Wait till I tell ya about the one that got away..

Macspower

Stacks me 340 him 390 1/2 nlh

Villan is a decent player that I have respect for and I've played with him on 2/4 as well and he's 24/15/2.5 over 1500 hands or so....

Here's tonights history....

I sit in and there is a total fish at the table from my buddy list and he is donating as usual.... good player arrives shortly after me and in his first hand at the table it's folded around to my BB and I have 5/6s and make it 7 he 3 bets to 27 I make it 70 and he folds....... he says at another table... sorry didn't see you there mac, forgot you weren't normal i-poker donk.... i lol..

we proceed to gut the fish and now are both reasonably stacked and he has position on me but we havn't clashed.... he's been politely giving up his blinds for the last half hour or so to my button raises since the fish has left..

I get KK in my BB and he raises UTG to 8.... 1 caller I make it 28 and he flat calls... other guy folds....

Flop Ks3s3h

I lead weak for 25 to try and induce a raise and he obliges and makes it 65...

Now what do I do??

a) call and check the turn to him? (I'm afraid he'll check behind)

b) Call and lead the turn?

c) Raise? There is a still a lot of money to get in and a raise would make it easier to get stacks in on turn ......hope he calls with AK or AA (I'm afraid he might fold AK)... If I raise how much?

4) Fold (one for the uber nits who put him on 33)

DEmeant0r

Fold

But seriously, don't do (a), I think he would be experienced enough to know that is the standard stack-a-donk line. If he has anything at all, he's going to call a raise. If he was trying to steal the pot, you probably won't be getting anymore money from him this hand.

So basically, if you think he has hit that flop or has AA, raise. But any decent sized raise would basically be very close to your stack size, so if you do raise you won't have much to bet on the turn.

If you think he was trying to steal the pot, call and check the turn to him and pray he fires out again.

This post is kinda a little messy, i'll clean it up later.

Macspower

just checked the hand history and have edited original post.. his 3 bet was to 70 on the flop and we are slightly deeper with me with 340 and him on 390 before the hand

DEmeant0r

Oh in that case, if you think he has hit the flop, make it 170-180, leaving about 130 to bet on the turn. Other option is to call, and fire out 100 on the turn and 140 on the river, that's if it gets to the river.

Theresalwaysone

I call. I call because if he was just making a play, he aint gonna bet more unless you show weakness. I call his raise and donk the turn.

NeoSlicerZ

Hmm, kinda awkward if you raise a decent amount, which leaves you with half a PSB on the turn. Call, ship turn.

coillcam

My usual reaction is ahhh ggrrrrr FFS why can't I fúckin make the house on the turn or river, tight git never pays off, the wanker or something to that effect.

I usually have 1 of 2 lines based on personal perception and/or table dynamics, either bet flop,check turn, value bet river or check flop, hammer turn and river as I said player and table dependant.

As played I would check call flop, check call turn unless a spade hits then I am check/raising, any river lead for 1/2 pot

I hope the Bástard slowplayed Aces. I am never raising the flop.

cardshark202

Dont like the weak lead at all when deep. Cbet your normal amount. As played I would call and prob check the turn to him too, make him think its a stubborn QQ or something.

opr

I reraise. I don't think a good player will bet the turn here when checked too after we call the flop. The rest of his range that folds i don't think we are getting anymore money from anyway but we do lose value from the range that may be happy to call like AK,AA or some draw he pushes over with.

Opr

Primewise

I agree with cardshark, lead strong on flop


A weak lead extracts only extracts a little (at most maybe a bluffraise on the flop) from someone without a hand

A strong lead allows you to fully stack him is he has a hand he can continue with, hopefully AA or AQspades



As played I would reraise flop. AA will call, and Ax spades will call if you give him a good price

Ste05

I don't think you're getting much more out of him, I think you should have lead your normal amount, I think if you call and check the turn he will check behind a huge amount and you might get one bet out of him on the River.

Because of that I think a re-raise here can look weaker if the history will make him not believe you, (could you have a flush draw?) so I just raise again and hope he wants to party with AK, AA or Axh.

Mr.Plough

flat calling and donking the turn shows incredible strength so i rule it out.

as ste said above as you have a history together i probably reraise here and hope he shoves.

