Camera phones replacing digital cameras?

gary the great

Is a good camera phone a decent replacement for a digital camera?

Are the newer 2megapixel + phones with flash a decent alternative for the traditional camera?

GrumPy

gary the great wrote:

Is a good camera phone a decent replacement for a digital camera?

Are the newer 2megapixel + phones with flash a decent alternative for the traditional camera?

no, and no.

Melion

Ive got a SE k800i with the 3.2mp camera. I dont see the need to buy a digital camera. The quality of the pictures from the phone is enough for me.

JohnK

It might be a 3.2mp camera on the phone but I'd bet good money that if you put it side by side with a proper 3.2mp camera there'd be a huge difference in quality. Add to that the fact the most phone cameras are very slow to respond means that as yet they are nowhere near being a replacement for a proper camera.

Melion

The quality suits me for the amount of pictures i take. Any pictures from the phone i have printed off have been perfect.

Doctor DooM

Im not a huge photo taker-er but I haven't used a digital camera since I got my k750i, and definitely not since I got my n95.

I would say however that you can get a 5 mp camera which is half the size of the n95, with a longer battery life and faster response, for a reasonable price, and camera of higher quality, so if your serious about your shots, na-ah.

AlmightyCushion

Some day I'd say they will but not yet. Saying that I still don't have a digital camera, I just use my k800i. I might get one though when the price of digital SLR come down. What were the first digital cameras like? Would they be comparable to camera phones?

Fajitas!

The problem with camera phones is the tiny sensor, adding more megapixels into it won't negate the fact the sensor is so small, and a small sensor equals more noise and less quality.

The first digital cameras, though low in quality, would have had less noise than a mobile phone.

bandit197

I have the Nokia N95 with a 5 million megapixel camera and it is a perfect replacement for a standalone digital camera. I need to take lots of high resolution photos for my work. Also, the N95 has built in Wi Fi. Show me a standalone camera that you can email your photos from after you take them. It is fast when set up properly and the pictures have to be seen to be believed. Battery life is the only issue but these are getting better every year and for now its easy to carry a spare.

AlmightyCushion

Fajitas! wrote:

The first digital cameras, though low in quality, would have had less noise than a mobile phone.

Dang. You seem to know your shít about this type of thing so in your opinion would camera phones ever get as good as a digital slr camera?

BostonB

Fajitas! wrote:

The problem with camera phones is the tiny sensor, adding more megapixels into it won't negate the fact the sensor is so small, and a small sensor equals more noise and less quality.

The first digital cameras, though low in quality, would have had less noise than a mobile phone.

The problem with a lot of full size cameras (never mind phones) is the sensor is too small for the amount of pixels they are cramming into them. Silly when you consider that most people will never take advantage of the extra pixels. My first digital camera's (a real budget job) were much worse than the camera on my mobile. Though no doubt if you had a decent early digital camera it was probably much better than any camera phone. The big problem with camera phones IMO is that most of them don't focus. If you have one with auto focus and a decent lense on a bright day you'll be able to take a decent snapshot photo, that will print ok at 6x4 and maybe bigger.

http://mobilementalism.com/2006/11/12/whose-camera-phone-takes-the-best-pictures-part-1-nokia/
http://www.gsmarena.com/3mp_test_nokia_n80_se_k800-review-79.php

ratminer

The key phrase in the foregoing was "good enough for me". Like many such comparative discussions it essentially comes down to what you are looking for. Like the discussion on MP3 players, I suspect that for a huge amount of people a €40 MP3 player and 128k rips are more than adequate because they are listening on $10 headphones to music they don't care much about, and to be honest thats fine. So for a few quick snaps, good camera phones are ideal (especially the top end like the N95), and there is no dismissive sub-text in this comment. They genuinely do the business. They will never replace a good SLR camera without any doubt, because they are constrained by the design context (size in particular).

gary the great

Im thinking of getting the nokia n70, I would only ever use the phone on a night out to take a load of photos then lash them onot bebo, im no professional or anything! Would the n70 take decnet pictures in anight club though? That is the question.

Plus i'll always have the phone on me so will be handy.

Arathorn

No even the best camera phones wont take decent pictures at night time. I have an N95 it takes excellent pics in daylight and only so so night time pictures.

