Was I cleaned?

stepbar

Yesterday, I took my clio in for a service (to Moynehall Car Sales in Cavan).
I was charged around 270 for the following:

2 wheel cylinders 91.46 + VAT (Not so sure it needed these but no one called me to say they were being put in)
1 Washer Pump 28.56 + VAT (Prob needed)

and...

2 hours labour @ 60eur an hour + VAT :eek:


The thing is I will have to go back again next week to get a speedometer sensor and a back window washer fitted . So I'm looking at another similer amount. Should I bite the bullet and go back? or seek an alternative?

aston

Seems ok to me,E60 per hour isnt bad for main dealer work.
And for service and wheel cyls its not overboard at 2 hrs

Hal1

In that situation I would be asking some serious questions. Why the hell didn't they ring to say they where fitting new parts other than what you originally agreed on. Ask for the old parts back and get reciepts. Cheeky bugers.

Blitzkrieger

You know, I've never heard of main dealer taking a bike/car for a service and not doing something expensive they weren't asked to do. Any dealer I've heard of was charging 80-100 per hour for labour.

The amount of stories I've heard of main dealers blatently ripping people off is ridiculous. I don't know why anybody would ever go to them. The worst story I heard was about a well-known Ford dealer on a certain cross-roads in Cork city. A woman who had bought three cars from there and had been getting them serviced there for 12 years was not allowed drive her car away because she couldn't pay her bill on the spot. She had forgotten her bank-card and only had 150EUR on her. She had brought the car in for a service and was handed a bill for 370. She had also forgotten her mobile and they wouldn't let her use their phone.

confuzed

that's crazy..i have hyundai.. though not a g8 car but never had such experience...
1) they always ring before changing anything.
2) before i go for collecting car, they tell me estimated bill..

but one thing gud main dealer charging €60 per hour.. i pay 90 € per hr.

i suggest u to try some other dealer and try to fix as many things in single go, u may save some money on labour charges.

The tax man

OP that's not that bad considering they actually did some work on your car.

Here's my horror story from a Seat main Stealer in the D.12 area.

First service, 8212mls. (2004)
Usual first minor service,oil change,filter change,sump washer replacement.
Check and adjusted brakes,check engine and diagnostics,checked fluild levels+lights,rotate wheels and fixed faulty rear window washer and rattle on drivers window.
Parts=39.25
Labour=101.58 (they claimed 2hrs)
vat=19.01
Total=159.84

Second service, 15671mls (2005)
Any work carried this time was the exact same as above less the window rattle but add in a replacement air filter.
Rear washer went again and fixed(sticking two bits of pipe work back together)
Parts=59.07
labour=210.00:mad:(they claimed 3 hrs)
vat=36.34
Total=305.41:mad: :mad: :mad:
I had a nice chat with the service manager over the total and how the same work took an extra hour this time around. Weird that when the per hour charge for labour goes up they get slower. But what could I do they have my car and I ain't getting it back until I pay the bill.

Needless to say I don't go anywhere near that dealer these days. I've a fine indie mechanic I use and seeing that this car does very low mileage the next service@22,234,(2006) same as the two above oil+filter and air filter plus a few extra checks and parts, total came to 186.03 incl vat.
Find yourself a good mechanic and save yourself some money.

Max_Damage

^ And this is why I do servicing my car myself!

franksm

Were your rear brakes leaking at all ? That's usually the only reason brake cylinders get changed unless something like the NCT has shown that there's a left/right misbalance in the braking.

You'll not see them without taking the brake drums off, so it would be an easy thing to charge for but not actually change out... They should really have okayed it with you before doing the work - and have shown you the old, leaky pistons afterwards

Guy:Incognito

franksm wrote:

You'll not see them without taking the brake drums off, so it would be an easy thing to charge for but not actually change out... They should really have okayed it with you before doing the work - and have shown you the old, leaky pistons afterwards

Yeah , showing the old part ( or in my case he leaves it in the boot for me. It was a lock mechanism last time. Obviously this doesnt apply to all the parts in a service just major expensive things like above) is standard practice when I've had anything done in Blanch Renault. I know the guy though but I'd expect the same anywhere.

The tax man

Max_Damage wrote:

^ And this is why I do servicing my car myself!

Indeed but I've done a fair few things on myself like fixing the rear washer again and again.Great fun finding all the pipe joints hiding behind panels. Bit of a Macgyver job to fix it permanently but it hasn't failed since and I replaced the window mech on the passenger side door after the cable snapped. I'd hate to think what they'd charge for that job.:eek:
Just want to pass the car on with a FSH.

Darragh29

Blitzkrieger wrote:

You know, I've never heard of main dealer taking a bike/car for a service and not doing something expensive they weren't asked to do. Any dealer I've heard of was charging 80-100 per hour for labour.

