Lying to a direct question

Hyzepher

i am just back from Vegas and 1 incident stands out. I was playing a 2-5 NL game in the Venetian when this happened.

I am holding KQ and called a raise pre-flop. The board comes down TJ2 rainbow and I call a continuation bet - just the two of us in the pot. The turn is a blank and I lead out to try and make the bet as small as possible - he flat calls. The river is a 9 giving me the nuts and I bet out again. he pauses for a while and then asks me if I made the straight. I look at the board as if the straight was something I hadn't noticed and then look at him squarely and say 'No'. He then raises all in and I insta call with the straight.

Needless to say he was cursing as he hurried to reload. He then goes on to say that I was unsporting and bad for the game and then declares war on my chips. He then switches to an empty seat so he is to my left.

I quickly informed him that although I openly lied, he was actually trying to take advantage of me as well - re-raising when he thought his 2 pair was good.

Comments?

ollyk1

Hyzepher wrote:

Comments?

Don't tap the tank.

El Stuntman

Hyzepher wrote:

i am just back from Vegas and 1 incident stands out. I was playing a 2-5 NL game in the Venetian when this happened.

I am holding KQ and called a raise pre-flop. The board comes down TJ2 rainbow and I call a continuation bet - just the two of us in the pot. The turn is a blank and I lead out to try and make the bet as small as possible - he flat calls. The river is a 9 giving me the nuts and I bet out again. he pauses for a while and then asks me if I made the straight. I look at the board as if the straight was something I hadn't noticed and then look at him squarely and say 'No'. He then raises all in and I insta call with the straight.

Needless to say he was cursing as he hurried to reload. He then goes on to say that I was unsporting and bad for the game and then declares war on my chips. He then switches to an empty seat so he is to my left.

I quickly informed him that although I openly lied, he was actually trying to take advantage of me as well - re-raising when he thought his 2 pair was good.

Comments?

you are a disgrace to humanity

and a good poker player...lol, I hope there's a Chapter 2 to this one where the guy ends up with his car keys/house keys etc in the pot?

LuckyLloyd

This post has been deleted.

The Tourist

I heard a good quote about this, by some Irish player, which I'll try to get right...It's bad form to lie about your hand, unless asked a direct question. Then it's bad form not too.

Hyzepher

I know I did nothing wrong but I actually did feel a bit 'odd' for a couple of minutes. The guy was Russian and did look a bit scary! Although I didn't have the honour of taking all his NEW chips, I did leave the table with 8x my buyoin!!

bottom feeder

ollyk1 wrote:

Don't tap the tank.

5starpool

Laugh and move on. Good enough for him. Serves him right for raising with that crap.

Flipper

why did you just call with the nuts? Perfect spot for an angle-shoot Phil Laak style - stick in a stack of $100's the same size as the stack of $25's that would be required to call!

RoundTower

The Tourist wrote:

I heard a good quote about this, by some Irish player, which I'll try to get right...It's bad form to lie about your hand, unless asked a direct question. Then it's bad form not too.

when people say this they usually mean after you've mucked the hand.

Imposter

Flipper wrote:

why did you just call with the nuts? Perfect spot for an angle-shoot Phil Laak style - stick in a stack of $100's the same size as the stack of $25's that would be required to call!

I think you'll find when someone is all-in raising doesn't acheive much

CaptainNemo

If there was a rule or convention that you have to tell the truth when asked directly about your hand then poker would be a pointless game wouldn't it?

bops

Hyzepher wrote:

i am just back from Vegas and 1 incident stands out. I was playing a 2-5 NL game in the Venetian when this happened.

I am holding KQ and called a raise pre-flop. The board comes down TJ2 rainbow and I call a continuation bet - just the two of us in the pot. The turn is a blank and I lead out to try and make the bet as small as possible - he flat calls. The river is a 9 giving me the nuts and I bet out again. he pauses for a while and then asks me if I made the straight. I look at the board as if the straight was something I hadn't noticed and then look at him squarely and say 'No'. He then raises all in and I insta call with the straight.

Needless to say he was cursing as he hurried to reload. He then goes on to say that I was unsporting and bad for the game and then declares war on my chips. He then switches to an empty seat so he is to my left.

I quickly informed him that although I openly lied, he was actually trying to take advantage of me as well - re-raising when he thought his 2 pair was good.

Comments?

he, on the other hand, is obv good for the game

...if you had answered "yes", he probably would have pushed quicker!

...as for me, i never lie at the poker table, i always have the nuts!!

kryogen

you did nothing wrong IMO... sure u may feel a little bit guilty maybe, but then again if you dont like to con people into giving you money then dont play poker! you are there to lie to them in every hand you play. one way or the other, if it was an honest game it wouldnt work! you bluff, you lie, you give mis information. its the nature of the game.

he shouldnt ask you anyway, i mean is he really expecting the truth??? i agree with bops actually normally people shove alot faster if you say you do have it cuz they dont believe you!!

