What If............Penalty Points question

Shuco

Just wondering what would be situation if the following happened. Hasn’t happened to me yet but could at any time.

From what I can see, you can still receive summons for speeding up to 6 months after being caught.
If I received a summons for speeding in my car 5 months ago, it could happen that I honestly would know whether myself or my wife were driving.
In usual circumstances, points would go to the registered owner if they could not name who was driving. My car is registered in company name. What happens in this case?

keefg

This happened all the time in my last job with the sales reps.

A letter is sent to the company address (reg owner) and they have to reply with the drivers info. The company will put your name down and send it back (which you sign) and you get a fixed penalty in the post.

Not sure what happens if the company doesn't name the driver - never seen that happen, I think by law they have to nominate someone to take the hit.

seamus

I'm not 100% sure, but ultimately someone is responsible for the car - even if it's in a company name.

From what I understand, if the company can't say who was driving at the time (i.e. if they don't have a check-in/out log for the vehicles), then whoever's name is on the VLC gets the points.

I always thought however that "I don't know who was driving" was sufficient defence - provided that you can "prove" your car would be used a lot by different people.

Golferx

A Company cannot be compelled to disclose the identity of a driver and cannot be penalised for failure to do so.

Shuco

seamus wrote:

I'm not 100% sure, but ultimately someone is responsible for the car - even if it's in a company name.

From what I understand, if the company can't say who was driving at the time (i.e. if they don't have a check-in/out log for the vehicles), then whoever's name is on the VLC gets the points.

I always thought however that "I don't know who was driving" was sufficient defence - provided that you can "prove" your car would be used a lot by different people.

The name on VLC is Limited Company Name so therefore where can points go? Surely not the directors......
This car is family car, obviously I don't keep log of who's driving it so it could happen that I genuinely would not know whether it was myself or my wife.
One of the drivers of company vans received summons for "speeding" (think he was doing 50mph in a 40mph zone on 3 lane Dual Carriagway on Naas Road). In this case, we knew who was driving at the time and wrote it on summons. He received the points. I'm talking about a genuine case of not knowing who was driving at the time. (Whether we would have named the driver if we knew it didn't have to be done is another story)

jhegarty

What happens if you don't know who was driving , but can prove it wasn't you (eg. passport stamped saying you where in the states)....

markpb

Shuco wrote:

The name on VLC is Limited Company Name so therefore where can points go? Surely not the directors......

Not sure about Ireland but in England that's definitely the cast. A regional chief of police has points on his license because they couldn't identify the driver of a marked car when it was caught speeding.

DublinDilbert

Yes as far as i know it is the company directors... don't think it has ever happened... also which director gets the points? as by law as limited company must have atleast 2 directors!

I guess the buck has to stop some where, cause every transport company could just use that as a loop hole, "errrrr we don't know who was driving that van/truck that day.... "

RobAMerc

Wasn't there some challenge to the legality speeding fines here ?

As you obliged to sign and return the form or face a fine, you are being pressured into incriminating yourself - which they cannot legally do.

Anyone know if this got off the ground or how it got on?

As for who should take them - 2 points is nothing so whoever gets them doesn't matter - next time one of you get caught the other user should take them.

After all marriage is about sharing no ?

MrPudding

RobAMerc wrote:

Wasn't there some challenge to the legality speeding fines here ?

As you obliged to sign and return the form or face a fine, you are being pressured into incriminating yourself - which they cannot legally do.

Anyone know if this got off the ground or how it got on?

As for who should take them - 2 points is nothing so whoever gets them doesn't matter - next time one of you get caught the other user should take them.

After all marriage is about sharing no ?

I know that in Scotland a number of people challenged points at the beginning using the arguement that having to fill in the form stating who was driving erroded their right to remain silent. That did not last long as a defense.

As another poster mentioned there has been a lot of hassle in the UK over vehicles shared by a pool of drivers. The long and the short of it is the points have to go somewhere, expect when the driver does not have a UK license, in which case nothing happens pointswise but the driver could get summoned to court.

There are people who will take points for you.....

MrP

Shuco

RobAMerc wrote:

Wasn't there some challenge to the legality speeding fines here ?

As you obliged to sign and return the form or face a fine, you are being pressured into incriminating yourself - which they cannot legally do.

Anyone know if this got off the ground or how it got on?

As for who should take them - 2 points is nothing so whoever gets them doesn't matter - next time one of you get caught the other user should take them.

