3 100nl Hands

dvdfan

Hand 1: Results to be posted later

Noble Poker 0.50/1.00, hand converted by the iPoker Converter at Talking-Poker

Button ($93.60)
SB Hero ($122.15)
BB ($100.00)
UTG ($206.36)
UTG+1 ($97.35)
CO ($100.00)

Preflop: Hero is in the SB with 8c 8d
3 folds, Button raises to 4.00, Hero calls 3.50, BB raises to 13.00, 1 fold, Hero calls 10.00.

Flop (32.00) 7s 9s Td
Hero checks, BB bets 14.00, Hero ???

Villain is 19/15/4.6 over 700 hands Went to SD 17% Won at SD 62% Flop Agression 7.0

I dont hes 3betting light against 2 players so i put hes range on AA-JJ and AK here, given hes stats whats our best line now?

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Hand 2:

Noble Poker 0.50/1.00, hand converted by the iPoker Converter at Talking-Poker

Button ($199.10)
SB ($95.00)
BB ($96.50)
UTG ($177.65)
UTG+1 ($100.00)
CO Hero ($316.60)

Preflop: Hero is in the CO with Js Ad
2 folds, Hero raises to 3.50, 1 fold, SB calls 3.00, BB calls 2.50.

Flop (10.50) 4d 5d 3d
SB checks, BB checks, Hero bets 7.50, SB calls 7.50, BB calls 7.50.

Turn (33.00) 6d
SB checks, BB checks, Hero checks.

River (33.00) Th
SB bets 31.00, 1 fold, Hero calls 31.00

Villains:
SB 24/19/2.64 over 300 hands Went ot SD 23% Won at SD 45% River Agression 1.0
BB 21/10/1.4 Went ot SD 36% Won at SD 54%

comments on all streets?

---

Hand 3:

Noble Poker 0.50/1.00, hand converted by the iPoker Converter at Talking-Poker

Button Hero ($115.10)
SB ($349.80)
BB ($100.00)
UTG ($43.00)
UTG+1 ($225.20)

Preflop: Hero is on the Button with Th Td
2 folds, Hero raises to 3.50, SB calls 3.00, 1 fold.

Flop (8.00) 8d 8c 2s
SB checks, Hero bets 6.00, SB calls 6.00.

Turn (20.00) 6h
SB checks, Hero bets 12.00, SB raises to 30.00, Hero calls 18.00.

River (80.00) 9d
SB bets 50.00, Hero ???

Villain is 32/13/2.87 over 1k hands Went to SD 26% Won At SD 47%
I have a note on villain saying he got very agressive with air on scary board, i expect him to 3bet with QQ-AA and possibly with JJ but i suppose 8 is possibly in his range given his V$PIP but hes line dosent add up if he has an 8. Comments on all streets and what now call or fold?

cooker3

Hand 1
Fold to the 3 bet, you don't have the odds and are oop. It's an easy fold considering your read

Hand 2
Bet turn, Bet river. Your scared of stright flush? Screw that, just pump it

Hand 3
Tricky one but given your read I suppose it's a call although readless I would fold it

dvdfan

cooker3 wrote:

Hand 1
Fold to the 3 bet, you don't have the odds and are oop. It's an easy fold considering your read

Yeah should have ditched it preflop, ive 49.5 equity vs hes 50.5% equity so its actually alot closer. I think given hes stats he would fold JJ here and AK so if i 3bet here i also have FE

Text results appended to pokerstove.txt

39,600 games 0.047 secs 842,553 games/sec

Board: 7s 9s Td
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 49.585% 48.97% 00.61% 19394 241.50 { 8c8d }
Hand 1: 50.415% 49.81% 00.61% 19723 241.50 { JJ+, AKs, AKo }

ianmc38

Hand 1 I would 3bet myself in that spot

Hand 2 Looks ok.

Hand 3 I'd check the turn unless he's likely to give you 3 streets of value with 55

mrflash

Hand 1
I had a very similar hand today myself, with open end str8 draw and one overcard, the guy against me had similar stats, similar betting patterns, but i called the river bet and he had a10 suited for top pair with ace kicker. but i will fold the next couple of times.

Hand 2
Bet turn, i think the call is right, there are two cards that beat you, no need to go crazy without the nuts.

Hand 3
I would have folded this to reraise.

sikes

mrflash wrote:

but i will fold the next couple of times.

mrflash

whats that about sikes?

opr

dvdfan wrote:

Yeah should have ditched it preflop, ive 49.5 equity vs hes 50.5% equity so its actually alot closer. I think given hes stats he would fold JJ here and AK so if i 3bet here i also have FE

Text results appended to pokerstove.txt
39,600 games 0.047 secs 842,553 games/sec
Board: 7s 9s Td
Dead:
equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 49.585% 48.97% 00.61% 19394 241.50 { 8c8d }
Hand 1: 50.415% 49.81% 00.61% 19723 241.50 { JJ+, AKs, AKo }

Yeah i like the 3 bet here but i don't like the way your looking at the hand or calculating that a 3 bet is good here. Why are you looking at your hand versus his entire range and the win% ?

