an emphasis needed at grass-roots level for hurling in every county. Let the kids play from an early age with proper coaching and we'll see the game flourish.

gbh

nope im saying there needs to be some effort to introduce real competiveness..as it stands Cork and Kilkenny are in a different league and the rest are struggling to keep up...look at International soccer and how the Grandparents rule was brought in to help weaker countries...did you complain when Ireland benefitted? I doubt it.

In Kilkenny there is no football team to take half the potential players whereas in every other county there is. So Kilkenny concentrate everything on hurling, and hurling is like i say a religion whereas in other counties hurling is played in small patches.

AndyP

An Citeog wrote:

This really is a terrible idea! You want to lower the standard of hurling so that the weaker counties can win? I was listening to Mícheál Ó Muircheartaigh earlier on the radio and he was talking about the need for other counties to raise their game and to try and get up to the level of Kilkenny. Trying to drag Kilkenny in the opposition direction would ruin the game.

The need for reform is within th exisiting structures. Munster hurling is thriving and Leinster teams seem to be beginning to regroup. Dublin have been a lot more competitive at underage level in recent years and this trend needs to be continued. Ulster and Connacht really only have one team each and even Antrim have slipped in recent years. There's more of an emphasis needed at grass-roots level for hurling in every county. Let the kids play from an early age with proper coaching and we'll see the game flourish.

Correctemundo. The OP suggests splitting Cork and Kilkenny. I think it is hugley unfair to think of 'punishing' a team, just because they are successful, should Kerry/ Man U/ Chelsea be broken up cos they win too much? MoM is right when he says the other counties need to bring their level up and not bring Kilk and Cork down to suit the rest. Also, the idea of merging counties would never be a runner, the minor counties are facilitated with the Christy Ring and Nicky Rackard which suits their level of ability.

sgthighway

Change is hard. Some counties are either Football or Hurling Counties; full stop. Counties like Galway and Cork put much the same investment into both codes but some counties don't. Just take a look for the Football news on Kilkenny website and you will see what I mean.

Breezer

gbh wrote:

In Kilkenny there is no football team to take half the potential players whereas in every other county there is. So Kilkenny concentrate everything on hurling, and hurling is like i say a religion whereas in other counties hurling is played in small patches.

I understand where you're coming from, but you're forgetting about Cork. Always challenge in hurling, have a habit of making football semi-finals, this year made the final and were the last team to retain Sam Maguire.

Splitting the counties up would serve no purpose, it amounts to punishing them for being successful as has been said. It's almost as ridiculous as splitting the Dublin football team up (I say 'almost' because Dublin haven't won an All-Ireland since 1995).

I do agree that the provincial championships are holding both codes back. I also agree that there will be fierce opposition to scrapping the Munster hurling championship, or even leaving it in place as a stand-alone competition. It is a wonderful spectacle and IMO is more exciting than the All-Ireland as every team is competitive. Limerick/Tipperary and Waterford/Cork this year were enthralling contests. In contrast, Wexford made the All-Irelands only to be hammered by Kilkenny for the second time.

Having said that, I think it would benefit the game of hurling (and football) overall if an open-draw system were used. 7 groups of 4 and 1 group of 5 randomly selected teams play a mini-league, with the top two from each qualifying for the quarter finals in football. A similar system in hurling, adjusted to accommodate the smaller number of counties. Controversial? Absolutely. Needed? I think so.

AndyP

Breezer wrote:

Having said that, I think it would benefit the game of hurling (and football) overall if an open-draw system were used. 7 groups of 4 and 1 group of 5 randomly selected teams play a mini-league, with the top two from each qualifying for the quarter finals in football. A similar system in hurling, adjusted to accommodate the smaller number of counties. Controversial? Absolutely. Needed? I think so.

Bit off topic, but its a good point made above.

For the football, you could make 8 groups of 4 teams (London replacing Kilkenny). 8 top seeds, 8 second seeds and so on. Each team plays each other once or twice, at lest guaranteeing smaller counties a decent mumber of games with big gates for games against bigger counties, eg Wicklow v Dublin/Kerry/Tyrone in Aughrim in July. Top 2 from each group progress to a knockout last 16.

In the hurling it could be 4 groups of 3 teams, with the winners going to the AI semis or expand it to 16 teams to give each team more games.

Well, thats what I dream of anyway, can't see it happening any time soon.

Daysha

gbh wrote:

as it stands Cork and Kilkenny are in a different league and the rest are struggling to keep up.

Did you even watch this years hurling championship? Kilkenny, maybe in a different league. Cork? Not a hope. They're a fantastic team and at their best the probably stand as the 2nd best in the country, but to say the rest are struggling to keep up with Cork considering most have done that (and passed them) this summer is a bit OTT.

Munster just cannot be scrapped, but I do agree with having it a stand-alone competition, not having your performance in Munster influence your draw in the All Ireland series. Could you imagine a team gaining extra points in the Premiership for winning the FA Cup? Just like the FA Cup, Munster won't lose its magic. Tipp, Clare and Limerick have gone too long without winning Munster by their standards and that should be enough to give them the incentitive to give Munster a serious go.

The All Ireland needs a major revamp. Anyone within the "big nine" could beat anyone and a group system would be seriously competitive. Even outside those nine Dublin and Antrim can (in time) join them. Winning an All Ireland should be a reward for proving they are the absolute best in the country. Kilkenny won it without meeting Cork, Waterford, Tipp and Clare. Waterford nearly reached an AI final by facing just two counties, Cork and Limerick.

There probably wouldnt be enough time in the summer for everyone to face everyone but even if a county met 5 DIFFERENT counties, along with an All Ireland final, victory would be much more rewarding for the winners. Having the Munster Championship despersed during the summer in the middle of the AI series, just like an FA Cup taking place during a Premiership year, is perfectly viable.

All very good ideas on this topic, but like you said Andy, with the new system coming in next year for at least 2 years, something as radical as what we're proposing wont come on the GAA agenda, never mind happen, for a very long time