After all marriage is about sharing no ?

Luckily, this is only a hypothetical question.........but it could very well occur some day.

On the subject of legality fines etc. My brother found himself in a very unfair situation.

He was caught speeding in May '06. Garda took details etc and said he would receive a fine which had to be paid etc etc..
In November, he received a summons for not paying the fine. He never received the fine. I spoke with Garda friend of mine who told him to go to Court, explain the story as it happened but problem is that if you go to court, & lose, you MUST get 4 points. My brother was not disputing the fact that he was speeding and was prepared to pay his fine and take his 2 points.
At the court, there were many people who did not receive their fines in post. The fines are no longer sent by registered post and obviously there was a cock up. Guards were fed up of situation because it happens regularly. Judge was p***ed off because it was wasting court time. Judge adjourned case until July because wanted to see what could be done.
In the opinion of my Garda friend, the only legal option was to strike out all of the cases or give 4 points. The Judge does not have discretion of giving original penalty of €80 plus 2 points.
When the case came up again in July, the judge was in a different mood.....gave anyone who attended the court €250 fine and anyone who didn't turn up €800. My brother still doesn't know how many points he'll receive. Some of the people up had solicitor's representing them. They got nowhere. judge wasn't prepared to listen to argument that people should have received fines in post originally.

Seems very wrong.......

Golferx

markpb wrote:

Not sure about Ireland but in England that's definitely the cast. A regional chief of police has points on his license because they couldn't identify the driver of a marked car when it was caught speeding.

Please. This is so ridiculous it's laughable. You really should research such a statement before you post such stuff. Please name and shame the person?

How , in any stretch of the imagination, could the director of a company with hundreds of vehicles be liable to get penalty points for every speeding offence on one of the company's fleet where a driver cannot be identified?

Are you saying the Director (s)/Chief Executive/Secretary, or whoever, of the ESB, could be liable for speeding offences by any of their vehicles?

Or, how about EIRCOM? IS some lad in Australia in danger of getting his licence revoked?

FFS, it would only take 7 offences from a fleet of potentially thousands, for one person to lose his licence, for something he didn't do?


Irish Legislation is so worded than only a "person" can be prosecuted for failing to identify the driver in a speeding prosecution. This "person" has to be the registered owner of the car. The Directors of a company have no obligation whatsoever to disclose the identity of a driver and face no penalty for failure to do so.

markpb

Golferx wrote:

Please. This is so ridiculous it's laughable. You really should research such a statement before you post such stuff. Please name and shame the person?

Subsection (11) provides that unless another person is identified by the registered owner as the driver, it will be assumed that the registered owner was driving the vehicle at the time of the occurrence of the alleged offence. This means that if a company cannot identify the driver who committed the offence, the registered owner of the company vehicle (which may be the company director or secretary) will be the one liable for the offence and who incurs the penalty points and pays the fine.

Linky Document is gone but there's a cache of it on Google.

crosstownk

I'd a situation a few years back similar to this. It was a tossup between to guys as to who was driving the car. Typically, both of them denied all knowledge. I rang the fines office (the number on the fine that arrived in the post) and was told that in the event that a driver could not be identified, then the company would be brought to court with the distinct possibility that a fine (circa €1000) could be dished out. Apparently, the company is responsible for keeping a record of who was driving what - first I'd heard of that. Now I don't know whether the person I spoke with was a Garda or not, but suffice it to say that I heard no more about it! As I said, that was a few years ago when a lot of fines weren't processed (or lost in the system somewhere).

But since then I've been keeping a log of who drives what.

Golferx

I asked to name and shame the supposed Chief Constable with the points on his licence!

@markpb

While you're GOOGLing, can you find one example of a Company Director who has penalty Points because of speeding in one of his company's vehicles?

What about somebody, like AIB, who have leased all their vehicles? The owner of the car is the Leasing company. Are you honestly trying to say a Director of the Leasing company could be liable for a speeding offence by an AIB employee?

MrPudding

Golferx wrote:

Please. This is so ridiculous it's laughable. You really should research such a statement before you post such stuff. Please name and shame the person?

I am not sure if the chief got points but it did get a huge amount of trouble over it. It was all over the news in the UK.

Golferx wrote:

How , in any stretch of the imagination, could the director of a company with hundreds of vehicles be liable to get penalty points for every speeding offence on one of the company's fleet where a driver cannot be identified?

