Eternal Life

Catari Jaguar

Ok, I have studied Christology and have a diploma in Religious studies so am not completely ignorant. It's also made me stop believing in Catholicism and organised religion and find a truth of sorts.

During my Christology course we were discussing Heaven, and it seems to be Heaven on Earth and not some other place.
Hell doesn't seem to be mentioned, and if it is it seems to be a personal prison and not some pitchforks and flames thing.

I have a few questions:

Firstly, Where has this idea of say, clouds or another dimension or even a future paradise on Earth (as Jehovah's Witnesses believe in) come from?
Where did the flames of the Devil in damnation idea come from?

Secondly,The Sheol of Judaism, does it apply to Christians? Is it ceasing to exist full stop. Or is it like being conscious but just in a darkness or limbo for eternity, like Hades? To me the latter is the scariest thing I've ever heard. I heard Sheol was the punishment of Hell, just not existing anymore. If Sheol does damn me to a Lake of Fire, will I die there, or will my soul eternally be in that Lake?
I know Catholic take Sheol as literally meaning "death" but again, is that a made up thing...?

Thirdly, say, I do go to this "Heaven" eternal life, if I want to leave it after say a billion trillion years, can I choose Sheol and non existence-ness. Can I be resurrected from Sheol?


I just want to let you know that the idea of ETERNAL life scares me a lot. I don't like it, I don't want it. I know most people believe in a Religion because of a promise of Afterlife but eternity of an unknown just makes me so worked up I want to vomit.

Also say Paradise is an amazing place where you are full of love and happiness, then what do you do all day? I mean, no need for family and friends for support, good times, love etc because you already have it. No sins or badness is also very boring imo. And is it really servitude to The Father? I don't like that either.

I know this is all over the place. But it's confusing to me, and of concern that I had no say in being put on this Earth and seemingly no escape.

Fanny Cradock

Lil Kitten wrote:

Firstly, Where has this idea of say, clouds or another dimension or even a future heaven on Earth as Jehovah's Witnesses believe in come from?
Where did the flames of the Devil in damnation idea come from?

Probably the same place where the idea of God being an old chap in pristine robes and a white beard came from. As far as I know, there is no Biblical basis for this. In similar manner, I would say it more likely that it was someone's notional idea that heaven must be like the clouds because that seemed beautiful or correct to them. The answer is that no one knows for sure.

Lil Kitten wrote:

Secondly,The Sheoul of Judaism, does it apply to Christians? Is it ceasing to exist full stop. Or is it like being conscious but just in a darkness or limbo for eternity? To me the latter is the scariest thing I've ever heard. I heard Sheoul was the punishment or Hell, just not existing anymore.

I'm not too familiar with concepts behind Sheol, but it is possible that it is similar to the Catholic notion of Limbo, which, admittedly, my knowledge is also a tad sketchy upon. Evangelical Christianity wouldn't subscribe to the notion of there being a limbo, or Sheol, for that matter.

Lil Kitten wrote:

Thirdly, say, I do go to this eternal life, if I want to leave it after say a billion trillion years, can I choose Sheoul and non existenceness. Can I be ressurected from Sheoul?

Well, it is an understandable fear. But you are already limiting the idea of heaven by making it subject to time. It is probably impossible for anyone to truly consider the implications, but I imagine that there is no time in Heaven. Bearing this in mind, it would be unreasonable to assume that there is a beginning and an end to eternity (or to God). In other words, the smallest imaginable passage of time would have the same value as the largest, i.e. no vale.

Lil Kitten wrote:

I just want to let you know that the idea of ETERNAL life scares me a lot. I don't like it, I don't want it. I know most people believe in a Religion because of a promise of Afterlife but eternity of an unknown just makes me so worked up I want to vomit.

Also say Paradise is an amazing place where you are full of love and happiness, then what do you do all day? I mean, no need for family and friends for support, good times, love etc because you already have it. No sins or badness is also very boring imo. And is it really servitude to The Father? i don't like that either.

Again, you concerns are held by many. But there are a few presuppositions in you post.

Firstly, you again mention time when you ask what people would do 'all day'. To me this implies that there is a time line in heaven - a day and a night, a week, a year and so on. In thinking like this you could easily imagine having a 'good' day or a 'bad' day. This limits the idea of heaven.

Secondly, who said there would be no such thing as family, friends good times and love? Maybe I misunderstand you point here, but that is exactly what I imagine heaven to be. You become bored if something becomes tedious or wearingly dull. I don't think this notion could exist in a perfect world. For that matter, apathy also couldn't exist.

Thirdly, as for there being no badness, well, that was the whole point of Jesus doing what he did. You imply that badness - a little harmless fun - is required for excitement. Something to counterbalance the saccharine sweetness of goody two shoes heaven! But I would think that we do not understand anything about the true and horrid nature of badness if we think in such a way. And I admit that I do (incorrectly) think it good to be bad sometimes. From God's perspective the idea is to completely expunge badness, not leave a little lying about the place. Probably much in the same way a doctor tries to destroy all the cancerous cells in a body, not jut 80%.

Finally, if you are in love with someone it is likely that you want to be surrounded by them day and night. Eventually this feeling of love mellows and may even turn sour. However, if God is all that is good - something with our fickle and fading love can't stand up to - surely this is something you want to be around in perpetuity?

For what it is worth, I used to think what is the point in a place were you have no choice but to praise God for 24 'heaven hours' for all of eternity. Listening to some of the language out there (I would have grown up with this language) it is a reasonable assumption to reach, and it sounds like hell. But I don't think it will be like that at all.



Ugh, I've written too much. Apologies!

JimiTime

it takes faith to know that what God has planned you are going to like. Don't be anxious, just be faithful. He knows what we need, don't get hung up about it. Thats my 2 cent anyway. i personally, love the idea of being in the love of our Father eternally. For all we know we will be involved in creating races with him in other galaxies; thats based on nothing by the way. Its just trying to point out that we could be doing anything. But whatever it is, if we have faith, we know its gonna be good:)

As for hell. i think it plainly states that the lake of fire is 'the second death from which there is no resurrection'. John could not be plainer. Torturing 'souls' for eternity does not tie in with either our father or his son Jesus Christ. Definately no limbo. I think trying to get to know God and Jesus can expel alot of the bad doctrine out there. I would compare it to someone saying of someone you know, 'he said, I hate the blacks'. Now if you know your friend is not a racist, you know he must be talking about something other than people. You later find out that he was speaking in context of the black wine gums. You never doubted, but those who didn't know your friend thought they had a pretty strong case. The bible is not the ends, its only a part of the means, along with prayer and holy spirit.