Keeping my second job a secret from my employer

vector

I have a 9-5 desk job monday-friday for Company A Ltd, I've just started a second job at the weekends for Company B Ltd, I understand the respective owners don't like each other for some reason.

Will my Company A have any way of knowing (via the revenue commissioners) that I also work for Company B Ltd

pow wow

So long as your certificate of tax credits goes to your home address and not your employer (it's unusual for it to go to your employer to be fair but some people have that as their address) then they won't find out. Its worth ringing Revenue to get your tax credits split between the two employers or fill out a 12A form with the new employer's details and send it in with details of how you want the credits split.

kittenkiller

Just be sure tha t your contract for Co. A doesn't have a clause about "contrast of interests".
Could be a cause for instand dismissal if they do and they find out about it.
You never know who may have friends or old colleagues in Co. B.

Wishbone Ash

kittenkiller wrote:

Just be sure tha t your contract for Co. A doesn't have a clause about "contrast of interests"

(Conflicts of Interest?) Even if there are no commercial conflicts of interest, some contracts have a clause about "serving two masters". I also work for two employers. The jobs are totally unrelated requiring different qualifications. Both employers are unofficially aware of this but I have never been approached about it. My contract with one of them does have a part relating to conflicts of interest, but it doesn't really apply, in a commercial sense, in my case.

kittenkiller

Wishbone Ash wrote:

(Conflicts of Interest?)

Thanks,
I'm still asleep.

Even if the second job didn't conflict with the first, breaking your contract like that could lead to you not having a leg to stand on should there be disciplinery action taken against you for any other reason.

RainyDay

Some employers will have a clause in your contract which obliges you to notify them of any second job. This covers their obligations under the Working Hours directive to ensure that you aren't working more than the legal limit (48 hours?) per week.

Wishbone Ash

RainyDay wrote:

to ensure that you aren't working more than the legal limit (48 hours?) per week.

The legal limit refers to the amount of hours that an employee can be forced to work, not what the employee may wish to work by choice.

(There are execptions in certain occupations e.g. truck drivers).

RainyDay

Wishbone Ash wrote:

The legal limit refers to the amount of hours that an employee can be forced to work, not what the employee may wish to work by choice.

Are you certain about this? These lawyers seem to think differently;

Consider the Working Time Act. Now employers have to make sure no employee works for more than an average of 48 hours per week, including working for a second different employer. This means finding out if employees have a second job, and if so what number of hours they are working per week.

leeroybrown

The law says that an employer 'shall not permit' an employee to work more than an average of 48 hours per week. For most employees this is averaged over a four month period. This 48 hour period does not include any breaks or leave which pushes the potential length of an average week up by quite a bit.

Wishbone Ash

RainyDay wrote:

Are you certain about this? These lawyers seem to think differently;

AFAIK The Organisation of Working Time Act does not apply to employees whose hours of work (apart from a minimum set by an employer) are determined by that employee. Wouldn't an employee who takes a second job be determining their own hours as they are doing so by choice? I'm open to correction.

(I do my second job on a casual basis, i.e. I decide on an ad hoc basis whether I want the work or not).

leeroybrown wrote:

The law says that an employer 'shall not permit' an employee to work more than an average of 48 hours per week

What about overtime? In my place of work there has been excessive amounts of overtime available for the past 9 years. Many employees would average way over 48 hours per week and some staff do more hours in overtime each week than their 'normal' hours. (Perhaps we have an exemption - I must go through the Act in detail).

seamus

Wishbone Ash wrote:

AFAIK The Organisation of Working Time Act does not apply to employees whose hours of work (apart from a minimum set by an employer) are determined by that employee. Wouldn't an employee who takes a second job be determining their own hours as they are doing so by choice? I'm open to correction.

Only if that second job was in a self-employed capacity. If the person is a PAYE employee for two different employers, then the organisation of working time act applies - no more than 48 hours across both jobs.

Your certificate of tax credits is sent to you and to your employer(s). In order for your tax to be correctly calculated, one or both employers need to be aware of eachother's existence, otherwise you will probably end up underpaying your tax, and you'll be screwed if you get audited.

Wishbone Ash

seamus wrote:

Only if that second job was in a self-employed capacity. If the person is a PAYE employee for two different employers, then the organisation of working time act applies - no more than 48 hours across both jobs.

:eek: I'll have to hold my hands up on that then!

seamus wrote:

Your certificate of tax credits is sent to you and to your employer(s). In order for your tax to be correctly calculated, one or both employers need to be aware of eachother's existence, otherwise you will probably end up underpaying your tax, and you'll be screwed if you get audited.

In my second job, I get no tax credits and pay tax at the higher rate on the full amount (and PRSI).

seamus

Wishbone Ash wrote:

In my second job, I get no tax credits and pay tax at the higher rate on the full amount (and PRSI).

Yeah, I've no idea on the specifics. I had always assumed that depending on your salaries, then you tax the credits for one salary, and take the hit on the other.

I'm not sure how it works for two relatively low-paid jobs however - Imagine doing two jobs, earning 18k P.A each. On one job, you'd pay a little tax at 20% and on the other, you pay tax on all of your earnings at 20% (and maybe a little a 40%). I don't know how the employers work it out - I would assume that they have to agree between themselves how much tax they take off.