The point is, you should not be in a position where you don't know who is driving you vehicles. I think the basis of it was that too many people were using the old company vehicle as a loophole for speeding. If the director of a company, or at least the fleet manager, gets the points if he can't identify the actual driver then, I am sure you will agree, it is in his best interest to keep accurate logs.

Golferx wrote:

Are you saying the Director (s)/Chief Executive/Secretary, or whoever, of the ESB, could be liable for speeding offences by any of their vehicles?

Or, how about EIRCOM? IS some lad in Australia in danger of getting his licence revoked?

FFS, it would only take 7 offences from a fleet of potentially thousands, for one person to lose his licence, for something he didn't do?

I don't know what the law is in Ireland. Like I said, it is a pretty good incentive for keeping records.

MrP

Golferx

crosstownk wrote:

I'd a situation a few years back similar to this. It was a tossup between to guys as to who was driving the car. Typically, both of them denied all knowledge. I rang the fines office (the number on the fine that arrived in the post) and was told that in the event that a driver could not be identified, then the company would be brought to court with the distinct possibility that a fine (circa €1000) could be dished out. ...............

IMO that was pure scaremongering.

markpb

Golferx wrote:

Are you honestly trying to say a Director of the Leasing company could be liable for a speeding offence by an AIB employee?

Are you honestly trying to say that the government left a huge gaping hole in the RT legislation by allowing anyone in a company car to evade penalty points?

I never said a director has been fined or given points, I said I thought, in the UK, that company directors are responsible for either naming the driver or accepting responsibility. Exactly the same as any other registered owner of a vehicle is responsible.

You do realise company directors have personal liability for lots of things? If you install counterfeit software on your work PC, both you and your boss are legally responsible. If someone has a work-related accident that could have been prevented, the company director can be personally responsible. There have been several instances in Ireland of company directors being served warrants to appear at a court case for work related accidents.

Golferx

markpb wrote:

Are you honestly trying to say that the government left a huge gaping hole in the RT legislation by allowing anyone in a company car to evade penalty points?


.................................

Yes!

markpb wrote:

............I never said a director has been fined or given points, I said I thought, in the UK, that company directors are responsible for either naming the driver or accepting responsibility. Exactly the same as any other registered owner of a vehicle is responsible.


.................................

You did say a Police Chief has points. Who ?

Shuco

markpb wrote:

Are you honestly trying to say that the government left a huge gaping hole in the RT legislation by allowing anyone in a company car to evade penalty points?

There obviously has been a major hole left in legistlation when someone can be brought to court and given 4 points/€250 fine simply because fixed penalty notice was not sent out. Surely these fines should be sent registered post. Someone made the argument to me that people can refuse to accept registered post when expecting a fine and this was reason for not sending fines by registered post. I can't see the current situation as being a solution to this problem. Why can't Garda give "speeding ticket" as before? Crazy........

crosstownk

Golferx wrote:

Are you honestly trying to say a Director of the Leasing company could be liable for a speeding offence by an AIB employee?

The leasing company will simply nominate the company and driver who are leasing the vehicle making, in you example, AIB responsible. There is a formal contract between the lessee and the lessor so it is highly unlikely that the leasing company would be held responsible.

Golferx

crosstownk wrote:

The leasing company will simply nominate the company and driver who are leasing the vehicle making, in you example, AIB responsible. There is a formal contract between the lessee and the lessor so it is highly unlikely that the leasing company would be held responsible.

With all due respect, that is all supposition.

According to the Law, the Registered Owner is supposed to identify the driver. In the case I hypothesized, the Leasing Company is the company who will be asked to identify the driver, not AIB. It doesn't matter what contracts exist between the Leasing Company and AIB .

markpb

Golferx wrote:

With all due respect, that is all supposition.

According to the Law, the Registered Owner is supposed to identify the driver. In the case I hypothesized, the Leasing Company is the company who will be asked to identify the driver, not AIB. It doesn't matter what contracts exist between the Leasing Company and AIB .

Would it not be reasonable to suppose that the leasing company, as registered owners, will have to pay the fine but will recoup it through their contract with AIB?

crosstownk

Golferx wrote:

With all due respect, that is all supposition.

According to the Law, the Registered Owner is supposed to identify the driver. In the case I hypothesized, the Leasing Company is the company who will be asked to identify the driver, not AIB. It doesn't matter what contracts exist between the Leasing Company and AIB .

