3/4/5 betting with AK???

Macspower

what has me thinking was evaluiation of todays 8 tabling on i-poker.. I got in a lot of hands and am sitting here evaluating the session now..... my biggest loosing hand of the day was AK both suited and os.....

Main reason was my preflop aggression with them... I raise get 3 bet and I 4 bet and he pushes... I have to call and miss vs KK on one occassion and QQ on 2 other occassions.... or I 3 bet and he pushes.......

what I'm really trying to get at is (and not putting it too well I think) to get your opinions on this subject... in the long run is it a +EV play?


It has always been an opinion of mine that I'm not doing a whole lot wrong at levels up to 1/2 if I'm getting 100bb's over the line with AK preflop... normally a few things happen..

1) they fold you win
2) they call with a pair <QQ and your racing
3) they call with a worse A... you win a big % of the time
4) they call with AA or KK ... your kinda in trouble but have outs

I've always thought that the ammount of times they fold or call with a worse A or worse hand and the times you hit in the race should more then make up for the times they have AA or KK....

Am I right??

wasn't good for me today anyway and would have had a very good session if I had toned down my agression with this hand....

whats to be said for calling and mucking if you miss??

Mac

ianmc38

totally dependant on the opponent. obviously 5 betting AI against a NIT is awful whereas against a fish I always felt it

HiCloy

ianmc38 wrote:

totally dependant on the opponent. obviously 5 betting AI against a NIT is awful whereas against a fish I always felt it

Yeah, you also say they call with a worse ace a % of the time, I don't find this happens very often. I'd only be happy to get in PF with AK against reasonably aggro players

I don't like calling and mucking if you miss as you only hit a third of the time
and when an A or K hits JJ/QQ won't give you great value while you'll lose more to AA

phantom_lord

there was an article writen recently in ssnl about 3/4/5 betting ak pf, i didn't actually read it (tl;dr), but going by the replies it was a good piece. anyone happen to have a link?

opr

I posted something on this a long while back cause i was thinking about it alot at the time. I think what Ian says is spot on and this is totally dependant on the opponents.

I had trouble adjusting how i was playing AK after the Tribeca network shut down. I was mainly playing 1/2 but they would 3bet you with rubbish , call 3 bets with rubbish , get it all in preflop with rubbish so playing playing AK agressively was a huge winner.

I didn't stick around long playing on ipoker. After i moved site i found that i was getting beaten up with AK. It was kinda hard cause i had no HUD on the new site and was playing 4/6 tables so it was kinda default that i just 3/4bet and got it all in with AK coming from Tribeca but after a while i could see my results with it were terrible.
When i looked at some of the hands i could see people were not getting it all in against me anymore with things like AJ,KQ stuff that i crushed. If they 3bet it was very rarely light and they didn't tend to call 3 bets light either.

Now while this meant you can run over them in other ways and their hand ranges are very predictable and easy to play against it also meant that in general if i was getting it all in or 3betting with AK preflop i was either crushed or flipping which was bad.

I remember Robin posting that a few respected posters on 2+2 had said getting it in with AK preflop for 100 BB is never going to be a big mistake. When i quoted this in a thread a while back Robin was quick to point out that most of these play on FT where in the games that they play this is true but for alot of other games it may not be.

tl;dr

Cliff notes

ianmc38 wrote:

totally dependant on the opponent. obviously 5 betting AI against a NIT is awful whereas against a fish I always felt it

Opr

Macspower

interesting views opr....

I'm going to tone down my aggression with AK and see how i get on.... only thing that helps is if they notice that you will get it in with AK it helps get action when you have AA or KK....

opr

HiCloy wrote:

I don't like calling and mucking if you miss as you only hit a third of the time
and when an A or K hits JJ/QQ won't give you great value while you'll lose more to AA

You say we miss out on value from JJ,QQ by not raising , How ? Who is going to be ahead on the flop most of the time.
When you 3bet do you not fold out hands like A10+,KJ+ , Are these not the hands that we miss value from when an A or K does fall ?

Opr

mrflash

I was just reading an article on thursday about ak in ring games, and the guy was basically saying that ak should raise every time by 4 in early position and by 3 from one off the cutoff or later, but he also said that calling a raise is totally site and player dependent, and a reraise is unwise in ring games from 1/2 to 3/6 level. This guy was going through the levels and made some interesting points about the most profitable styles of play at both minute levels and higher levels. He also noted that there is a great variance in play from site to site, putting ft and ps as very similar and more tag while rating ub and pacific as a little loser. I will try and find it again as i just cleared my browser history.

mrflash

Heres something from beatthefish

Best Ways to Play AK in Cash Games and Tournaments
written by BeatTheFish.com




...Fishy says, "Big Slick? Where did they come up with that one?"



