Comparison of gun ownership laws internationally

Snickers Man

OK, I know I'm taking a risk starting this one up after a related thread ended in a permaban but I have a simple question the answer to which I could research myself but life is too short and anyway, maybe the knowledge and experience of those here present could hasten things.

I want to know the latitude which the LAWS of democracies grant to gun owners. I find there is a lot of disingenuous cant when people start talking about gun laws so I will try to be as specific as possible in my question.

Which democracies allow their citizens to walk down the public highway carrying a loaded handgun?

This is something you are NOT allowed do in Ireland, although you are allowed own a gun under licensed restrictions. My understanding is that the spirit of the law here is that you are allowed own a gun provided its primary purpose is NOT to shoot at other human beings.

By public highway I mean any public area where people are likely to meet and mingle: residential streets, shopping malls, petrol stations etc etc. I don't mean shooting ranges, which are for a specific purpose, or farmland or areas of forestry where legitimate hunting is taking place.

And I know there are those who say you can kill a person with a shotgun just as effectively as with a pistol (which is true) but one is unlikely to carry a loaded shotgun on their person while going down the shops just in case. Carrying a loaded hand gun on the public highway is most likely to be for the purposes of self defence (or offence) and not for the more challenging types of hunting that some have referred to.

I guess what I really want to find out is how closely OUR gun laws comply with the international legal norm. I'm not out to bash the US, or to label people as gun nuts.

I see no reasons why the answers to this question can not be presented civilly, factually and with a view to informing readers.

Terry

Moved from AH to somewhere people might actually have the right answers.

Sparks

Moved back to AH because the Shooting Forum specifically prohibts this topic in its charter...

Terry

I see that now.
Sorry about that, Sparks.

Sparks

To give some info to the OP;

Obviously the US.
Also Switzerland.
Ireland doesn't, but in a roundabout and somewhat gray way; The Offensive Weapons and Firearms Act 1990 prohibits the carrying of offensive weapons in a public place without good reason, the definitions of "offensive weapon" and "good cause" being left up to the courts ultimately, but to the arresting officer on the ground.

There is no law which specifically prohibits the carrying of a firearm, loaded or otherwise, in a public place - most laws in this area refer to "offensive weapons" and let the courts and gardai do the defining. Also, your firearms certificate may count as good cause - if you're driving your rifle in a case in the boot to the range, for example, your membership of the rifle club and your firearms cert (which you are obligated to carry with the firearm at all times) would count as good cause to any reasonable person.

If you had a firearm on public transport in the same way or were walking through a public place with one for the same reason.... well... that's pretty much down to the Garda you run into. There is a Road Traffic Act prohibiting the carriage of offensive weapons on public transport (buses, taxis), and what ever company rules are in force as well.

However, I think the OP was specifically referring to the ownership, carriage, possession and use of firearms for self-defence; this is not permitted in Ireland. You will not be granted a firearms certificate for self-defence or defence of property in this state. You also have to fulfill a few other preconditions - you have to have a good reason for needing the firearm, you have to have somewhere to use it safely, you have to not be disqualified from holding a certificate (there are a dozen things that disqualify you from being too young to being of unsound mind or uneven temperment), and you have to have secure storage for the firearm (a requirement which varys on a case to case basis), plus any other preconditions the local gardai apply on a case to case basis.

Sparks

I should probably add that there have been a very, very, very, very few cases where a PPW licence was issued to people over the past 30-odd years (and we're talking less than a dozen people in that timeframe from the gossip I've heard from gardai; I don't think anyone knows for certain as such things tend to be kept very quiet for obvious and not-so-obvious reasons). (PPW licences are the Irish equivalent to the US concealed carry licences). They were *very* prevelant in Northern Ireland though, with hundreds if not thousands of such licences granted there in the past 30 years.

rrpc

Snickers Man wrote:

Which democracies allow their citizens to walk down the public highway carrying a loaded handgun?