DeVore

I think its disgraceful. You should have told the truth and turned over your cards to prove it. You obviously think this game is a game of deceit and informational subterfuge.

DeV.
ps: the americans habit of repeatedly asking you what you have and then starting to list possible hands is about the most irritating thing about Vegas.

Moro Man

Hyzepher wrote:

i am just back from Vegas and 1 incident stands out. I was playing a 2-5 NL game in the Venetian when this happened.

I am holding KQ and called a raise pre-flop. The board comes down TJ2 rainbow and I call a continuation bet - just the two of us in the pot. The turn is a blank and I lead out to try and make the bet as small as possible - he flat calls. The river is a 9 giving me the nuts and I bet out again. he pauses for a while and then asks me if I made the straight. I look at the board as if the straight was something I hadn't noticed and then look at him squarely and say 'No'. He then raises all in and I insta call with the straight.

Needless to say he was cursing as he hurried to reload. He then goes on to say that I was unsporting and bad for the game and then declares war on my chips. He then switches to an empty seat so he is to my left.

I quickly informed him that although I openly lied, he was actually trying to take advantage of me as well - re-raising when he thought his 2 pair was good.

Comments?

Unsolicited lying is deemed unethical.

In all situations where you are asked a question it is perfectly ok to answer any way you seem fit and especially in vegas where there will always be one guy at the table who will asking "You hit you're flush buddy??...."

Wombatman

Hyzepher wrote:

I look at the board as if the straight was something I hadn't noticed

Would like to have seen this bit of Hollywood!

mrflash

Flipper wrote:

why did you just call with the nuts? Perfect spot for an angle-shoot Phil Laak style - stick in a stack of $100's the same size as the stack of $25's that would be required to call!

done something like that one night, put a 10k chip in the middle of the 1000's

RoundTower

how has no one yet brought up the "rule" that you can say anything you want about your hand, so long as you don't tell the truth. Mrflash I'm sure it's in your rulebook.

Captain Tom

mrflash wrote:

done something like that one night, put a 10k chip in the middle of the 1000's

um, are you aware of how unethical this is?

Fatboydim

The only lie I dislike at a table is what happened to Mrs Dim at The Cue Club. Last four players left. And short stack goes all in. I think Mrs Dim was BB and CL was SB. CL calls and Mrs Dim calls as it's only a little more to her and the pot odds are correct. CL makes a comment about checking it. Now I can't say for sure what CL said or what his intentions were but she took him to mean that he would check all the way down. She said nothing. So first off bad form to actually mention checking in the first place. - [It's understood obviously that most players will check down a pot to get shortstack out.] But Mrs Dim flops two pair and dutifully checks it. Turn comes and CL makes a bet. So Mrs Dim pushes all in and then he calls her with a straight draw and hits on the river taking her and shortstack out. Others witnessed this at first hand - but there is no doubt that had she bet the flop she would have remained in the game as her raises were being respected...

Of course his intention may have been simply to check the flop in the dark... But still.

And the quote above sounds like a Parkinsonism.

Macspower

At a poker table believe nothing of what you hear and about half of what you see and you won't go wrong

Rb

Lol @ the guy expecting you to tell the truth.

DeVore

You arent allowed to specifically name your hand though in this case he could have the lower straight (unlikely but hey!).

In Vegas they have a rule that you only have to call what you can be reasonably expected to count an opponents stack. Sounds mad and exploitable but it works quite well to stop people from hiding chips in bigger stacks and hiding stacks of big chips behind others.

It happened when one angle shooter declared all in, his opponent took one look at his puny stack and called, only for yer man to open his fist and display a half stack of big chips. The dealer (and floor) ruled that the other player only had to call the puny amount and they played the hand to completion.

Personally if I found someone slipping a 10k chip into a stack of 1ks I'd rule that its counted as 1k.

DeV.

coillcam

The chip hiding thing I've seen happen before, €50 Rebuys for 25 I think.

Blinds 1/2k, Anyway player 1 joins our table having just moved table. Player 2 an absolute ass raises to 7K, player 1 has 50K and 88, says "you've only got 20K in total left right" to player 2 who says yeah around that. So player 1 says I raise to 25K. Now player 2 pulls out a stack of 5K chips from behind his 1K and smaller denomination chips and announces I'm all-in with actually 60K in total. Very bad form. In any reputable tourney I am sure he would have been penalised, the hand played "all in" for 7K or something, You are meant to have your largest value chips clearly visible at all times.

I hate this, it's very unsporting and devious.

As far as the OP's hand I don't like it one bit but it's the nature of the game, it happens too often for my liking.

For me I usually say "I have got a good hand" or "call/fold/raise and you'll either find out or not."