AK. Big Slick. Ace-King. Walkin’ back to Houston (well, perhaps you haven’t heard that one). A monster of a hand in Hold’em made even more powerful by them both being spades, clubs, hearts, or diamonds. While it may arguably be the 4th best hand you can be dealt in Hold’em (behind pocket Aces, Kings, and Queens) it is a tricky one to pilot your poker guidance around and extract maximum profit from. After all, it is still a drawing hand and not a made one. Even pocket deuces will win more often in the extreme long-run when played heads-up to showdown. In this article I’d like to outline some recommended ways to play AK preflop in different situations.

Ring Games: One of the beauties of Big Slick is the pre-flop pressure that you can put on your opponents. Unless one of your opponents has the rare holding of pocket AA or KK you are no worse than a coin-flip in the hand (remember that two overcards are about a coin-flip pre-flop favorite against a smaller pocket pair). However, one of the key aspects to remember is that the odds say you will only flop a pair about 1 out of 3 times. Since you’re certainly going to miss more often than you hit, it is important to take the lead early in the hand and seize control.

When to Raise: In no-limit ring games I will raise about 70-80 percent of the time whether I am the first one in the pot or following a few limpers. This goes for early, middle, and late positions. You probably have the best hand right now and by raising you can accomplish one of two things (either of which are desirable): you win the hand right away or you build up a pot that you try to take down later. I’ll usually raise 4-6 times the blind in loose online games to try and thin the field.

When to Call: I will just flat-call very rarely preflop with AK (namely the other 20-30 percent of the time) unless someone has made a big raise in front of me. Many players get timid with this hand because they’ve either lost too many big pots with it against a raggedy set or two pair or they don’t know what to do if they don’t flop at least a pair. You shouldn’t change your overall poker strategy based on past bad beats or missed opportunities. The fact is that Ace-King is a big hand that you should welcome seeing. If you just call you’re missing a lot of value when you do flop a big hand or big draw. Besides, you can often outplay your opponent later in the hand even when you have neither. Finally, you welcome bad beats by not thinning the field preflop. The worst mistake you can make is to let in an inferior hand that gets lucky on the flop for cheap and then relieves you of your chips. Still, I will occasionally just call preflop with AK to throw off my opponents and mix up my game.

When to Reraise: Your decision of whether or not to reraise preflop with AK should be more of a situational assessment. Try to base your decision on your position, your table image, the overall flow of the game, and, of course, what you know about your opponent. However, as a general rule, if the pot has already been raised 3-4BB before the action gets to me I will reraise about 2-3x the original raise about 60-70% of the time regardless of how many people are in the pot. If it was already raised and reraised before me, I will probably just call as I could be up against Queens, Kings, or Aces.

Now, if you made a standard raise and you’re the one getting reraised you have three options: fold, call, or reraise again. Folding shouldn’t really be an option unless a large stack goes all-in or puts you all in. If a conservative player puts in a huge reraise I don’t have a problem laying this down in a cash game. The best you can expect here is a coin-flip situation against an underpair and at worst you’re a major underdog. There is no reason to risk your entire stack with this hand in a cash game. There is no pressure to accumulate chips in a fixed-blind situation so why not wait for a better spot? If you’re just looking to get lucky you might as well play Blackjack. The exception to this is when you have an excellent read and feel that you have your opponent dominated or, more likely, you or your opponent is shortstacked (about 40BB or less). Sometimes I’ll just go all-in with AK on the first reraise if I’m shortstacked and suspect my opponent is on a steal, is weak, or is just pushing me around too much for my liking.

When to Call: You could play it safe and just call a reraise, waiting to see what the flop brings. I most often just call with AK as I usually have the best of it when an Ace flops and I can trap my opponent who has something like A-Q. In loose online games, I don’t usually like to risk an enormous amount with AK preflop as your opponent is unlikely to be pushed off a hand. If you raised and were reraised you’re likely out of position in the hand. If you put in another reraise here and your opponent just calls what will you do on the flop if you don’t get help? I recommend just calling much of the time seeing a flop. Of course, that’s just my style. I generally don’t like to risk everything preflop in a deep-stack cash game without Kings or Aces. I’d rather try to outplay my opponents on the flop.

dvdfan

opr wrote:

You say we miss out on value from JJ,QQ by not raising , How ? Who is going to be ahead on the flop most of the time.
When you 3bet do you not fold out hands like A10+,KJ+ , Are these not the hands that we miss value from when an A or K does fall ?

