Advice needed vs a GSM company

carbie

Hi,

I've been a long time customer of an Irish GSM company, roughly nine years this July. The number I had with them though, got de-activated in December, 2006. Due to the number not being in use.

Fair enough.

On the 27th of July, I walked into one of the companies main shops. I greeted the assistant and queried him about re-activating my number. Several minutes later, I received a sim pack and was informed that my sim would be activated tomorrow and that I would receive a call from the "team".

The following day, I never received a call. And with that, I went off two weeks later and purchased a mobile that would operate on their network.

I insert the simcard only to find "simcard registration failed". Fine, I said. So I contacted them.

When I got through to customer service, I was informed that the sim card had been activated and giving to another customer, on the 10th of August. To my disgust, the blame was being put onto the dealer of the sim card - the assistant who had handed me the sim pack! Apparently, the number "could" of been available. This was not the message received by the dealer. The dealer was told on the phone, that the card would be activated the following day, period.


Myself and the dealer, were not informed that the phone number had been issued into a new "sim pool". Nor was the customer service team that the dealer was corresponding with! For if they had of known, they would of surely informed me of an alternative route in obtaining the number. (Remember, it was the 27th of July - The sim card was bought on the 10th of August, 14 days after I had called.)

In the end, the person I was dealing with "kind" of admitted it was their fault but they were quite persistant in telling me that they can cut off any number if it has not been in use for 6 months.

You see, I understand that. I understand every bit of that. What I do not understand, however, is how can a company guarentee it's dealer that a sim card will be active, with the original number for the following day and then sell the number to another customer whilst getting away with it.

Do I have a leg to stand on?

PeakOutput

i dont really think this is a legal issue its more of a consumer one.

do you expect them to take the number back off the person they have given it to and give it to you?

mistakes happen keeping the mistakes to a minimum is what good customer service is about. I really cant see what kind of legal action you think you can take. If you are that unhappy with the company then dont give them your business

Tom Young

Ring ComReg and don't hold you breath. I understand the quarantine period for numbers i.e., once they are not in use is about 24 months on the regular old phone networks. Not sure for mobile, but they are usually keeping them inactive for about 12 months, depending on whether they are pre-paid or not. Pre-pay is lesser.

Per Peakout, if its not a life and death matter you might waste an awful lot of time trying to chase it down.

ComReg can at least try resolve, their consumer team are relatively alright.

chrislad

You don't have a leg to stand on. All terms and conditons say that the number remains the property of the company at all times, so you never actually own your number. It's unfortunate that they messed up but there's little you can do bar appeal to them.

jahalpin

chrislad wrote:

You don't have a leg to stand on. All terms and conditons say that the number remains the property of the company at all times, so you never actually own your number. It's unfortunate that they messed up but there's little you can do bar appeal to them.

If the number belongs to the company, how can the customer transfer it betwen networks at will. I have taken my 087 from Vodafone to O2 to meteor and am now with 3. That would imply that the customer owns the number and not the mobile provider

chrislad

From Meteor.ie

11. SIM card and Telephone Number

You do not own the mobile phone number allocated to you. We can change the Number at our discretion and will not be liable for any loss or damage, direct or indirect, which might arise from such change.
The Meteor SIM remains our property at all times

From O2.ie


9. Number SIM Card and Mobile Phone

9.1. You acknowledge that you have no proprietary rights to the Mobile Phone number or SIM Card allocated to you and you acknowledge our ownership of these and the fact that these are used by you on the basis of a license from us. We reserve the right to withdraw this number or SIM Card at any time.

9.2. The Mobile Phone and SIM Card is locked onto the Network, preventing use on any other network. Should you wish to use the Mobile Phone on any other network, or the SIM card in any other Mobile Phone, you must meet certain qualifying criteria before we supply you with an unlocking code. Such criteria may include a requirement that you top-up your Account to a minimum amount (in addition to any free credit which may have been provided to you). Details of this amount are available by calling customer care on 1747 (from your Handset) or 1850 60 1747 (from any other handset in Ireland).


