Playing Par 5 holes

Trampas

Just something that I find interesting is how people play Par 5's when they know they cant get up in 2.

Why do people always feel the need to take driver and then 3 wood to try and get up in 2 but 90%+ of the time they will end up short if not slice, hook, end up in rough, bunker or knock one down and struggle to get par. Where if they played a 3 wood off the tee and around a 4 iron or so they will leave them a short iron into the green and might get up and down to make birdie but I say they will walk off with a par most of the time.

I have been trying it lately with great successes and would advise people should try it also.

Might knock a shot or two of your round.

What do other people feel?

uberwolf

it ties in perfectly with the advice I was getting on playing to my handicap in another thread.

WHIP IT!

It's definitely a good piece of advice for an 18+ handicapper who is essentially looking to play 'bogey golf'... Ditto with long par-fours that they are unlikely to hit in two anyway...

Myself, as I play off 14 and therefore often end up playing Par Fives (which can often have high indexes) with no shot to fall back on, would tend to try and attack the hole a bit more...

It all depends on the hole itself anyway and how proficient you are with your driver and fairway woods... Some holes just don't suit a driver regardless of your handicap or skill-level.

copacetic

It depends on the par 5 imo.

I don't think you can make a blanket '3 wood and then lay up' statement. On some par 5s this would bring a bunker into play off the tee or leave you with a long lay up into a narrow fairway area.

I'd generally hit driver on a par 5, usually even if things go wrong this leaves you with the layup option. If I know for sure I can't make the green in 2, for instance if it is a long par 5 with water right in front of the green, then I'll hit an iron off the tee and an iron for a layup.

If the green isn't well protected I'll nearly always have a go at it, leaving myself on the right side for a chip and run up it if I don't reach. I love par 5s and will very seldom not go for them in 2, good driver allowing.

Even with water in front, if you hit it in 2 you still have a chance of a par. Risk/reward and all that!

Swinging Looney

For me, and as a 19 handicapper, a Par 5 is almost the easiest hole to play. Although, as a 19 handicapper, may target is still par and not birdie!

Rule 1: I will only hit the club that I feel most comfortable with off that particular tee. If O.B. or trees or water may be an issue, then I might use a 3 iron to ensure accuracy even if it will sacrifice some distance.

Rule 2: I will almost never attempt to reach a par 5 in two. Using a long iron or wood for a second shot is very risky and even if I did hit it well enough to cover the distance, I will almost certainly be off target. Normally that will leave me with a difficult bunker shot or horrible chip (Murphy's Law) that will have me duffing chip after chip or digging holes in the sand and ultimately making an 8.

Rule 3: Before I hit my second shot, I decide what club I want to use to attack the pin with my 3rd shot. Normally this will be a 9 iron or PW for me. That means I need to leave myself say 105 to 135 yards to the flag. But I may be constrained by a narrow fairway at that range or bunkers or whatever so I may need to lay up a little shorter or perhaps even a little longer to try to stay safe and give myself the best chance of using the short iron which I feel most comfortable with. I am quite happy with a SW or 8 iron either. If I am forced to use a longer iron I know I will begin to lose a lot of accuracy.

Rule 4: Decide what club to use for my second shot that will leave me with the perfect distance remaining for my 3rd shot. On really long par 5's (like the 14th in Hollywood Lakes!!!) then I may need a long iron or wood just to try to get into that 3rd shot slot, but invariably I only need a 6 to 8 iron second, which I am confident enough with to place with fair accuracy. Even if hit a poor second, I will be able to comfortably reach the green in 3.

Rule 5: For the 3rd shot be aggressive. If I have got the distance right and I am holding my favorite club I will aim right at the flag. I always prefer to hit a 3/4 shot if I can so as to be as accurate as possible and will normally go one club up from that which I could theoretically use to reach the pin. I will almost always end up on the putting surface with two putts for a par, and if I am swinging well the 3rd will be good and close and I will have a really good birdie opportunity.

Quite often I have used this strategy and left myself a 10 footer or less for birdie. My playing partner will have tried to reach the green in two, ended up in the rough with a bad lie, hit the best chip he could have managed and yet still be further from the hole for his birdie putt than me.

My biggest problem is that I can't putt to save my life just at the moment, so even 10 feet will likely mean a bogey or worse!! DOH!

