Objecting to the serial objectors

fricatus

Is there any provision out there to "object to an objection" that has been made to An Bord Pleanála?

There is one individual in the area where I live, who objects to any and all commercial development that is proposed. He has been (rightly) pilloried in the local press, but maintains that it's his "democratic right" to make these objections.

It's got to the point where commercial investment in the area is really suffering. Even if this guy doesn't object, the fear of having a land parcel idle for 18 months while he exhausts all his avenues, is deterring urban renewal projects from even being considered. Not only that, he's being used as a convenient excuse by holders of derelict sites who are happy to sit on those sites and not develop them.

He may call it a "democratic right", but to me, it's the most anti-democratic thing imaginable. This is one man, imposing his will on the community, and ignoring the criticism coming from all quarters. He works in the public sector, so there's no downside as far as he's concerned. He claims that he is helping an overworked planning department by formulating these objections. The arrogance leaves me speechless.

What galls me is that I could get 100 people in the morning to write to An Bord Pleanála, but this guy's view would get more consideration than the 100 objecting to him. Democracy is all about majority rule, while considering the minority view. However the "tail" of the minority view appears to be wagging the majority "dog" here.

What can be done to accommodate and listen to such a dissenting voice, while at the same time not allowing him to to strangle all commercial development in the process?

Húrin

I'm not sure, maybe petition the local council on individual matters? I imagine that there is little chance on getting rid of his right to object, no matter how frivilously he uses it.

I am not an expert in the law. Perhaps you will find more success in the Legal forum: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=633

or just call up Waterford CoCo

Jackie laughlin

What you describe is a real political conundrum. Local objections to change are no longer exceptional. Where I live, the residents' associations object to everything. Yes, EVERYTHING! Dangerous dereliction is preferred to any development. Some politicians feed on this: "my job is to represent the views of the people"!! However, this mass of frivolous objection undermines real objections to really bad decisions and the chancers backing those really bad decisions can point to the frivolous mass as an argument for limiting the right to object.

Gobán Saor

It's called BANANA syndrome - Build Absolutely Nothing Anywhere Near Anything

Victor

Objections only stand if they are valid.

If all the developers get together and make their applications at the same time, he will be overwhelmed.

It's got to the point where commercial investment in the area is really suffering. Even if this guy doesn't object, the fear of having a land parcel idle for 18 months while he exhausts all his avenues, is deterring urban renewal projects from even being considered. Not only that, he's being used as a convenient excuse by holders of derelict sites who are happy to sit on those sites and not develop them.

This is bull and I humbly submit that you should know it is. If they apply now, the most they should be waiting is 9 months. If they wait, they have that waiting period plus the 9 months. To quote that famous philosopher 'Doh!'.

Heinrich

Is not the right to object a constitutional one? Maybe objectors should be thrown in jail. Hurrah for democracy.

is_that_so

Anthony Coughlan , that well-known objector to everything was warned off by the High Court and described as a a nuisance objector. Democracy is not holding everyone to ransom. A common approach by all might be the best approach, and that includes the local councils. This type of situation is not uncommon. Donegal Town I believe has a problem , as have other towns around the country, although mostly because of local vested interests.

lostexpectation

I reckon we should lynch all local historians, infact lets lynch everyone over 60 toothey only get in the way of Progress

you have to clarify objections and submissions

Colonel Sanders

Similar thing used to happen in Wexford. Won't mention the persons name but anyone from there will know who he is. Used to object to everything usully with very little reason. And the fact that some of his objections were upheld was even more shocking.

Same person had a news agenst and NO ONE in the town went in there. Closed a while back and as far as I know ther person left the town.

Victor

Colonel Sanders wrote:

And the fact that some of his objections were upheld was even more shocking.

If some of his objections were upheld, they were valid objections. Like putting the nuclear power plant next to the primary school type stuff.

Spyral

There is one individual in the area where I live, who objects to any and all commercial development that is proposed. He has been (rightly) pilloried in the local press, but maintains that it's his "democratic right" to make these objections.

it is his right but such objections must be based in something surely ?

BBM77

Personally, I think a limit needs to be put on the number of appeals a person can make to An Bord Pleanala. Most genuine people would only have to make an appeal once in their life; if a limit of five appeals per person were imposed, it would restrict these serial objectors. You shouldn’t have the power to appeal all in sundry to achieve some narrow minded vision as is the case in Waterford. Especially when this vision is rubbish.

Also, 9 months is too long to wait for a decision, which in itself is an optimistic time frame. If a decision were given in 4 weeks, it would also restrict serial objectors because delaying developments in red tape is one of the main motivations of these serial objectors. A shorter decision time would make An Bord Pleanala a less useful tool for serial objectors.

lostexpectation

isn't there a standard time allowed for submissions and review of the submissions, so things only get delayed if somebody start a court action which rarely happens...

Steerpike

Could it, but could it, be due to a deep-rooted conservatism in the Irish psyche? Even around my way, there was a plan to widen a short section of road slightly to allow a much-need filter lane. Result? Busybodies Association objection. It's my belief (and possibly a contentious one) that a lot of these people have too much time on their hands.

purple'n'gold

Colonel Sanders wrote:

Similar thing used to happen in Wexford. Won't mention the persons name but anyone from there will know who he is. Used to object to everything usully with very little reason. And the fact that some of his objections were upheld was even more shocking.

Same person had a news agenst and NO ONE in the town went in there. Closed a while back and as far as I know ther person left the town.

Everything you say is absolutely correct, but you forgot to say that his windows were broken on a number of occasions. Any way the lunatic you refer to is now living in Kildare (I wont mention where).

marcsignal

fricatus wrote:

There is one individual in the area where I live, who objects to any and all commercial development that is proposed. He has been (rightly) pilloried in the local press, but maintains that it's his "democratic right" to make these objections.

Are you based in waterford Fricatus ? This guy sounds like a nightmare alright, I worked with a lawsearcher in Dun Leary Town Hall Planning Department, and there anyone can come to the council public office and look at the 'Zoning Maps' of Dublin, so I guess it's the same in Waterford.
The maps are all colour coded stating whether an area of the city is zoned Residential, Major Mown Centre, Industrial, Conservation Area, Green Belt Area, High Amenity Area etc etc..
If the area you are talking about is Zoned as Residential, there is probably no chance anyone would get permission to construct a building for business/commercial purposes, even if the guy in question never objected.
If you can establish what catogory the street or district falls under, then I think the best approach is to petition your local TD.

Because of all the planning shinnanigans in the country in the past, your objection to the objection, or appeal or whatever will be looked into and considered. Effectively they can't ignore you because it may be more trouble than it's worth for them to do so.
And to be honest it would be much more fun to be better organised than this plonker by beating him at his own game

If you really wanted to stir the sh*t you could run a quick check on his own address and if you find that HE has ever built a dodgy extension or something in the past, that he never got permission for ? then report him to the 'Enforcements Section' of your local planning office in Waterford, and they could very likely make him pull it down, AND you can probably check, in confidence, from the comfort of your own dodgy extension if you wish by going here..

http://193.178.1.178/Waterford_CoCo_gplan/

Now THAT would be a gas !!! :cool:

Have Fun