The amount of stories I've heard of main dealers blatently ripping people off is ridiculous. I don't know why anybody would ever go to them. The worst story I heard was about a well-known Ford dealer on a certain cross-roads in Cork city. A woman who had bought three cars from there and had been getting them serviced there for 12 years was not allowed drive her car away because she couldn't pay her bill on the spot. She had forgotten her bank-card and only had 150EUR on her. She had brought the car in for a service and was handed a bill for 370. She had also forgotten her mobile and they wouldn't let her use their phone.

It's normal for cars to be held until the bill is paid. I recently (last May), let a customer with the same pathethic sob story as above (forgetting the bank card), leave in her car to go home to get her card and I've spent the last 3 months chasing the stupid bitch down for money and so far I've managed to get 100 Euro out of her. I know it's a pity that people cannot be trusted to come back and pay when they are given a bit of latitude, but in my experience, if the car goes out the door without the bill being paid, you most likely will not get paid at all for it, because Paddy will do anything to get out of paying his bill.

With regard to any garage doing expensive work that is considered to be over and above what is done during a service, the only fault with a garage doing this is if they have not sought and received authorisation from the customer. If you drive a car, you have to accept that car maintenance is a fact of life. It isn't the garage's fault that you need brake pads or an exhaust or shock absorbers, etc. The only problem is if these parts are fitted without your authorisation. If a garage doesn't bring maintenance to your attention, they are not doing their job right. It's your call whether you want it done or not, but I do accept that a garage that just horses parts & labour into your car without your authorisation is completely wrong. A garage that charges you 370 Euro and won't let you use the phone is kind of unbelievable to be honest.

Darragh29

With regard to the OP, it's kind of unusual that her wheel cylinders were replaced but not brake shoes also.

_Kaiser_

Is it standard practise for garages not to give you a price for the work done until you go to pick up the car? I got mine done 6 months ago at the usual 10k interval and asked several times how much it'd cost, only to be given vague answers and an approximate figure.

When I went to pick it up they had me a somewhat more substantial 3-figure bill than what I was told initially. Fair enough, extra parts were needed, but slightly over half the bill was bloody labour! No choice but to pay it of course at that stage, but in my opinion, it should work like this..

- bring car in
- report any issues noticed beyond what's covered in the "standard service"
- get quote for the work and time required.. at this point the customer can walk away if they think it's too steep/can get better elsewhere
- if anything else is discovered amiss, customer should be called with details, revised price and time estimates.
- customer collects car and pays amount agreed (in my case I had to goto the bank machine to cover the extra they wanted)

I can't think of any other service where a customer isn't told upfront what the work will cost. My car is dur another service now (I do a lot of mileage) and needs new brake pads as well as the "usual stuff" - I dread to think what it'll cost this time.

JoeySully

Darragh29 wrote:

With regard to the OP, it's kind of unusual that her wheel cylinders were replaced but not brake shoes also.

Yeah if there was a leaky cylinder then the shoes shold also have been replaced

Darragh29

Kaiser2000 wrote:

Is it standard practise for garages not to give you a price for the work done until you go to pick up the car? I got mine done 6 months ago at the usual 10k interval and asked several times how much it'd cost, only to be given vague answers and an approximate figure.

When I went to pick it up they had me a somewhat more substantial 3-figure bill than what I was told initially. Fair enough, extra parts were needed, but slightly over half the bill was bloody labour! No choice but to pay it of course at that stage, but in my opinion, it should work like this..

- bring car in
- report any issues noticed beyond what's covered in the "standard service"
- get quote for the work and time required.. at this point the customer can walk away if they think it's too steep/can get better elsewhere
- if anything else is discovered amiss, customer should be called with details, revised price and time estimates.
- customer collects car and pays amount agreed (in my case I had to goto the bank machine to cover the extra they wanted)

I can't think of any other service where a customer isn't told upfront what the work will cost. My car is dur another service now (I do a lot of mileage) and needs new brake pads as well as the "usual stuff" - I dread to think what it'll cost this time.

I hope this comes across in the right way, but I don't see why you accept this. You are legally entitled to refuse to pay for any work that you have not authorised and leave in your car, once you pay the bill that you have authorised. I can't understand how people accept this, the case in hand probably relates to a main dealer, I know in my indy garage, I just wouldn't get away with not getting additional work authorised, my customers know me personally and expect me to call them if the bill is going up, it wouldn't be accepted that I just present a bill over and above the price of what was quoted and agreed for a service. Main dealers do this, and I blame the customer 100% for letting them away with it. If you don't accept this and tell the dealer that you are leaving with your car after paying your bill for the service and not the additional unauthorised work, you'd soon see an end to this nonsense. If the dealer decided that your car had a few scratches down the side and as his workshop was a bit empty, he decided to respray your car and add that onto your service, would you pay it??? I bet fu*king not!

