Trips on board

Van Dice

Hand 1: 3/6, Villain is very bad, 59/17/1.8
No specific reads, comments on line?

Stack sizes:
UTG: $550.80
Van Dice: $597
CO: $126
Button: $292.40
SB: $347.40
BB: $1725.95


Pre-flop: (6 players) Van Dice is UTG+1 with Qs Kd
UTG folds, Van Dice raises to $21, 2 folds, SB calls, BB folds.


Flop: Jh 9s 9h ($48, 2 players)
SB checks, Van Dice checks.


Turn: Qc ($48, 2 players)
SB bets $36, Van Dice raises to $99, SB calls.


River: 9c ($246, 2 players)
SB is all-in $227.4, Van Dice calls.


Hand 2: 2/4, villain is 31/11/1.9, again no specific reads, I don't have many hands with either him or player in Hand 1 (c100 in both cases). Line comments again?

Stack sizes:
UTG: $425.70
UTG+1: $110
Van Dice: $682.30
Button: $939
SB: $510.90
BB: $878.20


Pre-flop: (6 players) Van Dice is CO with Kc Jh
2 folds, Van Dice raises to $14, Button folds, SB calls, BB folds.


Flop: Jd 8c 8d ($32, 2 players)
SB checks, Van Dice checks.


Turn: 8s ($32, 2 players)
SB checks, Van Dice checks.


River: 6s ($32, 2 players)
SB bets $32, Van Dice raises to $72, SB raises to $208...?

Hectorjelly

Hand 1 just call the turn. Theres no need to build a massive pot here, unless the guy is so retarded he isnt folding any pair. Id call the river but I really hate how you got there.

Hand 2 never reopen the betting like that in such a marginal value situation unless you are sure what you are going to do to a raise. Id fold.

I can explain both further but they seem pretty self evident

mdwexford

Hand 1 - I dont like raising the turn here, you are either way behind or way ahead and by raising if you are ahead you're not giving him the chance to bluff again on the river and if you are behind you are inflating the pot. As played i call the river.

Hand 2 - I definitely bet the turn, you will get action off pretty much any pocket pair here. As played again i think i call the river.

cardshark202

Hand 1 I agree with HJ.
Hand 2 Why aren't you bet bet betting all previous streets?

coillcam

Hand 1: You are up against pure muppet, here I like to practice pot control on the turnn. He's folding all hands which you might get value from on the river and calling with hands you are already beaten by straights, 9X etc.

Hand 2: As cardshark said, whats up with the lack of flop and turn betting? I presume your feigning weakness to benefit the rest of your session, no? I call looks like a chop as usual:rolleyes: you probably had his kicker crushed.

opr

Pretty much whats been said. I don't raise the turn in hand 1. I guess we got to call given your desciption of this guy

Weird line in hand 2. Personally i don't raise the river but i do understand why you did. Does he raise again on the river with a J ? I think i find a fold here cause i can't see him doing that but its hard given how weak and flop and turn has been played.

Opr

OutOfPosition

Hand 1, dont raise the turn, now call the river and get shown a cleverly played pair of Kings

Hand 2, what hectorjelly said

Van Dice

interesting stuff. k my thoughts on responses...

Hectorjelly wrote:

Hand 1 just call the turn. Theres no need to build a massive pot here, unless the guy is so retarded he isnt folding any pair. Id call the river but I really hate how you got there.

Why all the hate for turn raise?! The guy is retarded, 59/17/1.8. I think I get called on the turn by any Q, any J, any T, any flush draw, and probably by any K or 8 for a gutshot, I think I have a lot of equity against his calling range, and am very unlikely to get bluffed.

mdwexford wrote:

Hand 1 - I dont like raising the turn here, you are either way behind or way ahead and by raising if you are ahead you're not giving him the chance to bluff again on the river and if you are behind you are inflating the pot.

Def not a WA/WB situation, and he's not a bluffer.

coillcam wrote:

Hand 1: You are up against pure muppet, here I like to practice pot control on the turnn. He's folding all hands which you might get value from on the river and calling with hands you are already beaten by straights, 9X etc.

Fair point, question is am I more likely to get value from a turn raise or a river bet, or is my hand too weak to do anything other than just call down/check behind, even against someone as bad/loose as he is? Key question in hand imo.

OutOfPosition wrote:

now call the river and get shown a cleverly played pair of Kings

lol people like this guy don't play anything cleverly.


HAND 2:

Hectorjelly wrote:

Hand 2 never reopen the betting like that in such a marginal value situation unless you are sure what you are going to do to a raise. Id fold.

All good points. Just felt my hand was so underrepped that I def get calls from weaker hands with a river raise, but yeah I agree now that it's probably just a call.

cardshark202 wrote:

Hand 2 Why aren't you bet bet betting all previous streets?

Cos I am extremely susceptible to FPS, and often feel it's necessary to play hands in a non-straightforward way, even if it cuts EV! Def should've bet the turn, flop is fine though imo

coillcam wrote:

Hand 2: As cardshark said, whats up with the lack of flop and turn betting? I presume your feigning weakness to benefit the rest of your session, no? I call looks like a chop as usual:rolleyes: you probably had his kicker crushed.

Need to mix up c-betting frequencies with and without hands, seemed like a good small pot flop to check behind.

opr wrote:

Weird line in hand 2. Personally i don't raise the river but i do understand why you did. Does he raise again on the river with a J ? I think i find a fold here cause i can't see him doing that but its hard given how weak and flop and turn has been played.
Opr

That summarizes hand exactly, both where I misplayed it, and why. Also I'm certain the river is a fold when it gets back to me, I somehow convinced myself that if he had quads, he would go for a much bigger reraise or even shove.
A8 fwiw, and it was A9 in hand 1. Both great hands to defend a blind with!!
Ta for replies

mrflash

The fact he's retarded does not mean he will not be dealt a hand now and again. Agree with all the others. you are building pots without really big hands. very dangerous, i learned this the hard way myself, i was a pot pot pot guy with top pair top kicker until it finally went bad on me. stats are not the be all and end all, they help you make important decisions, but no matter how bad the stats, it does not mean he cannot possibly have a hand that beats yours.

Van Dice

mrflash wrote:

The fact he's retarded does not mean he will not be dealt a hand now and again.

Yeah I grasped this!!

mrflash wrote:

Agree with all the others. you are building pots without really big hands. very dangerous

Disagree, thin value betting is one of the key concepts in unlimited hold em

mrflash wrote:

no matter how bad the stats, it does not mean he cannot possibly have a hand that beats yours.

This is completely missing the point, the question is whether his calling range of my turn raise is wide enough to make the raise profitable. Obviously there will be hands in his range I'm behind, but there will also be hands that I'm ahead of. Then we need to see whether we do better by just calling his turn bet, and what river line to take.
My line was to raise turn and probably to check behind on river, but I'm not certain it's the best line, hence the post. If it's not the best line, the reason is definitely not that he might have a better hand.