Opr

I think he meant it in the context of flat calling the raise with AK rather than pushing it and then mucking if he missed the flop and then when he does then hit an A or K high flop once in 3 or so anyone with QQ or JJ is not likely to pay him off wheras AA will so just calling is not profitable its either fold or push. Also flat calling we only get to see 3 cards before we have to make the decision to get all in or not and QQ-JJ have the advantage there more often than not. Or am i totally misreading things

opr

I remember at the time when i was having problems with AK searching 2+2 and finding some good threads on the subject which helped me alot. If anyone knows of a few could they post them.

The only one i could find was this

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=6428169&page=0&fpart=all&vc=1&nt=6

Edit : I meant to say if you read this thread you will see how the changing nature of the games has changed peoples opinions on how to play the hand. So as always it depends.

Opr

opr

dvdfan wrote:

I think he meant it in the context of flat calling the raise with AK rather than pushing it and then mucking if he missed the flop and then when he does then hit an A or K high flop once in 3 or so anyone with QQ or JJ is not likely to pay him off wheras AA will so just calling is not profitable its either fold or push. Also flat calling we only get to see 3 cards before we have to make the decision to get all in or not and QQ-JJ have the advantage there more often than not. Or am i totally misreading things

Ah yeah your right sorry i read it wrong didnt realise he was talking in terms of calling the 3bet.

Opr

RedJoker

phantom_lord wrote:

there was an article writen recently in ssnl about 3/4/5 betting ak pf, i didn't actually read it (tl;dr), but going by the replies it was a good piece. anyone happen to have a link?

Theory: AK facing a 3-bet


IMO, it depends on how you play your other hands.

Assuming that my opponent has a tendency to 3 bet light and that we're 100 BB deep. I prefer to call the 3 bet and shove over the cbet. I'll also do this with lots of other hands preflop and will shove the flop with draws, pairs, overpairs, sets, two pairs, overcards/air (on dry boards).

The only time I would 4 bet is if I was OOP and had AK and QQ/some JJs (for deception). I would also 4 bet if somebody was squeezing and the pot was likely to be multiway postflop otherwise.

Macspower

I think the way I play this hand has a huge affect on my results...... For the last few days I toned down my agression with AK and was reluctant to get my stack over the line in a 3/4 bet pot...... things were going well...

In tonights play I got all in twice with AK and lost my stack both times to KK and AA... It's not like it was a while ago getting looked up by AQ and AJ... generally the best I seem to be able to get is a 50/50 shot against QQ if I'm lucky.....

Anyone else find the same?

Macspower

Ok Let me touch on this old chesnut again....

I've been back through my AK histories again from last 2 day and I'm wondering about the following?

Blinds 1/2 stacks 100bb's....

I raise with AK and get 3 bet by a standard TAG.... My move?

1) I call and hope to catch the flop... approx 33% to hit? he c-bets nearly any flop.. so I have to give up 66% of the time on the flop... the times I do hit I don't get much action from QQ and JJ...

2) I 4 bet for half my stack.....he pushes.... I can't fold now..... or he calls and he pushes a non AK flop

3) I 4 bet all in... he calls with QQ+ only and I'm often in trouble.... he also folds a lot of the time..

my question is on number 3... how often does he need to fold to make this play profitable if his calling range is only QQ+

digiman

Macspower wrote:

It's not like it was a while ago getting looked up by AQ and AJ... generally the best I seem to be able to get is a 50/50 shot against QQ if I'm lucky.....

This is completely true, your best hope is JJ/QQ against the vast majority of players on ipoker playing 100NL and 200NL. These games have got a lot tougher I think in the last 6 months imo
I would generally think once you have 3 bet and they 4 bet you are losing money if you go all in as they will rarely have worse than QQ or AK
If they 4 bet then I just call and hope to hit an A unless they have AA of course as its will be almost impossible to get them away from the hand other wise.
This applies to non fish players, with them it will always be profitable to get it allin PF with AK.