I'm not sure, but you may have misread my post. What I stated is that the leasing company DO nominate the company who are leasing the vehicle. If there is a dispute as to who was driving on behalf of the client company, then that is the client company's problem and not the leasing company's.

In the event that no driver can be identified, the leasing company will not be held responsible. The legal leasing contract should absolve the leasing company of responsibility.

Golferx

markpb wrote:

Would it not be reasonable to suppose that the leasing company, as registered owners, will have to pay the fine but will recoup it through their contract with AIB?

The thread is about Penalty Points, my posts were about Penalty Points, why change the subject?

Golferx

crosstownk wrote:

I'm not sure, but you may have misread my post. What I stated is that the leasing company DO nominate the company who are leasing the vehicle. If there is a dispute as to who was driving on behalf of the client company, then that is the client company's problem and not the leasing company's.

In the event that no driver can be identified, the leasing company will not be held responsible. The legal leasing contract should absolve the leasing company of responsibility.

So Garda Jimmy sends summons to P Points Ltd, who then complete the form nominating XYZ Ltd as the driver?

Nah, it doesn't work like that.

The summons dies. It's a loophole and no person can get penalty points, if a car is registered to a Company and the driver cannot be identified.


(There was a famous case a few years ago, in England, when Manchester United refused to identify the driver of a car they had on lease, after it was spotted committing an offence. Nobody got any penalty points for that.)

markpb

Golferx wrote:

So Garda Jimmy sends summons to P Points Ltd, who then complete the form nominating XYZ Ltd as the driver? Nah, it doesn't work like that.

Have you got a link or is that supposition?

There was a famous case a few years ago, in England, when Manchester United refused to identify the driver of a car they had on lease, after it was spotted committing an offence. Nobody got any penalty points for that.

Got a link for this?

Golferx

Links?

Nah, you'll have to Google them for yourself!

crosstownk

Golferx wrote:

So Garda Jimmy sends summons to P Points Ltd, who then complete the form nominating XYZ Ltd as the driver?

Nah, it doesn't work like that.

Errm.............Yes it does. I work for a vehicle leasing company. We nominate companies and drivers every day of the week.

Golferx

crosstownk wrote:

Errm.............Yes it does. I work for a vehicle leasing company. We nominate companies and drivers every day of the week.

My point was that the system falls down if you fail to do so.

Why do you nominate drivers when you have no obligation to do so?

crosstownk

Golferx wrote:

My point was that the system falls down if you fail to do so.

Why do you nominate drivers when you have no obligation to do so?

I nominate drivers for one simple reason - they are the ones that commited the offence. It's not my job to get them off the hook, and, if such a loophole does indeed exist they can do it themselves. While I doubt it, it may well do - the example I stated earlier (post #14) could well be proof of your theory.

EDIT: @Golferx - this link is in support of your opinion > http://www.rte.ie/pda/news/2004/0928/1023241.html
Granted the article is 3 years old, and the situation may have been rectified since, but then again.......

Golferx

crosstownk wrote:

I nominate drivers for one simple reason - they are the ones that commited the offence. It's not my job to get them off the hook, ....................................

It's not your job, either, to convict the person you are nominating of a motoring offence, but you don't seem to mind that.


BTW, you have no "proof" the person you are nominating was actually the driver of the car at the time of the offence, I presume? Hardly fair, now, is it? I presume they are then guilty until proven innocent.



The process of forcing someone to nominate an errand driver is wrong. We have a system of Law which is supposed to do this. I know of people with points on their licence simply because they would not nominate the actual driver of the car.

Darragh29

I know someone who tried the "I can't remember who was driving that car" as a defence and had a photo of the driver (who turned out to be himself!), taken by the speed camera, produced in court as evidence. Got 4 penalty points and a 600 Euro fine...

JSPTD

I'm in very same situation as described by OP. Car registered in Company Name. Received speeding ticket after being caught by GATSO van. Unsure of who was driving.

1) Should I say that I don't know who was driving?
2) Should I toss a coin between myself and my Wife?
3) Should I say one of our Polish driver's was driving at the time and send copy of his Polish licence?

Blitzkrieger

Shuco wrote: »

if you go to court, & lose, you MUST get 4 points.

Was talking to a solicitor who was hoping somebody would take a case based on that point. If you contest a ticket and lose you automatically get a harsher punishment, but under European law it's illegal to punish someone for trying to prove they're innocent. If I had a few grand to spend on legal fees....

godtabh

JSPTD wrote: »

3) Should I say one of our Polish driver's was driving at the time and send copy of his Polish licence?