JohnK

I have an N95 too and I'd only ever consider using it as a camera as a last resort as its just way too slow. Its grand if its a scenic shot but if your taking a picture of people then by the time its actually taken the picture everyone will have moved so you dont get what you saw in the viewfinder. That doesnt even take into account the ridiculously long startup time for the camera so spontaneous shots are out of the question. Fyi, my real camera isn’t a fancy SLR its just a point-and-click Canon Ixus

Guy:Incognito

JohnK wrote:

It might be a 3.2mp camera on the phone but I'd bet good money that if you put it side by side with a proper 3.2mp camera there'd be a huge difference in quality. Add to that the fact the most phone cameras are very slow to respond means that as yet they are nowhere near being a replacement for a proper camera.

The camera on the K800 is actually a sony Cybershot branded camera. The pics it produces are really very good. Its only a couple of years ago 3.2 mp was very good for a digital camera.

DtotheK

i have a digital camera, 4mp , got a n93 with 3.2 mp and flash, and now my camera hasnt even had batteries in it for weeks! im not a big photographer, but you knoe, the odd photo here and there and a few on nights out.

BostonB

Arathorn wrote:

No even the best camera phones wont take decent pictures at night time. I have an N95 it takes excellent pics in daylight and only so so night time pictures.

Yeah poor at night. I'd qualify that, its excellent for what it is. For the price of a N95 you'd buy a serious camera though. I have a good camera for when I need it. My phone camera is handy for lots of things though.

GerardKeating

gary the great wrote:

Is a good camera phone a decent replacement for a digital camera?

Are the newer 2megapixel + phones with flash a decent alternative for the traditional camera?

Only for the most basic photography, i have yet to see a camera photo with a flash, or a proper optical zoom, so they good for close-up pictures during the day and that's all.

Guy:Incognito

GerardKeating wrote:

i have yet to see a camera photo with a flash,.

Plenty of them do. The K800 certainly does anyway.

JohnK

GerardKeating wrote:

or a proper optical zoom

There are a few out there but I've never actually seen one so cant comment on the quality of them. One example is the Samsung SCH-B500 (http://www.ubergizmo.com/15/archives/2006/01/samsung_schb500_to_be_released_in_korea_soon.html) which has 3x optical zoom.

GerardKeating

JohnK wrote:

There are a few out there but I've never actually seen one so cant comment on the quality of them. One example is the Samsung SCH-B500 (http://www.ubergizmo.com/15/archives/2006/01/samsung_schb500_to_be_released_in_korea_soon.html) which has 3x optical zoom.

3x is the bare minimun with digital cameras with optical zoom, hardly worth mentioning, proper optical zoom is at least 8x (imho), but i supose in time we might se this with the camera phones in time.

GerardKeating

GerardKeating wrote:

i have yet to see a camera photo with a flash

The k750 had a decent flash. If used properly it took some decent night time shots.

BostonB

Stekelly wrote:

Plenty of them do. The K800 certainly does anyway.

Can you name 5 cameras available from the Irish Providers that have a Flash?

Royale with Cheese

Had a k750i with a 2mp camera + light/flash thing, now have a samsung u-600 with a 3.2mp camera + light/flash thing.

Using natural light the photos come out really well. At night the quality can be very dodge, especially on the k750i. The flash thing is rubbish on both phones. Having said that I'm not big into cameras and the camera on my u-600 will certainly do for me.

JohnK

BostonB wrote:

Can you name 5 cameras available from the Irish Providers that have a Flash?

LG Prada KE850
Sony Ericsson K750i
Sony Ericsson K800i
Nokia N95
Samsung E900

ablelocks

the best camera is the one you have on you. I'm waiting on the k850i to come out - this won't replace my digicam and I don't expect it to be near as good in terms of quality, but I'll always have it, unlike my current camera (panasonic dmc-fz5) which is too big to carry around all the time. I did consider buying a cheap phone and a slim-line camera, but I don't want to have to carry multiple gadgets all the time. I'm hoping the k850i will be a good all-rounder.