DeVore

Macspower wrote:

I think the way I play this hand has a huge affect on my results...... For the last few days I toned down my agression with AK and was reluctant to get my stack over the line in a 3/4 bet pot...... things were going well...

In tonights play I got all in twice with AK and lost my stack both times to KK and AA... It's not like it was a while ago getting looked up by AQ and AJ... generally the best I seem to be able to get is a 50/50 shot against QQ if I'm lucky.....

Anyone else find the same?

You realise America is not playing any more right?!

I cant really imagine people 4 betting or calling 4 bets AI with AJ/AQ. I'm sure they exist but I think you are behind a lot of the times here.

I think shoving when the stacks are anything but short is asking to win a small pot or lose a big one.

DeV.

Macspower

SO whats the profitable move when facing a 3 bet from a standard TAG with AK 100 bb's deep?

If we 4 bet for say half our stack and he 5 bets all in whats next? or we 4 bet and he fold AQ AJ etc etc...

I know what I normally do... but whats your move here guys?

RedJoker

Macspower wrote:

Ok Let me touch on this old chesnut again....

I've been back through my AK histories again from last 2 day and I'm wondering about the following?

Blinds 1/2 stacks 100bb's....

I raise with AK and get 3 bet by a standard TAG.... My move?

1) I call and hope to catch the flop... approx 33% to hit? he c-bets nearly any flop.. so I have to give up 66% of the time on the flop... the times I do hit I don't get much action from QQ and JJ...

2) I 4 bet for half my stack.....he pushes.... I can't fold now..... or he calls and he pushes a non AK flop

3) I 4 bet all in... he calls with QQ+ only and I'm often in trouble.... he also folds a lot of the time..

my question is on number 3... how often does he need to fold to make this play profitable if his calling range is only QQ+

Read the link I posted for a very good discussion about the options you listed.

It depends what my opponents 3 betting range is. At these stakes I'd assume that any decent TAG has a fairly wide 3 betting range in clear re-steal situations. Villain in blinds and you're in CO or BTN, villain is on the BTN and you're in CO.

In position, I call preflop and shove the flop on any A or K high board. I will shove with air sometimes on dry boards. I also do this with other hands.

OOP I 4 bet and call a shove. I don't want to play this hand OOP.


It's also worth noting that both options 2 and 3 are going to be profitable. Personally I think option 1 with a slight modification to postflop play is the most interesting and most profitable. Except in some very extreme circumstances, folding is never the correct option.

dvdfan

Macspower wrote:

Ok Let me touch on this old chesnut again....

I've been back through my AK histories again from last 2 day and I'm wondering about the following?

Blinds 1/2 stacks 100bb's....

I raise with AK and get 3 bet by a standard TAG.... My move?

1) I call and hope to catch the flop... approx 33% to hit? he c-bets nearly any flop.. so I have to give up 66% of the time on the flop... the times I do hit I don't get much action from QQ and JJ...

2) I 4 bet for half my stack.....he pushes.... I can't fold now..... or he calls and he pushes a non AK flop

3) I 4 bet all in... he calls with QQ+ only and I'm often in trouble.... he also folds a lot of the time..

my question is on number 3... how often does he need to fold to make this play profitable if his calling range is only QQ+

Mac i think the above is very dependant on position/Image/Stacks etc, maybe go through 6-10 AK hands that got showdown and post them up with stats and notes etc could make for an interesting discussion on what way you could have played the hand, $1/$2 seems very different from 100nl, with AK ill 3bet and fold to 4bet if hes not a donk and were 100 deep. Ill just flat call a 3bet with AK and depending on villain i might donk bet if i think hes doing it light and capable of folding but mostly im playing hit or miss. Youll get paid of a decent amount if they have KK-JJ on a A or K high against bad players, better players i just let them bluff at the pot and theyll usually shut down after the flop.

Thing is at 100nl and lots of fish ill generally get action with AA-QQ anyway because fish wont be keeping an eye on my raising range so the main reason your 4betting AK is for image to get paid off against regulars which i dont really need to do at 100nl.

If he raises first lets say you are in position now as such because when you 3bet if he 4bets drop AK but push KK+, now hes in a difficult situation with AK,QQ-JJ if you push but he has to risk the 4bet first so you have the advantage.

OOP is where your in a bad situation, he raises you 3bet, he 4bets now if you keep dropping AK here and just 4 bet QQ+ then this is where he gains an advantage as he can narrow your pushing range and play accordingly. However if you push AK your only getting called by a range that crushes AK so playing this way forces him to play correctly.