_Kaiser_

Darragh29 wrote:

I hope this comes across in the right way, but I don't see why you accept this. You are legally entitled to refuse to pay for any work that you have not authorised and leave in your car, once you pay the bill that you have authorised. I can't understand how people accept this, the case in hand probably relates to a main dealer, I know in my indy garage, I just wouldn't get away with not getting additional work authorised, my customers know me personally and expect me to call them if the bill is going up, it wouldn't be accepted that I just present a bill over and above the price of what was quoted and agreed for a service. Main dealers do this, and I blame the customer 100% for letting them away with it. If you don't accept this and tell the dealer that you are leaving with your car after paying your bill for the service and not the additional unauthorised work, you'd soon see an end to this nonsense. If the dealer decided that your car had a few scratches down the side and as his workshop was a bit empty, he decided to respray your car and add that onto your service, would you pay it??? I bet fu*king not!

No you're right... but it was an independent - guy I bought it from actually - rather than a main dealer.

I dropped it in first thing and was told to call about 2pm. So I did and they told me that there was extra work needed, and to give them till 5pm. What annoyed me was they wouldn't/couldn't? give me a firm figure but I was told it'd be about €350 (fair enough) but the reality was nearly double that AND an extra day cause after they'd stripped the gearbox when they discovered the parts they needed had to be sourced from a garage in another county (she's automatic and what was happening is that when she was cold, she'd occasionally "pause" before moving off again when stopped at a junction/lights. Once warmed up though, all was fine)

Initially they were gonna leave me without a car for the intervening day as well (I needed it for work, and had already taken a day off to drop it in to them), but when I got down to the garage they'd found a Merc E200 for me.

Like I say, what annoyed me is the fact that they wouldn't give me the final figure till I went to get the car. If I'd known that, I'd have told them to put her back together and gone elsewhere (as she was running ok otherwise). Live and learn I guess.. I won't be bringing it back to them this time.

wingnut

My local Ford dealer has set prices for services. I think its mad to be charged hourly labour for a standard service. Whats to stop them taking an 'extra hour' and raking it in.

Jo King

Darragh29 wrote:

It's normal for cars to be held until the bill is paid. I recently (last May), let a customer with the same pathethic sob story as above (forgetting the bank card), leave in her car to go home to get her card and I've spent the last 3 months chasing the stupid bitch down for money and so far I've managed to get 100 Euro out of her. I know it's a pity that people cannot be trusted to come back and pay when they are given a bit of latitude, but in my experience, if the car goes out the door without the bill being paid, you most likely will not get paid at all for it, because Paddy will do anything to get out of paying his bill.

With regard to any garage doing expensive work that is considered to be over and above what is done during a service, the only fault with a garage doing this is if they have not sought and received authorisation from the customer. If you drive a car, you have to accept that car maintenance is a fact of life. It isn't the garage's fault that you need brake pads or an exhaust or shock absorbers, etc. The only problem is if these parts are fitted without your authorisation. If a garage doesn't bring maintenance to your attention, they are not doing their job right. It's your call whether you want it done or not, but I do accept that a garage that just horses parts & labour into your car without your authorisation is completely wrong. A garage that charges you 370 Euro and won't let you use the phone is kind of unbelievable to be honest.

If yiour customer hasn't paid there may be an offence under S7 of the Theft & Fraud Offences Act 2001.


"(1) A person who dishonestly, with the intention of making a gain for himself or herself or another, or of causing loss to another, by any deception obtains services from another is guilty of an offence.


(2) For the purposes of this section a person obtains services from another where the other is induced to confer a benefit on some person by doing some act, or causing or permitting some act to be done, on the understanding that the benefit has been or will be paid for.


(3) Without prejudice to the generality of subsection (2), a person obtains services where the other is induced to make a loan, or to cause or permit a loan to be made, on the understanding that any payment (whether by way of interest or otherwise) will be or has been made in respect of the loan.


(4) A person guilty of an offence under this section is liable on conviction on indictment to a fine or imprisonment for a term not exceeding 5 years or both."

Tell her you are going to the guards. If they won't prosecute then initiate a private criminal prosecution and complain to the Garda Ombudsman. this is relatively new law but has been used against people successfully on a number of occasions.

crosstownk

stepbar wrote:

Yesterday, I took my clio in for a service (to Moynehall Car Sales in Cavan).
I was charged around 270 for the following:

2 wheel cylinders 91.46 + VAT (Not so sure it needed these but no one called me to say they were being put in)
1 Washer Pump 28.56 + VAT (Prob needed)

and...

2 hours labour @ 60eur an hour + VAT :eek:


The thing is I will have to go back again next week to get a speedometer sensor and a back window washer fitted . So I'm looking at another similer amount. Should I bite the bullet and go back? or seek an alternative?

Sounds reasonable for the work done. However, not informing you of additional work/charges is bad form. Then there's the shoes that weren't replaced - that's odd.

Darragh29

crosstownk wrote:

Sounds reasonable for the work done. However, not informing you of additional work/charges is bad form. Then there's the shoes that weren't replaced - that's odd.

Yeah, the fact that brake shoes weren't replaced makes me wonder what this garage are actually charging you for.

stepbar

Thanks for the replies so far. The more I think about it, I suspect that I've been taken for a bit of a gombeen. Anyhow its a lesson learned.