Thirdfox

JohnK wrote:

LG Prada KE850
Sony Ericsson K750i
Sony Ericsson K800i
Nokia N95
Samsung E900

Most of these phones you just mentioned do not have a "flash" in the traditional sense of the photography - they use led lights to illuminate the subject. (The k800i has a xenon flash though). The term normally used is camera lights as far as I remember.

dSLRs are constantly improving as camera phones improve too - so no I don't think it will ever overtake dedicated cameras but it may be enough for you (most people do not print out to A1 size photos).

I like using a dSLR for its responsiveness and wide variety of lens available, low light capabilities are much better than camera phones (large sensor).

Here's two photos from my collection (which I believe would not be possible if I were using a camera phone - at the present time...in the future hopefully they'll be able to handle these too!)





These are just small thumbnails, but you would be able to print to A4 without any problems and A1 for viewing at a distance. (Photoshop helps too...) This camera costs circa. E420 nowadays...much cheaper than a N95

balkieb2002

Those photos Thirdfox are very nice!! Have seen some very nice N95 shots of flickr which may not rival the quality of your photos (espec on a larger scale) but come fairly close in beauty. Theres one particular one of an underground station that I like (can't remember link now) .


Edit: this was it
http://www.flickr.com/photos/lutonian/1234720701/

melekalikimaka

JohnK wrote:

LG Prada KE850
Sony Ericsson K750i
Sony Ericsson K800i
Nokia N95
Samsung E900

as said, none of these are actual flash.

the sensors as fajita says are too small to be able to handle hight mp, noise is a serious issue, they have all very high apetures so its hard to get steady shots. now i have a w800 and have gotten some decent shots

http://www.flickr.com/photos/melekalikimaka/226561245/


the noise (kinda grainy effect on first one) has been cleaned up alot in photoshop after i took it, but it effects the image alot and also the apeture(amount of light let in effects the image greatly. the lack of manual mode also limits your creativity.
BUT if your just usin it for pics of you mates yadda yadda, mobile phones do the job...as long as theres enough light...nitght clubs/pubs, your pretty screwed

but compare to this

http://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne?id=270719115&size=o&context=photostream

Kintarō Hattori

bandit197 wrote:

I have the Nokia N95 with a 5 million megapixel camera and it is a perfect replacement for a standalone digital camera. I need to take lots of high resolution photos for my work. Also, the N95 has built in Wi Fi. Show me a standalone camera that you can email your photos from after you take them. It is fast when set up properly and the pictures have to be seen to be believed. Battery life is the only issue but these are getting better every year and for now its easy to carry a spare.

http://www.dpreview.com/news/0703/07030809sonyg1.asp - It's close and I'be no doubt in another few months there'll be a camera you can email from directly.

melekalikimaka

http://www.usa.canon.com/consumer/controller?act=ModelInfoAct&fcategoryid=145&modelid=12828

this also has wifi

if you use a mobile to take pictures for work...they mustn't need to be high quality, the higher the megappixel does not mean hight quality...infact the fact its 5 means its possiblely LOWER quality due to sensor constraints

3000 POSTS WOOT

gary the great

ablelocks wrote:

the best camera is the one you have on you. I'm waiting on the k850i to come out - this won't replace my digicam and I don't expect it to be near as good in terms of quality, but I'll always have it, unlike my current camera (panasonic dmc-fz5) which is too big to carry around all the time. I did consider buying a cheap phone and a slim-line camera, but I don't want to have to carry multiple gadgets all the time. I'm hoping the k850i will be a good all-rounder.

Exactly my thoughts, hence why i asked the question.

sharkman

bandit197 wrote:

I have the Nokia N95 with a 5 million megapixel camera . Also, the N95 has built in Wi Fi. Show me a standalone camera that you can email your photos from after you take them. It is fast when set up properly and the pictures have to be seen to be believed.

On Irish networks !!!!! I'd hate to see your bills if your sending 5Meg photos .

Thirdfox

balkieb2002 wrote:

Those photos Thirdfox are very nice!! Have seen some very nice N95 shots of flickr which may not rival the quality of your photos (espec on a larger scale) but come fairly close in beauty. Theres one particular one of an underground station that I like (can't remember link now) .


Edit: this was it
http://www.flickr.com/photos/lutonian/1234720701/

Thanks for your comments!