So what i would do is in position 3bet with AK and drop to a push and also obviously do the same with all your other hands you 3bet light.With KK+ or QQ+ depending on reads push on his 4bet.

So in position your putting the pressure on him, if hes 4betting light hes getting into trouble because your pushing KK+ and hes committed half hes stack so he knows folding and calling is bad here once you push on hes 4bet because its going to have a negative outcome over time no matter wheter he folds or calls the all in.

Then Out of position, mix flat calling the 3bet with AA and AK and 4bet with QQ-KK 75% and 25% with AA. If hes 3betting light with say AQ and flop comes Q high your getting paid alot with AA and if flop comes A high your getting paid against hands like AQ-AJ with AK, now again youve turned the advantage your way and you can get away from AK cheaply enough and still get action when you 4bet and also still get good action from AK and AA on 3bet flops and its not that hard get all in on a 3bet flop. Mix it with RR AA and AK on the flop with no A or K and youll get some good action and take down some pots with Ahigh against JJ-QQ.

Id use the above against regulars and just stick to 4betting donks with AA-KK as youll still get action.

Hectorjelly

position is pretty important, on the button im almost never folding AK against the blinds, if they three bet im always going to 4 bet. Also theres no such thing as a standard tag, whats he like, what type of player is he etc etc

Macspower

one of the million 22/12 players on i-poker = standard tag...

RoadSweeper

Hectorjelly wrote:

whats he like, what type of player is he etc etc

Standard TAG is used in most pieces of poker theory that i come across.
I assume that there is a common understaning of what he's like, but is used in theory as a default type villian who's actions may be considered reasonable/standard ?

Hectorjelly

different tags 3 bet so differently that a strategy for one type is exactly the opposite of the one you would take against another. I cant believe im typing out this post

edit for profanity

Macspower

agreed..... but my standard tag I mean not a donk.....
pretty ok not great but not too bad either......

they do have different qualities though..

I'll root out a few AK hand tomorrow and post some here... HJ do you have a typical HH of an example of 3/4 bet AK hand?

Macspower

A typical sample hand from todays play... this is the play I was talking about ... figures say it should be profitable long run but I've yet to win if called.... maybe i just need to keep at it


Opinions on play?

Green Joker Poker 0.50/1.00, hand converted by the iPoker Converter at Talking-Poker

saw flop | saw showdown

Button HERO ($215.40)
SB fylloberra ($78.05)
BB bondigirl ($164.89)
UTG ImRavenous ($120.60)
UTG+1 Vitalik1991 ($178.60)

Preflop: , 2 folds, HERO raises to 3.50, fylloberra raises to 13.00, 1 fold, HERO moves all-in for 211.90, fylloberra moves all-in for 64.55.

Flop (294.45) 5 T J

Turn (294.45) 6

River (294.45) 9

fylloberra shows Q Q
HERO shows A K

fylloberra wins 294.45 with One pair, Queen

RoadSweeper

Thoughts on this please.

What would yous do?

Villian is 20/15/4 over 270 hands

I was playing 23/16/1 over 50 hands

Green Joker Poker "TURBO" Santa Claus 0.50/1, hand converted by the iPoker Converter at Talking-Poker

saw flop | saw showdown

Button maveryc77 ($67.88)
SB HerpsBeatsHiv ($101.32)
BB Ragnarrokk ($21.85)
UTG RocketX2 ($203.99)
UTG+1 HERO ($111.45)
CO munster12 ($57.29)

Preflop: HERO is UTG+1 with A K
1 fold, HERO raises to 5, 1 fold, maveryc77 calls 5, HerpsBeatsHiv raises to 16



-Do i consider this a squeeze play and shove?
-4 bet?
-Call and fold to cbet if i miss?
-pump it if i hit?

ianmc38

lol i wouldnt shove, but with someone that aggro, id probably 4bet to something like 48 and call a shove. Depends how often he 3 bets, how wide his 3bet/squeeze range is and also how tight you've been playing. The fact that you'e utg+1 may make it less liekly he's squeezing

cardshark202

Why are you 4betting half your stack anyway? At the moment, at 2/4 it would go like open to 16, 3bet to 52ish, 4bet to 130ish or something along those lines.

RoadSweeper

Okay here's what happened then!

The min raise suggested to me that he wanted me in the hand.

He actually let the time go down half way and i thought he might fold.

Is anyone gonna lay this down after a 5 bet?