From Vodafone.ie

8 Numbers and SIM card

8.1 The Customer shall not have any proprietary rights whatsoever in any mobile phone number allocated to the Customer by Vodafone from time to time. Vodafone reserves the right at any time to alter or replace a mobile phone number allocated to the Customer or any other name, code or number whatsoever associated with the Service.

8.1 Vodafone shall issue the Customer with and license the Customer to use a Vodafone SIM Card on the condition that the Vodafone SIM Card shall remain the property of Vodafone and shall be returned to Vodafone upon request. Vodafone may charge the Customer for the cost of checking, repairing or replacing a SIM Card.




I don't make the rules

stereo_steve

Is there not a contradiction when you switch network?

I used to be with 02 and now I'm with Meteor. I took my number with me. Surely there must be some recognition that the number which apparently was o2's property, was given free to Meteor at my discretion.

In fact all users can state they wish to take "their" number to another company. I couldn't however move the plant pot in the O2 lobby to the Meteor lobby as this truly is their property!

Lets not forget that O2/Meteor/Vodafone/Three could write a clause stating that they are allowed to send a representative over to your house at three in the morning to stab you mother in law. Doesn't mean it will hold up in court!

If Meteor withdrew my number tomorrow and gave it to another user and I hadn't missed a payment to them. I would take action and be confident to win it!

PeakOutput

the switching of numbers between providers is an agreement between the providers not between you and the new provider.

the companies have agreed between themselves to allow this as it takes one more obstruction away from people who want to change companies. vodafone can decide at any time not to allow their numbers be transfered if they want

edit; also im fairly sure that even if you change your number to a new network anyone calling you will still go to the original network first and then get forwarded on to the new network. for example if you ring an 087 number that has been moved to 3 you get onto the vodafone netwrok which realises the number has been moved and passes it onto the 3 network. i could be wrong about this bit but im fairly sure

stereo_steve

Your actually telling me that tomorrow if I ring Vodafone and request to port my number from Meteor. Meteor can say no? I don't think thats the case.

I'm 99% sure that Comreg have setup legislation?

edit; also im fairly sure that even if you change your number to a new network anyone calling you will still go to the original network first and then get forwarded on to the new network. for example if you ring an 087 number that has been moved to 3 you get onto the vodafone netwrok which realises the number has been moved and passes it onto the 3 network. i could be wrong about this bit but im fairly sure

I understand the technical side of coms...unfortunately my legal knowledge is not on a par

I for example am a Meteor customer with an 086 number. The Meteor network knows that I am a customer and another Meteor customer calling me will go straight to my phone. There is no need to look outside the network.

If the person is not on the network, then it will go to what it thinks is the default. This is a nightmare scenario when you are on holiday with your friends. You may be 10 meters away from each other but the call gets routed through your home network. This means expensive bills :eek: Remember to deactivate your voice mail when away!

chrislad

Number portability is, as far as I know, an agreement between ComReg and the operators. I don't think any of them are bound to it the way, say, they are to the new EU roaming rates. It makes good business sense for all of them to do it though. All 087 numbers remain the property of Vodafone, 086 O2 etc

philcsl

stereo_steve wrote:

Your actually telling me that tomorrow if I ring Vodafone and request to port my number from Meteor. Meteor can say no? I don't think thats the case.

It is the case, any network can refuse to release a number provided they have a valid reason. There is a voluntary code of conduct between networks, in the case of a major dispute Comreg will adjudicate.

- If a prepaid customer has signed a Customer Authorisation Form (CAF) there is no reason why the network would stop you from porting as it is a relatively low value customer.

- If a SME or corporate client decides to port, the donor network (the one you are leaving) must be given minimum 24 hours notice from the receiving network. This time period is to:
a) Confirm that the account contact has authorised the port, if the CAF has not been signed by the a/c contact the port request is rejected.
b) To confirm that the donor operator is willing to release the numbers - this is usually to check if there are any bills outstanding on that customer's account and if there are the port request is rejected until the a/c is paid.

jimmycrackcorm

Nuymber portability is a comreg requirement otherwise Voda and O2 would not be happy letting customers go to cheaper tarrifs on Meteor and three.

But until the number is transferred it actually belongs to the network.