I mean once you 3bet He is never calling with most AK hands only AsKs. So when calculating your win% here after getting called it would be something like the below taking into account you think he folds JJ.

Text results appended to pokerstove.txt
18,810 games 0.005 secs 3,762,000 games/sec
Board: 7s 9s Td
Dead:
equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 36.999% 36.38% 00.61% 6844 115.50 { 8c8d }
Hand 1: 63.001% 62.39% 00.61% 11735 115.50 { QQ+, AsKs }

What you should be thinking about is your equity in the pot if called which is as above about 40%.
Once your equity is this high we know that if we raise and Villian folds a certain % of the time this becomes profitable. Fimbulwinter posts on 2+2 are excellent on this.

Opr

TommyGunne

Hand 1: I raise to 65 here lots. Fold to further aggression from him. Folding is weak with big draw and opponent likely to c-bet lots.

"Flop Agression 7.0"

Calling lets AJ-AK draw to overs on an admittedly scary board. Make your decision making easy and put decision on him!

Hand 2: I'd do the same. Probably better to let either of the 2 opponents to try either 1) bluff river or 2) try a value bet on the river with a worse flush.
Betting turn isnt horrendous though.

Hand 3: Check turn.

dvdfan

opr wrote:

Yeah i like the 3 bet here but i don't like the way your looking at the hand or calculating that a 3 bet is good here. Why are you looking at your hand versus his entire range and the win% ?

I mean once you 3bet He is never calling with most AK hands only AsKs. So when calculating your win% here after getting called it would be something like the below taking into account you think he folds JJ.

Text results appended to pokerstove.txt
18,810 games 0.005 secs 3,762,000 games/sec
Board: 7s 9s Td
Dead:
equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 36.999% 36.38% 00.61% 6844 115.50 { 8c8d }
Hand 1: 63.001% 62.39% 00.61% 11735 115.50 { QQ+, AsKs }

What you should be thinking about is your equity in the pot if called which is as above about 40%.
Once your equity is this high we know that if we raise and Villian folds a certain % of the time this becomes profitable. Fimbulwinter posts on 2+2 are excellent on this.

Opr

Thanks OPR, nice post, something i hadnt considered and this is obviously the best way to calculate things.

Is this the right way to calculate how often he folds given his range is JJ+, AKo+ and hell fold AK and JJ

16 x AK hands
6 x AA
6 x KK
6 x QQ
6 x JJ
Total of 40 hands and hell fold 22 of those. So hell fold 55% of hands.

Seems a bit too high am i giving too much weight to AK?

Edited to correct doh! mistake pointed out by sikes!

TommyGunne

It seems a bit too high for a number of reasons.
1) He will often call flop when he shouldn't. It is a gambling site after!
2) Surely it is not out of the possible for a 19/15 player to 3bet pre with 77, 88, 99, TT which will gaive further action?(Maybe!) He may even 3bet with junk that has somehow connected with this flop.
3) He would not fold JJ here always.

He donk-c-bets. You are in perfect position for cr against a player with high flop aggression. If he calls you have outs.

His c-betting range here should be quite wide, yet you are not in a lock position against any of it. You can't call and hope to hit an 8-outer.

sikes

16 + 24 = 30?

mrflash

That pic earlier, is that you sikes?

sikes

mrflash wrote:

That pic earlier, is that you sikes?

No, i thought i had manged to find out who you were imitating. I had assumed you have been dropping hints for the last while. I worked it out in a flash inspiration. Firstly I discovered you had a quote in your sig by Napoleon Bonaparte then I coupled that with your name, mr flash, flash which I associate with explosions, which I associate with dynamite.

Hence, I figured that you are imitating Mr. Dynamite. Do I win a prize?

opr

dvdfan wrote:

Thanks OPR, nice post, something i hadnt considered and this is obviously the best way to calculate things.

Is this the right way to calculate how often he folds given his range is JJ+, AKo+ and hell fold AK and JJ

16 x AK hands
6 x AA
6 x KK
6 x QQ
6 x JJ
Total of 40 hands and hell fold 22 of those. So hell fold 55% of hands.

Seems a bit too high am i giving too much weight to AK?

Edited to correct doh! mistake pointed out by sikes!

Yeah this is ok for trying to guesstimate how often he folds. The problem is you never know exactly how often he will fold as each situation is different. Alot of player may not c-bet Ak at all here but check fold , some player may call with JJ others might not etc.