I think you will find that there are very few democracies that allow such freedom (if freedom is the right word).

Carrying a loaded firarm (of any kind) in a public place implies a need to do such a thing. Apart from personal protection (again a very contentious subject because of the difficulty in establishing such a need) and law enforcement, there are very few good reasons to do so.

Even in Switzerland, there are specific conditions under which (and only under which) you can carry a loaded firearm. Militia members (effectively a reserve force) are permitted to carry their issued firearms to and from training, but are not permitted to carry ammunition.

Snickers Man

rrpc wrote:

I think you will find that there are very few democracies that allow such freedom (if freedom is the right word).

That's my guess. But I'm curious to know what others, apart from the US, do so. Essentially I am trying to find out this information and make it publicly available and I thought simply asking people was as good a way as any.

rrpc wrote:

Even in Switzerland, there are specific conditions under which (and only under which) you can carry a loaded firearm. Militia members (effectively a reserve force) are permitted to carry their issued firearms to and from training, but are not permitted to carry ammunition.

I thought that was the case too.


It is my suspicion that the US is the only normal democracy which allows its citizens carry a loaded firearm on the public highway. But I don't want to state it as a fact until I know for sure.

And even then, lest I offend any transAtlantic viewers, I would only do so for the purposes of a debate about our own gun laws. America has got 300 million people of its own to debate what should be theirs.

yank_in_eire

In the US you could legally walk down a public highway with a loaded handgun provided that it is displayed "in plain sight". That doesn't mean waving it around for all to see, but carrying in a visible holster shouldn't be a problem provided you appear to be of sound mind and aren't acting in a threatening manner toward anyone.
I personally think it's better to err on the side of caution though, and keep it unloaded and cased until you're ready to shoot. Most states don't allow discharging of a firearm within a certain distance from a public road. Where I'm from that was 300ft., but I'm sure it varies depending on where you are.

rrpc

Snickers Man wrote:

It is my suspicion that the US is the only normal democracy....

Oops! What's a normal democracy?

I might have to rethink my answer.....

connundrum

South Africa also allows it, but again.. normal might be a bit of a stretch.

Rovi

Israel too, has/had plenty of people walking about openly carrying all sorts of hardware, but their geographic location and local/international politics make their situation very specific to them.

Manic Moran

rrpc wrote:

I think you will find that there are very few democracies that allow such freedom (if freedom is the right word).

I'll lay bets there are even fewer dictatorships which allow it.

However, as mentioned above, it is important to distinguish between loaded and unloaded. In many US states, you can carry concealed or openly a loaded firearm, but if you cycle down the city street with an unloaded collapsible SIG-552 slung on your back, you can expect to be having a word with the cops. On the other hand, such activity is completely unremarkable in Switzerland, but you won't see anyone with a loaded sidearm in a holster. I recall reading a book named "The Ballydoolin Privates" about life in the FCA back in the 1950s/60s, where they mention they used to stack their Lee Enfields outside the pub after a day at the range. (Back in those days, FCA men would take their weapon home with them)
[Further edit] Upon reflection, I believe the Home Guard of Norway follows the Swiss model as well, though it's less pervasive.

There is provision in Canadian law for people who work in wilderness areas such as foresters, oil-rig workers, and so on, who aren't out and about for hunting, to carry large-calibre sidearms or rifles on the job. As a result, you'll see them in the local town on their lunch breaks, or whatnot, but those are usually fairly rural areas where most everyone has a gun anyway, and so it's not an issue of remark.

[Edit]While I think of it, I'm fairly sure that parts of Australia are 'You can be armed without needing a permit' as well, to deal with all the nasty critters that inhabit that place's rural areas. However, ever since Port Arthur, they've been restricted as to just what they can carry. Again, it's cultural. a guy walking into the pub in Koala-bong, population 1000 with a rifle on his shoulder is not going to attract attention, but a guy walking into a bar in Sydney will.

NTM