Seriously, have a go at this strategy for a few rounds, and try your best to resist the urge to have a go for the green in two. You will be amazed at the results. I was. I now go into a round expecting to par every par 5 (except the 14th in Hollywood Lakes!) and normally do just that. Once my putting improves, I would expect at least a couple of birdies per round from the par 5's also. Tis just intelligent golf!

copacetic

its a good strategy Swinging but it all depends on you level of play. At worst I am normally chipping and putting for a birdie, the issue is really both the accuracy of your driving and long iron or woods approach shot. I'm a relatively long hitter and after a nice drive would usually have a very good chance of hitting the green in 2.

Even did it once in Hollywood lakes in the middle of the summer a couple of years ago, if you get a lowish drive away down that hill it can really run..

It's a question of playing to your strengths really, I'd be good off the tee and a good chip and putter so it is well worth the risk for me, have had plenty of tap in birdies on Par5s. If it goes wrong and I hit the rough off the tee I am usually far enough up to hack it out and still hit something on the green.

Swinging Looney

If you trust your ability to hit long, accurate irons or woods then you're lucky! As you indicated, it is about your level of skill. I would consider your strategy to be for the better, single digit handicappers. My strategy does one thing which I am particularly after. That is the ability to be continuously be hitting my favourite club from an ideal distance off short fairway grass. The try to get up in 2 strategy works well when you have a green that is surrounded by few hazards or shorter rough. Even bunkers are no big deal. I play quite well from bunkers and would expect to get up and down from the sand. But if you are playing somewhere like a links course or anywhere with deep rough, hazards or the possibility of dodgy lies then I would definitely lean towards going for three!

At my current level, I feel it makes vastly more sense to be hitting a predictable shot from a decent lie that should leave me with a really good birdie chance, rather than try for two, hoping that if I miss the green I will have a decent enough lie in the rough and angle to the flag to have enough control and green to place the ball accurately.

Just out of pure interest and not in any way as a challenge -

How many eagles would you have made from trying to get up in two?
How many birdies would you normally make?

If my putting was up to scratch, I should really have a really good chance of getting at least two birdies from 4 par 5's per round. If I was swinging well, that should go to 3 or possibly 4. Do you feel that trying to get up in two would greatly improve those statistics?

I envy you and your trust in your skill and hopefully I will be able to have a go at 'up in two' in the future, however based on the difference that I have made to my 18 hole scores since I started playing par 5's this way, I will be sticking to what I know for the moment!!!

Happy swinging!

copacetic

hmmm, I have to disagree about how often you will get up and down from 100 yards no matter how good your putting is. If you reckon you can do it 50% of the time then you should be getting 4 or 5 birdies a round, i.e up and down from the fairway on the shorter par 4s too. Which I think is being overly optimistic from 100 at our level of play (i'm off 13 or so though no official handicap at the moment)

Even if you can get each 100 yard shot to 10 feet, you will never make half of them, never mind 75% or 100%. I think the stat is 25% for mid handicaps. Even the pros don't average 50% from 10 feet, they only get 40%.

I won't give you the stats for the chances of you getting each 100 yard shot within 10 feet but they are much less than 25% I'd say? Lets just say that the chances of an up and down from 100 are very small for any of us handicap golfers (less than 10%)

However as you say it's all about what each players best chance is.

Generally I'd make very few eagles but would expect probably to be level par for the par 5s, birdie, par, par, bogey. It depends on the course though.

Swinging Looney

Fair point copacetic. I suppose I may well be a little too optimistic!! Your stats would seem to agree! At the stage I am at now, I would be delighted with just one birdie in four!!!

All the same, for my last round at Bellewstown, while I shot an 89, I was level par on the 4 par 5's. That's 5,5,5,5. Two were missed birdie putts, one from 4 feet and the other from maybe 10 or 12 feet. The other two were on the green in 3 but were too far from the flag to call them real birdie chances.

My 89 came from wayward tee shots, and the odd pulled second shot on a par 4 into trees or a ditch or whatever and of course the brutal putting. That particular round included 5 three putts. There is perhaps only two or three par 4's on that course that I could manage to be close enough to use a 9 or PW for my second and at that only if my tee shot went well. Some are blind second shots to an elevated green so it is particularly hard to get the distance right. However there is one (the 16th) which I will normally use a 3 or 4 iron off the tee and then have a 3/4 SW or PW second. I will almost always be on the green for 2 and normally will be decently close with a chance at birdie.