I suppose it actually comes down to the photographer - a good photographer can work with very limited cameras (not saying the N95's camera is very limited) and make masterpieces...whereas a fool with E10,000+ worth of camera gear probably still makes junk. My photos are still hovering around the "junk" area...see the photos by Ansel Adams for truly fantastic photos (no digital cameras in his days!)





Could he make those shots with the camera phones of today? Maybe not quite but he'd come close perhaps.

Of course if you want to take photos for fun, with friends etc. a 2kg camera strapped around your neck probably wouldn't be the most convenient

AlmightyCushion

sharkman wrote:

On Irish networks !!!!! I'd hate to see your bills if your sending 5Meg photos .

3?

bandit197

sharkman wrote:

On Irish networks !!!!! I'd hate to see your bills if your sending 5Meg photos .

The photos on the N95 can be sent direct from the web browser on the phone which uses a wireless network when available. If none is available you can use gprs or 3g which is quite expensive. I am not for one min suggesting that a camera phone can take the place of a digital slr, but for everyday quality photos a good camera phone cannot be beaten for practicality and convienence. Who needs yet another gadget in your pocket when you can carry just one. When Praktica and Nikon etc add a phone, wifi web browser, GPS with navigation and an mp3/mp4 player to their cameras I WILL buy one:)
(oh ya, and a radio and games)

melekalikimaka

bandit197 wrote:

for everyday quality photos a good camera phone cannot be beaten for practicality and convienence.

i wouldnt go that far... its very dependant on conditions. eg lighting and movement. a small p & s would be infinitly better for nights out

Thirdfox

bandit197 wrote:

The photos on the N95 can be sent direct from the web browser on the phone which uses a wireless network when available. If none is available you can use gprs or 3g which is quite expensive. I am not for one min suggesting that a camera phone can take the place of a digital slr, but for everyday quality photos a good camera phone cannot be beaten for practicality and convienence. Who needs yet another gadget in your pocket when you can carry just one. When Praktica and Nikon etc add a phone, wifi web browser, GPS with navigation and an mp3/mp4 player to their cameras I WILL buy one:)
(oh ya, and a radio and games)

But when you use all those functions together you better have a charger nearby! Try shooting for a week on one single charge (around 800 photos taken)...

You wouldn't want to miss the shot of a lifetime... or find out you need the phone function when the battery suddenly dies.

Sam Vimes

Thirdfox wrote:

But when you use all those functions together you better have a charger nearby! Try shooting for a week on one single charge (around 800 photos taken)...

You wouldn't want to miss the shot of a lifetime... or find out you need the phone function when the battery suddenly dies.

yes a camera will last longer than a phone with loads of features and i don't think a phone will ever match a digital camera for quality. However, i have only two pockets so i don't want to carry a phone, gps, camera, nintendo ds, wifi device, mobile email device, calender, watch, ipod, radio, memory stick and camcorder in those two pockets

the benefit of a phone is that it puts all those features in one small device which people will always have with them. There will always be compromises which is why all the devices are still sold individually for those who want to specialise

Guy:Incognito

melekalikimaka wrote:

as said, none of these are actual flash.
]

The K750 and K800 definatley have normal flashes. The rest I dont knwo as I've only used SE for the last couple of years.

Thirdfox

The k750i has led "photo lights" which do not have nearly the same power as a flash (as these lights are constant whereas a xenon flash lasts for 1/6000th of a second).

But camera phones have improved a lot over the years.

BostonB

Stekelly wrote:

The K750 and K800 definatley have normal flashes. The rest I dont knwo as I've only used SE for the last couple of years.

The K750i/W810i have a LED torch. I assume you can mod it to use as a flash. Any info on that?

The K800i and (I assume K810i) have a xenon flash AFAIK.
http://www.newmobile.nl/eur/en/news.php?news_id=caf454

jimmycrackcorm

I bought a flash attachment for my W800i that made the camera usable at night.

BostonB

jimmycrackcorm wrote:

I bought a flash attachment for my W800i that made the camera usable at night.

Maybe thats what he means?

leche solara

I have a K800i and it most definitely has a real flash.
I am very pleased with the pictures I get from this phone, and while I wouldn't consider it as a replacement for my main camera it can often be handy when you don't have the main camera to hand.

Here's some K800 pictures:

http://pix.ie/lechesolara/album/314992