Your Polish driver wasnt driving

Sizzler

Sergei was doing a spot of painting for me and he nipped out to the shops in the car....sorry lads I dont know where he is now though

JSPTD

kearnsr wrote: »

You do know who was driving

Wrong!.........I'm 90% sure that I wasn't.

Your wife wasnt driving (is she even insured to do so?)

Wrong: She is insured and I'm 90% sure she was.

Your Polish driver wasnt driving

Right!

Gregor Samsa

Blitzkrieger wrote: »

Was talking to a solicitor who was hoping somebody would take a case based on that point. If you contest a ticket and lose you automatically get a harsher punishment, but under European law it's illegal to punish someone for trying to prove they're innocent. If I had a few grand to spend on legal fees....

Except it works the other way. The penalty for being caught speeding is 4 points. You get a 2 point deduction for not contesting. So the punishment isn't increased for going to court, it's decreased for not going. He won't be a very popular solicitor if he gets that policy removed.

Back to the original topic - the penalty point website says:

The Act also provides that unless another person is identified as the driver it will be assumed that the registered owner was driving the vehicle at the time of the occurrence of the alleged offence.

(http://www.penaltypoints.ie/faq.php#generalqueries : Q. What is a fixed charge?)

So this is saying that if you don't (or can't) explicitly identify another driver, the registered owner of the vehicle gets the points by default. I'm not sure how this affects companies/leased cars etc, but it seems to answer the question in regards to private cars.

godtabh

JSPTD wrote: »

Right!

Sorry I missed the unsure who was driving part. post edited

R.O.R

phutyle wrote: »

So this is saying that if you don't (or can't) explicitly identify another driver, the registered owner of the vehicle gets the points by default. I'm not sure how this affects companies/leased cars etc, but it seems to answer the question in regards to private cars.

From what I've been lead to understand, it is the Company Directors or Secretary who gets the points. If the car is registered to a leasing company then it is one of the Leasing Company directors who gets the points.

However, we did recently have a case go to court. The nomination had been filled in and the driver was willing to accept the points & fine, but the nomination went missing in the post. The Judge dismissed the case against the leasing company as it definately wasn't the leasing company speeding, as far as he is aware companies cannot drive and therefore cannot speed.

I wouldn't like to contest this on a regular basis though. Company policy here is to contact the driver of the vehicle and check it was them driving at the time, only ever had one person who wouldn't nominate as he said it wasn't him - but we got the photo in from the Gardai as conclusive proof.

Also had one where the driver's sister was over for the weekend from Mexico City (or at least that's what he told me), so I filled in her details and posted it back.

JSPTD

Some time ago, we sent back forms nominating drivers which resulted in them getting points. In this case, I'm not 100% sure as to who was driving although sure enough as not to cause a divorce in the house.
While trying to decide on what I must do, I enquired from two garda friends of mine to see if it would be possible to get clearer photo. Both of them put the idea of whether it was one of our Polish Employees driving. They said that in most cases it's only people who are being honest that are being screwed. People who lie through their teeth are getting away completely free.
One of them had a number of people in court last week with various excuses. They all got away with probation act........no points.
It's not right if we're not all playing by the same rules.

Golferx

R.O.R wrote: »

From what I've been lead to understand, it is the Company Directors or Secretary who gets the points. If the car is registered to a leasing company then it is one of the Leasing Company directors who gets the points.

.............................

I don't know who has told you that but it's 100% false.
How, in God's name, could "one of the Leasing Company directors" be liable for points on his/her license ? If that was the case then the directors of AVIS, EUROPCAR, HERTZ, or any of the Corporate Leasing companies would have been banned from driving long ago. It's such a ridiculous idea.

The Law as it's written is manifestly unfair in imposing penalty points on people who have done nothing wrong, they just happen to be the registered owner of a car. The principal of Law is supposed to be fairness with everyone supposed to be innocent until proven otherwise. This law is the opposite.

Please find me one, just one, reference to a Director of a Leasing company getting p points for a speeding offence in one of their cars?

Finally, IT IS NOT POSSIBLE TO FORCE A COMPANY TO IDENTIFY an errand driver. It's a loophole in the Law.