Green Joker Poker "TURBO" Santa Claus 0.50/1, hand converted by the iPoker Converter at Talking-Poker

saw flop | saw showdown

Button maveryc77 ($67.88)
SB HerpsBeatsHiv ($101.32)
BB Ragnarrokk ($21.85)
UTG RocketX2 ($203.99)
UTG+1 HERO ($111.45)
CO munster12 ($57.29)

Preflop: HERO is UTG+1 with A K
1 fold, HERO raises to 5, 1 fold, maveryc77 calls 5, HerpsBeatsHiv raises to 16, 1 fold, HERO raises to 46, 1 fold, HerpsBeatsHiv raises to 83, HERO moves all-in for 60.45, HerpsBeatsHiv moves all-in for 1.82.

RedJoker

Macspower wrote:

A typical sample hand from todays play... this is the play I was talking about ... figures say it should be profitable long run but I've yet to win if called.... maybe i just need to keep at it


Opinions on play?

Green Joker Poker 0.50/1.00, hand converted by the iPoker Converter at Talking-Poker

saw flop | saw showdown

Button HERO ($215.40)
SB fylloberra ($78.05)
BB bondigirl ($164.89)
UTG ImRavenous ($120.60)
UTG+1 Vitalik1991 ($178.60)

Preflop: , 2 folds, HERO raises to 3.50, fylloberra raises to 13.00, 1 fold, HERO moves all-in for 211.90, fylloberra moves all-in for 64.55.

Flop (294.45) 5 T J

Turn (294.45) 6

River (294.45) 9

fylloberra shows Q Q
HERO shows A K

fylloberra wins 294.45 with One pair, Queen

In position, I like to call preflop. The problem with 4 bet shoving is that if you're called you're likely facing a range of QQ+, AK. Most of the time your opponent folds so this is a profitable play but there are a lot of other far more profitable plays you could make.

This flop is very draw heavy and hits a lot of a light 3 bettors range. Facing a cbet I'd fold here a bit but, with overcards and a gutshot, a shove wouldn't be terrible.

Another thing worth mentioning is that a 4bet doesn't need to be pot sized, by making it smaller it 1) gives you more options and 2) probably only loses very little fold equity compared to a pot sized 4 bet or even a shove.

RedJoker

RoadSweeper wrote:

Okay here's what happened then!

The min raise suggested to me that he wanted me in the hand.

He actually let the time go down half way and i thought he might fold.

Is anyone gonna lay this down after a 5 bet?

Green Joker Poker "TURBO" Santa Claus 0.50/1, hand converted by the iPoker Converter at Talking-Poker

saw flop | saw showdown

Button maveryc77 ($67.88)
SB HerpsBeatsHiv ($101.32)
BB Ragnarrokk ($21.85)
UTG RocketX2 ($203.99)
UTG+1 HERO ($111.45)
CO munster12 ($57.29)

Preflop: HERO is UTG+1 with A K
1 fold, HERO raises to 5, 1 fold, maveryc77 calls 5, HerpsBeatsHiv raises to 16, 1 fold, HERO raises to 46, 1 fold, HerpsBeatsHiv raises to 83, HERO moves all-in for 60.45, HerpsBeatsHiv moves all-in for 1.82.

With the button still to act behind you I think I prefer a 4 bet here, although it might depend on his stats.

After your 4 bet you have half your stack in, no way I'm folding here.

RoadSweeper

Thats partly why i did 4 bet. It looked like a squeeze play to me.

Would you get it AI always here Red?

RedJoker wrote:

Another thing worth mentioning is that a 4bet doesn't need to be pot sized, by making it smaller it 1) gives you more options and 2) probably only loses very little fold equity compared to a pot sized 4 bet or even a shove.

edit: Also how is my bet sizing?

RedJoker

RoadSweeper wrote:

Thats partly why i did 4 bet. It looked like a squeeze play to me.

Would you get it AI always here Red?

Unless he was a super tight nit or I had some crazy accurate read on him. Or I was positive that the button wouldn't call the 3 bet, in which case I'd probably just call and see a flop.

Otherwise I'm getting it in preflop.

RoadSweeper wrote:

edit: Also how is my bet sizing?

I usually make my open 4xBB, your 4 bet is 46 into a 54 pot which is fine.

RoundTower

this is a good example of how having all the helper software in the world can make you play worse

RoadSweeper

Play worse?

He flipped over KK and i turned an A. Optimal play.