What you work out is how often the player needs to fold to make the shove profitable and then use your judgement and guesstimate to make a informed choice on if you think it will be profitable to SHOVE

So here lets say to make the calc easy that we are going to shove.

If we get all in the pot will be 188. We get back .37 of it in equity, which is $70. Weve another 81 to go in, giving us a net equity loss of $11

If he folds we get $44

=> 44x = 44x + (1- x)[(.37)(188) - 81 ]
= 44x + 11x - 11
= 55x = 11
x = 1/5 ~ 20%

If anyone sees a mistake in my maths point it out please

So if he folds more than 20% of the time its profitable. So as you can see because of your read that he folds JJ and the AK hands he will fold pushing here is very good.

Over time you get an idea and feel for different situations with the different types of draws VS opponent ranges.

Opr

opr

You might already have this but just in case heres a link that explains it in huge detail and gives more examples of how to work out how much FE you need in these type of situations.

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Board=ssplnlpoker&Number=3069765

Opr

mrflash

sikes wrote:

No, i thought i had manged to find out who you were imitating. I had assumed you have been dropping hints for the last while. I worked it out in a flash inspiration. Firstly I discovered you had a quote in your sig by Napoleon Bonaparte then I coupled that with your name, mr flash, flash which I associate with explosions, which I associate with dynamite.

Hence, I figured that you are imitating Mr. Dynamite. Do I win a prize?

That sounds really geeky, lol, i never heard of mr. dynamite before now. but having that sense of logic and from the hints you have been dropping over the last while, i would love to get you at cash table sometime. And after i take all your money, then i'd love to show you my impression of thepirat in galway. and i'm sure we will meet up at some stage, soon!

dvdfan

opr wrote:

You might already have this but just in case heres a link that explains it in huge detail and gives more examples of how to work out how much FE you need in these type of situations.

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Board=ssplnlpoker&Number=3069765

Opr

Cheers OPR, ill have a read of that.

sikes

mrflash wrote:

That sounds really geeky, lol,

LOL indeed.

But i think I speak for everyone on baords, when I say if we have a table with 8 random boards posters and yourself, you would certainly be the one wearing this.

mrflash

But i think I speak for everyone on baords, when I say if we have a table with 8 random boards posters and yourself, you would certainly be the one wearing this.

firstly speak for yourself
secondly, i have played with a lot of these guys, and have won money off a lot of them too.

finally you are just an insulting moron, who just browses around the posts looking for mistakes and chances to pick on others. really the problem with you is that your mummy didn't put you across her knee and spank you when you were a small kid(as i reckon you are still quite young and immature), and because of this you now have a need for this type of treatment and you have become so frustrated that you find it hard to get it up, and maybe insulting peoples post's on here is what gets you off. But really you have a sad life and i doubt if it will ever improve. finally, we will meet some day, and lets see how you feel when that happens, you might feel like piddling down the side of your pants when you meet me.

sikes

mrflash wrote:

finally you are just an insulting moron,

I wouldn't call myself a moron, though this seems to fit your persona perfectly.

mrflash wrote:

who just browses around the posts looking for mistakes and chances to pick on others. really the problem with you is that your mummy didn't put you across her knee and spank you when you were a small kid(as i reckon you are still quite young and immature)

As opposed to you being old, mature?

mrflash wrote:

, and because of this you now have a need for this type of treatment and you have become so frustrated that you find it hard to get it up, and maybe insulting peoples post's on here is what gets you off. But really you have a sad life and i doubt if it will ever improve. finally, we will meet some day, and lets see how you feel when that happens, you might feel like piddling down the side of your pants when you meet me.

I look forward to meeting you.

dvdfan

Ok this one got a little side tracked, i think Sikes and Mr.Flash are going to be playing headsup for bankrolls soon:D

So heres the results:

Hand 1:

Noble Poker 0.50/1.00, hand converted by the iPoker Converter (http://www.talking-poker.com/hands/converter.aspx) at Talking-Poker (http://www.talking-poker.com)

Button ($93.60)
SB Hero ($122.15)
BB ($100.00)
UTG ($206.36)
UTG+1 ($97.35)
CO ($100.00)

Preflop: Hero is in the SB with 8c 8d
3 folds, Button raises to 4.00, Hero calls 3.50, BB raises to 13.00, 1 fold, Hero calls 10.00.

Flop (32.00) 7s 9s Td
Hero checks, BB bets 14.00, Hero raises to 60.00, 1 fold

Hero shows 8c 8d

Hero wins 106.00 with One pair, Eight


Hand 2:

Noble Poker 0.50/1.00, hand converted by the iPoker Converter (http://www.talking-poker.com/hands/converter.aspx) at Talking-Poker (http://www.talking-poker.com)

Button ($199.10)
SB ($95.00)
BB ($96.50)
UTG ($177.65)
UTG+1 ($100.00)
CO Hero ($316.60)

Preflop: Hero is in the CO with Js Ad
2 folds, Hero raises to 3.50, 1 fold, SB calls 3.00, BB calls 2.50.