As for someone in Administration in a Leasing Company filling in details of drivers caught smacks of unfairness in my book. I wouldn't, in my conscience, hang anyone in such a way. Good Policing woul have such people stopped at the point and time of the infraction, not sending some sh1tty fine a few months down the line.

I would seek Legal advice about what you're doing. If my Leasing company did that, they would lose a customer.

R.O.R

Golferx wrote: »

I don't know who has told you that but it's 100% false.
How, in God's name, could "one of the Leasing Company directors" be liable for points on his/her license ? If that was the case then the directors of AVIS, EUROPCAR, HERTZ, or any of the Corporate Leasing companies would have been banned from driving long ago. It's such a ridiculous idea.

I was told this information by Directors of Corporate Leasing companies with the largest fleet in Ireland, 3rd largest Fleet in Ireland and where I am at the moment. This information dates back to meetings between the major leasing companies and the Gardai when the Penalty Points were introduced.

Clauses in the contracts between leasing companies and customers allow for the nomination of driver's for speeding offences, otherwise the leasing company would end up with all the fines and driver's would be getting off scot free.

Golferx

That was just scaremongering. No director of any company can be penalised. It cannot happen and it hasn't happened.

w.r.t. fines? I'd pass them on, if I was you, but I would not give any drivers' details.

R.O.R

Golferx wrote: »

That was just scaremongering. No director of any company can be penalised. It cannot happen and it hasn't happened.

w.r.t. fines? I'd pass them on, if I was you, but I would not give any drivers' details.

The back of the speeding fine has a nomination for who was driving at the time of the offence. After checking with who we think was driving at the time and confirming who was driving at the time, that nomination is filled in. The fine is then re-issued directly to the driver. Points are not applied at that point, and if the driver wants to contest the fine they can do. Only a name and address is supplied - not a driver's licence number.

Golferx

From http://audgen.irlgov.ie/documents/annualreports/2003/Chapter7.pdf.

Report from Comptroller and Auditor General

Detections involving company cars
The Gardaí reported that there had been 235 cases where vehicles intercepted were in company
ownership and where the penalty points accruing to the drivers of these vehicles could not be allocated to
specific driver files as nomination forms had not been received from companies in respect of the detected
offences.
I enquired as to how this situation has arisen with regard to drivers of company cars.
The Accounting Officer stated that under the penalty point system as set out in the Road Traffic Act
2002, payments can only be accepted where the payment is accompanied by the original Fixed Charge
Notice (the format of which is prescribed in Regulations) duly completed, including the driver’s licence
number. This is to ensure that penalty points are recorded on the driver licence record. The issue of
company vehicles was referred to the Office of the DPP by the Gardaí and his Office directed that
companies could not be prosecuted for a speeding offence, as it was a driver offence. Therefore, in
circumstances where a company, as the registered owner of a vehicle, ignores a nomination notice, a
summons is not issued by the Garda Fixed Penalty Office.

At the very end it points out the following difficulty

•
Inability to take appropriate action against drivers of company cars

So. If you fail to identify the driver of a company registered car, no penalty points may be imposed on any director or individual of the company.

JSPTD

So are you saying that I should bin the fixed notice or return it stating that I do not know who was driving at the time.
I spoke with solicitor about it. He asked how many points had probable driver got? I said none. He said I'd have to nominate somebody because, saying I don't know would not work. I felt that if driver had quite a few points, he would be prepared to look at it differently.

Golferx

He said I'd have to nominate somebody because, saying I don't know would not work. I felt that if driver had quite a few points, he would be prepared to look at it differently.

I fail to see what difference the number of points a driver has already accumulated makes.

If you are in admin in a Leasing company you do not know and could not be expected to know who was driving a particular vehicle at any given time.

Speed cameras are, in general, a lazy man's way of tackling a problem. I have a problem with the way the fines from them are being administered and I would have great difficulty in helping administer such a flawed system.

JSPTD

I know that the ammount of points held has nothing to do with it. I felt solicitor was thinking there's not much point in fighting it when there's no real risk of getting near losing licence time.

In this case, I'm director of company. Vehicle is registered in Company name. Either myself or my wife were driving it (Almost 90% sure that it was her). I've already nominated one employee and one brother on previous occasion when they were driving over the speed limit. I've been told by numerous people that I need not have done so. That's why I'm enquiring about this situation.

Jomcc

Golferx,
That report quoted is 2003 Annual report. Is there any fear that law has been corrected since 2003?