Moneymaker

Re-raise. You're not going to do that with a full house, are you? If he has a hand, hopefully he'll push back, and if he's stealing, then you wont be getting any more money anyway.

ianmc38

Call/check turn or minraise

Ste05

I was going to suggest a min-raise, it's so cheeky it might just work... He might spite call/raise you

rag2gar

My guess is that you did raise to 175 or something and he folded and now you're wondering if you overplayed your hand. I think he was bluffing on flop after weak lead (as hoped for) and once you continue with the hand he's done...

semibluff

check turn and river. he must bet river considering info?? he'l be trying to get you off 99 etc

perhaps the wrong play, but interesting and def a good way to induce a pot size bet out of him (if he's got an average pair, he'l want to take you off a higher pair, if he has ak or aa he'l think he's ahead and bluff, if he's nothing he'l prob bluff aswell) just a diff angle for it!?!?

semibluff

duplicate

edit:this only answers what to do next, i recommend a stronger lead on flop also

jbravado

You should certainly raise here imo given the info.

RoundTower

If you are taking this line you aren't really trying to stack him, so you are just looking for the best way to get one or more big bets. I think I would check the turn and lead the river big if he checks behind.

What hands would you ever 3 bet preflop and weak lead/3 bet this flop with? I can't see you doing this with AA or AK. Is AsQs a possibility? Do you ever turn up with weaker suited aces, after you 3 bet a solid UTG raiser from the blinds? Do you ever have a hand with a 3 in it, even 33?

Macspower

A little extra history on this.... looking at our history there was a hand about 2 weeks ago which I'm sure he will remember. We were both deep when I raised from my button and the SB called with a half stack and he 3 bet from the BB and I 4 bet and the SB went all in and he folded and I was oblidged to call the SB with 89s.......

My thinking on this hand is as follows....

I would normally lead extra strong in this situation but villan is definately capable of bluffing and I wanted to give him the opportunity hence the weak lead...

A flat call and lead of the turn is a real advert for my hand and if reversed I would prob need the nuts to call this ont he turn..

A flat call now and check the turn will give him the oportunity to check behind which I think he will do with AK or AA...

So raising seems to be the option alhough it kinda contradicts my original plan to allow him to bluff at it...

Ste05

Macspower wrote:

So raising seems to be the option alhough it kinda contradicts my original plan to allow him to bluff at it...

It's just one of those awkward hands where we are too strong to get paid. It's annoying but there's nothing you can do but just hope he decides to get jiggy, usually he won't.

valor

i would 3 bet here, i dont think he will fold AK/AA and he might bluff. make it small though, like $160 or something.

if you do think he will fold AK or AA though, and you only think you can get one more street of value from him, just call, check turn and then vbet the river.

Macspower

Anyway I decided raise was my best option and I raised to 150 and he folded....

thanks for the advice again guys....

valor

you played it well, although I dont like the small lead, thats never a bluff like

ianmc38

yeah weak lead sucks. weak lead will only ever get one raise out of someone unless they're a retard as weak lead/call raise is always a big hand and never a bluff.

fuzzbox

betting 25 into 57 is perfectly fine here, I dont know what ppl are talking about. (well ok, maybe 30 would be better, but its not terrible by any means)

3-betting when he raises is terrible ... once again I dont know what ppl are talking about.

This is a clear call and then you can choose between lead and chk on the turn.

connie147

Having got to where you are, I think reraising scares the bejasus out of him. I definately call and check the turn. If he checks behind,I lead for about €120 on the river.You could get a call out of him.

Macspower

Hence the post guys... I knew I scared the life out of him..... If the situation was reversed I'd prob fold AA/AK here as well... really felt like I let him off the hook...

But maybe he had air and thats all I was getting anyway..... think I should have flat called and see what happened after... but hindsight is a great thing..

Thanks again for the input guys

cardshark202

fuzzbox wrote:

betting 25 into 57 is perfectly fine here, I dont know what ppl are talking about. (well ok, maybe 30 would be better, but its not terrible by any means)

3-betting when he raises is terrible ... once again I dont know what ppl are talking about.

This is a clear call and then you can choose between lead and chk on the turn.

Betting 25 into 57 would be ok if you do that occasionally, but if you never do it, its terrible.