My big problem is when I need to use anything longer than a 6 iron to reach the green, and in particular if I am playing off an uneven lie (uphill, downhill, sidehill). I have little confidence in my ability with these clubs and they usually prove my worries to be valid!

But perhaps that is the whole point. I am very confident standing on a par 5 tee box that I can manage to par the hole comfortably, even if the tee shot or second shot goes a little arseways. Since the mental side of this game plays a huge role, maybe that is helping me on Par 5's and my underconfidence with the longer clubs is hindering me on all the other holes!

Interesting to see the different thoughts on the same problem though. Thanks for asking the question Trampas!

copacetic

confidence and having a plan are the main thing alright. deciding how to play the hole on the tee is key as you are doing.

For the longer clubs, my advice here is to really shorten your swing make sure to get your weight forward through the ball and aim for the 'smart' side of the green, or to the neck of the entry if open. Inconsistent long irons is often due to lengthening your swing to try and 'hit' the ball rather than just taking your normal sing. A few punchy long irons that leave you a nice chip and putt for a par or a long 2 putt which will get your confidence back. Failing that maybe try a punchy rescue club instead of a long iron, if you are confident in that?

Swinging Looney

Interesting that you mention rescue clubs. I have 3 and 4 irons in my bag and while I can hit them very well of the tee, I am basically useless of the turf. I am inclined to agree with the general opinion that high handicappers really shouldn't have them in their bag and should have hybrids or rescue clubs instead.

I must say that I certainly do tend to lengthen my swing for the longer irons. I will have to have a go at the shorter swing as you suggest. I am happy with the par 5's, but maybe you can help solve my problems on the 14 other holes!!!

stringy

h/cap 9, try hit most par 5s in two, had 3 eagles last month, driver 4 wood(twice), driver 18* rescue the other time. Even if I know I wont make it, usually I hope to get around the house and get up and down for birdie. If I have no chance at all (e.g playing into wind) usually hit 4/5 iron second shot and leave a wedge

I defo see the point if someone has no chance playing it in 2, makes senses to play comfortably on in 3

colm-ccfc84

Hit 3 wood, 6 iron to a par 5 yesterday and lipped out for eagle, gutted.

One Cold Hand

Interesting thread,

I suppose it all depends on how your round is going. If your a few shots better than your handicap, then it might make sense to play it safe and not do anything stupid. There's always a chance of getting up and down from 100yds or so.

For starters, I always hit driver, as I'm pretty comfortable with it and feel I have just as good a chance of hitting the fairway as with a 3 wood. Generally if the green is within reach I'll have a pop at it. I feel that even if my 2nd is pretty bad, it should be just a case of lobbing it on and taking 2 putts for par.
If it's definitely out of reach, I'll won't bother risking the wood, and will just poke a 5/6 iron down the fairway. Golf is all about course management!!

Matt Santos

The most important and logical comment on this thread is that it depends on your standard of golf! It is pretty hard for a 12+ handicapper to think of Par 5's in the same way that a single figure player does and as for a category 1 player the Par5's are a real chance to get one back against the course!
Personally, Par 5's for me are usually a no brainer. I must hit driver to try and get home in 2! I am confident with my driver that I will be putting myself in contention to get home in 2 and will be pretty close after hitting my second but it can go wrong. Basically a bogey for me on a Par 5 is catostrophic but it is the exception rather than the rule.
The gas thing that I find is there are some huge hitters out there that are playing off around the 12/15 mark who feel they must go for it in two no matter!! Even when it is pointed out that getting home in 2 is of no real advantage on a given green they must still pop one at it! I know of one particular hole that is well makeable in two but the green is set up in such a way that it is much more sensible to try and get a wedge close with your third as opposed to holding it from 200 yds out!! Course management and all that..

Golf Ninja

How to play the Par 5 correctly it really depends on the par 5 but the one thing they all have in common is that they all play easier from the fairway.