Flop (10.50) 4d 5d 3d
SB checks, BB checks, Hero bets 7.50, SB calls 7.50, BB calls 7.50.

Turn (33.00) 6d
SB checks, BB checks, Hero checks.

River (33.00) Th
SB bets 31.00, 1 fold, Hero calls 31.00

Hero shows Js Ad
SB shows 2d 2c

SB wins 95.00 with Straight (Diamonds) with Six high


Hand 3:


Noble Poker 0.50/1.00, hand converted by the iPoker Converter (http://www.talking-poker.com/hands/converter.aspx) at Talking-Poker (http://www.talking-poker.com)

Button Hero ($115.10)
SB ($349.80)
BB ($100.00)
UTG ($43.00)
UTG+1 ($225.20)

Preflop: Hero is on the Button with Th Td
2 folds, Hero raises to 3.50, SB calls 3.00, 1 fold.

Flop (8.00) 8d 8c 2s
SB checks, Hero bets 6.00, SB calls 6.00.

Turn (20.00) 6h
SB checks, Hero bets 12.00, SB raises to 30.00, Hero calls 18.00.

River (80.00) 9d
SB bets 50.00, Hero calls 50.00

Hero shows Th Td
SB shows Qs Jh

Hero wins 180.00 with Two pair, Ten's and Eight's with a Nine for a kicker

Van Dice

Hand 1 - I fold to the 3bet. As played, I don't think just calling would be terrible, cos a raise never gets called by a hand which we are favourite against, and I think due to so many draws being out there, he doesn't ever fold a better hand than ours. If he has AK he shuts down anyway, and it's not as if your hand is strong enough to protect or anything. His bet size on the flop is a bit weird, looks like TT or AK, overpair bets more?
However I can't argue with opr's posts, and shoving is probably best.

Hand 2
Interesting one. I definitely bet the turn, it's the best way to get max value from a set/Kd. On the river I definitely like the call. The only way he can have 2d is 22, and the 7d is with 77 or 8d7d, but it's very hard to see a raise having much value here.

Hand 3
I check behind turn. Don't know why you think his line doesn't add up if he has an 8, that's exactly what it looks like to me. That or a house. I would fold here almost always without history, but given your read against this guy, suppose a call is ok

Van Dice

lol it took me over an hour to type 1 post :rolleyes:, thats what happens when playing 6 tables. anyway wp on all 3 hands.

dvdfan

On Hand 3: I just taught the c/call on flop was weird id expect him to bet or c/raise and not just check/call but i suppose someone might play the 8 like this so i was probably reading too much into nothing, maybe its that voice in my head

Anyway thanks for all the replies

dvdfan

opr wrote:

You might already have this but just in case heres a link that explains it in huge detail and gives more examples of how to work out how much FE you need in these type of situations.

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Board=ssplnlpoker&Number=3069765

Opr

Can someone help me out on this math problem taken from the above link

Our Hand KK no spades
Flop K72 all of spades
Opponent has Flush

When he has a flush, we are behind, but we have outs to improve to quads or a full house, namely we have 1 K, 3 7's and 3 2's to improve on the turn and 3 more outs if we don't make it on the river. quick head math gives 4(turn outs)+2(river outs) = 4*7+2*3 (so we don't double count) = 35% to improve to the full house and win.

Ok so we have 7 outs on turn and a further 3 outs on the river but where is the 4* and 2* coming from, probably something simple but i just cant understand it?????????

opr

dvdfan wrote:

Can someone help me out on this math problem taken from the above link



Ok so we have 7 outs on turn and a further 3 outs on the river but where is the 4* and 2* coming from, probably something simple but i just cant understand it?????????

You know the rule of thumb that if you multiply your number of outs on flop by 4 it gives you the percentage chance of hitting your outs by the river and if you multiply your number of outs by 2 if gives you the chance of hitting it by one card.

So here you have 7 outs on the flop so we mutiply by 4 to get 28% chance of hitting by the river but on the turn we pick up a further 3 outs so we multiply this by 2 to get 6% and then add them both to give us the total chance of improving to a full house by the river.

Opr

dvdfan

cheers again OPR

Van Dice

opr wrote:

You know the rule of thumb that if you multiply your number of outs on flop by 4 it gives you the percentage chance of hitting your outs by the river and if you multiply your number of outs by 2 if gives you the chance of hitting it by one card.

So here you have 7 outs on the flop so we mutiply by 4 to get 28% chance of hitting by the river but on the turn we pick up a further 3 outs so we multiply this by 2 to get 6% and then add them both to give us the total chance of improving to a full house by the river.

Opr

nerd