Charles Gayle @ JJ's

Rigsby

The great free-jazz saxist Charles Gayle plays in JJ's on 23 Sept. With him will be the legendary William Parker on bass and Mark Sanders on drums. This music is defininitely not everybody's cup of tea, but can be rewarding listening if you go without any pre- concieved ideas. It will be third time lucky for me as I missed his previous two gigs here. Roll on Sept. 23.

ctesiphon

Rigsby wrote:

This music is defininitely not everybody's cup of tea, but can be rewarding listening if you go without any pre- concieved ideas.

I presume you're referring to the abrasiveness of his playing?

Might be worth mentioning his rampant homophobia too. Though I'm a huge fan of William Parker, I'll be giving this gig a miss. Reluctantly, I might add, but this is one principle on which I do not compromise.

aurel

Can you link to any examples of his homophobia?

Rigsby

aurel wrote:

Can you link to any examples of his homophobia?

I too would like to see some examples ! CTESIPHON : "On principal" I assume you dont go to Chinese restraunts either because of the way the Chinese government threat their people ?

In regard to him not being everybody's cup of tea : as I said in the initial post : "this music is not for everybody". Therefore I was referring to free jazz in gereral.

Pity you are letting your principals get in the way of what promises to be a great night of music.

ctesiphon

Wow- are we a bit touchy this evening?

I'm well aware, Rigsby, that you were referring to the music; you, in turn, will note the 'too' in my reply, and all it implies. And yes, as I said, it is with reluctance that I have decided to skip this gig, though more for the fact that I'll be missing William Parker than Charles Gayle. (Didn't I say all of this before? Why must I say it again? Sheesh. Isn't the internet full enough already?) William Parker is one of my all time favourite jazz bassists- up there with Dave Holland, Greg Cohen, Richard Davis, Barry Guy, Miroslav Vitous and Marc Johnson, to name just a few off the top of my head. But sometimes I have to put other considerations before my enjoyment (how un-Celtic Tiger of me), and this is one of those times. If you can put money in the pocket of a proud homophobe, then good for you. Enjoy the gig. I can't do it, but each to their own. (That's what makes them principles, btw- they're not just casually held opinions, and so can't just be tossed aside when the big boys come to town.)

For the record, there are a) plenty of other dodgy characters / assholes in jazz (and elsewhere) that I would willingly pay money to see, despite their nonsense, and b) there are probably other homophobes out there playing jazz, whose homophobia goes undetected. These points are the keys to this, for me- a) some nonsense, while obviously nonsensical, is pretty inoffensive, and I can enjoy the music by simply ignoring it, and b) other homophobes have the good sense to keep their homophobic sentiments to themselves. Gayle, however, uses the stage as a platform - pulpit, if you will - from which to preach his hatred.

Gayle's homophobia - as I said, generally spouted from the stage, so linking to it is a bit difficult, though there are quite a few references to it on-line (Google can help greatly in that regard; I have better things to do than perform searches for the lazy) - is well known among jazz fans (or so I thought). I felt the need to mention this - as you might have noticed, I actually registered on this site in order to pass the word on - because it's the kind of thing that catches the audience unawares at his gigs, often resulting in people walking out, and I thought by taking the time to spread the word I might help some people avoid the unnecessary expense of trudging in to town and paying in to the gig only to have their right-thinking sensibilities offended.

So there you have it- a public service announcement that someone saw fit to take personally, despite my best efforts to word it in such a way as to be entirely non-personal. I can only try.

Anyway, thanks for the warm welcome to boards.ie. It's nice to be appreciated.

PS Seeing as you're a bit touchy, I probably shouldn't mention that I don't have 'principals', I have 'principles'- as I said in my original post.

PPS Your Chinese restaurant analogy is a textbook example of a basic logical fallacy. To respond to it would really be to do your intellect and mine a great disservice.

Enjoy the gig. And please don't ask me to elaborate on this all over again. And please don't take it personally (except the bits that are meant to be taken personally, obviously ).

aurel

ctesiphon wrote:

Gayle's homophobia - as I said, generally spouted from the stage, so linking to it is a bit difficult, though there are quite a few references to it on-line (Google can help greatly in that regard; I have better things to do than perform searches for the lazy)

I have done some googling and while I have found some others expressing the same view I cannot find the actual comments so I can judge for myself and besides, I find it quite lazy that you take the time make allegations of this magnitude but are unwilling to provide some evidence to back it up.

ctesiphon wrote:

Gayle's homophobiais well known among jazz fans (or so I thought). I felt the need to mention this - as you might have noticed, I actually registered on this site in order to pass the word on - because it's the kind of thing that catches the audience unawares at his gigs, often resulting in people walking out, and I thought by taking the time to spread the word I might help some people avoid the unnecessary expense of trudging in to town and paying in to the gig only to have their right-thinking sensibilities offended.

Fair enough but you have to realise that when this is your first post on a messageboard and you're making allegations this heavy that a source at the very least is key.

Rigsby

CTESIPHON : I'm sorry if my post came across as being "touchy" as it was not meant to be. I have been listening to Gayle and free jazz in general for a long time. I've been teased by friends and relations about the music sounding like "a cat being strangled" and what do I see in it. So I'm not put out by anything you have said.


I respect your principles (thanks for correcting my spelling ), I was merely wondering if they stretched as far as going to Chinese restraunts (dont worry, no need to elaborate here )


Personally, I could n't care less about Gayle's personality or beliefs. I am strictly there for the music. Admittedly I'll be a bit put out if he spouts on for too long, and I agree he should not use a venue stage to preach like this. Nonetheless, IMO this is not a reason to miss a legend in full flight, but as you say,"to each his own".Hopefully the music will prevail.

Oh !! ...... and welcome to "boards"

Rigsby

Attended the gig last night, and enjoyed a great night of uplifting music.

Contrary to what "CTESIPHON" was saying above about Gayle preaching hatred from the stage: the man never uttered one word for the whole night except at the end when he thanked the audience for being so attentive (you could hear a pin drop during the quieter passages).