I play off 6 and i think the secret is to just hit the ball easy up the fairway you have a much better chance of hitting the fairway but more importantly if you are faced with say 240 yards to the green and you hit it 230 and end up 10 yards short left in a fluffy lie you have no chance of getting stop on the ball. So if the flag is up the front your finished.
Play the percentage if you are 250yards from the green hit the 3 wood easy and you have a better chance not only to hit the ball out of the middle of the club but you should end up 30 yards short on the fairway where you can create some stop on the ball instead of coming out of the rough with no chance.

Same thing off the tee the day you hit the ball easy the fairways seem huge in width but if you hit the ball to hard the seems to land on the fairway and then jump left or right into a bunker.

My advise try hitting 5 white balls down the fairway as hard as normal and then hit 5 yellow balls as easy as possible and i gaurantee the results will surprise you.

PhilipMarlowe

Golf Ninja wrote:

...Play the percentage if you are 250yards from the green hit the 3 wood easy and you have a better chance not only to hit the ball out of the middle of the club but you should end up 30 yards short on the fairway where you can create some stop on the ball instead of coming out of the rough with no chance...

I would disagree with this as a lay-up strategy, especially calling it 'the percentage'.
For most golfers 250 yard from the front, why take on a 220 yard lay-up with a 3 wood? The chances are that a less that perfect shot will wind it's way up in trouble pretty quickly with that length of shot and for very little 'up-side' even if it's hit right. If you try to hit say 170 yards instead, this is a relatively straight forward shot for most golfers from the fairway and with a (probably) wider target of fairway to aim for... leaving you 80 yards to the front, your favoutite gap wedge (or whatever) in your hand and, in the overwhelming majority of the time, you will have a 35ft birdie chance at worst (of course depends on your handicap/standard).

If you are going for it in two then that's a different scenario but am just commenting on guys laying up based on what I often see...

Mister Sifter

Licksy wrote:

I would disagree with this as a lay-up strategy, especially calling it 'the percentage'.
For most golfers 250 yard from the front, why take on a 220 yard lay-up with a 3 wood? The chances are that a less that perfect shot will wind it's way up in trouble pretty quickly with that length of shot and for very little 'up-side' even if it's hit right. If you try to hit say 170 yards instead, this is a relatively straight forward shot for most golfers from the fairway and with a (probably) wider target of fairway to aim for... leaving you 80 yards to the front, your favoutite gap wedge (or whatever) in your hand and, in the overwhelming majority of the time, you will have a 35ft birdie chance at worst (of course depends on your handicap/standard).

If you are going for it in two then that's a different scenario but am just commenting on guys laying up based on what I often see...

i agree, if your 250 from the green and thinking of laying up, then i'd take a 7 iron or so and make sure of hitting the fairway and leaving myself in a good position to hit the next one.

WHIP IT!

Graeme1982 wrote:

i agree, if your 250 from the green and thinking of laying up, then i'd take a 7 iron or so and make sure of hitting the fairway and leaving myself in a good position to hit the next one.

Yep, same as that... I would be relatively long off the tee (I think ) and so, if I've hit a good drive and am not going for the green in two, then a 7Iron will rarely leave me anymore than a SW-PW shot... You'd do well enough around Par5s if you were consistently leaving yourself a wedge approach in three...

When you're thinking 'lay-up', a 3Wood is the last club you would have in your hand imho...

stockdam

First things first - hit the fairway. If you can't hit woods then hit your 5 iron if necessary.

If you are a better golfer then it's all about percentages. If you get a good drive away and a good fairway wood or long iron close to the green then you are set up for a good chip and maybe a single putt. The closer you can get to the green in two the better but make sure you hit the fairway as handicap golfers are usually poor from the rough.

dak

A lot of pros will advise you to play smart on par 5's . We all have the vision of the birdie putt on a par five . Big drive ,fantasic 2nd shot near the green , nice chip and a single putt!! Watching too much Ryder cup!

Better to Drive well and straight , play 2 iron shots (3 or 4 irons) and make sure you get on the green and have your 2 putts for a par! For an 18 handicaper thats 3 stableford points ( not to be sneezed at)

Mister Sifter

Playing a par 5 depends very much on the hole. I don't think there's a set way you should play them.

I played a par 5 at Hollywood Lakes yesterday and only had a wedge for my second shot! I missed the 10 foot eagle putt unfortunately, but got the birdie.